aerobic vs. anaerobic

The "fat burn" program on the elliptical says that my target heart rate is 129.  However, my heart rate generally stays between 150-160 bpm, and I feel fine, I sweat quite a bit but I can breath comfortably through my nose.  When I hit 161, the machine tells me to slow down to reduce my heart rate, but it will not go below 150, even when I am going so slow that the machine thinks that the workout is paused ("RESUME WORKOUT!").

Since I've read alot of you saying that the numbers on the machine are just a guideline, are there any kind of physical indicators that you are going into anaerobic mode?  If anyone knows, I'd love to hear, so I can feel justified in ignoring that obnoxious machine.

you start to pant, cause you don't have enough oxygen :)

Paraphrasing from my handy book from ACE, anaerobic threshold is between 50 and 85% of maximum effort.  Which is a big range. 

During aerobic exercise - muscle cells use fatty acids and glucose to produce ATP as long as the cell is aerobic.  Since we all know fat is 9 calories vs. the 4 in carbs and protein, aerobic production of ATP (energy) yields more ATP because fat is being metabolized.  Byproducts of aerobic production are CO2 and water.

Anaerobic production of ATP relies heavily on glucose alone.  Two anaerobic byproducts are lactic acid and heat.  Lactic acid buildup can cause the 'burning' sensation and very quick fatigue.  And absolutely true what saro said about panting, your muscles will want more oxygen so they signal the brain to breathe more, potentially causing hyperventilation. 

Don't know if that helps or not - but keep in mind the 50-85% deal, watch for lactic acid buildup, getting overheated, and breathing too hard.  :)

Does this machine let you plug in your age???  I see from your profile you are 21 - so your "max" rate is 199 and 85% of that is about 170 so 170 is as high as you should go - using the general guidelines.  I say if you are staying around 150 - 160 you are safe. 

I always thought the harder I worked and the higher my heart rate was the better "fat burning" I was doing, but my heart rate monitor that tells how many cals I burn and the % of those that are fat I find its the opposite.  At my age my max heart rate is 157 or 90% and when I get there and maintain that for any length of time my HRM says I burned 40% fat - but when I work out and stay in the low zone (105- 121) it tells me 60% of the cals burned were fat.  So although I might burn more cals at a faster rate the % of those aren't as high in fat.  Doesn't make much sense to me either.

Yeah, the machine has me punch in my age, so I guess when it tells me to slow down it's so that I stay in the fat-burning zone.  It's just hard sometimes to go so slow, when my body feels fine.

My trainer told me that the higher you get your heart rate, the more calories you burn and not to worry about anaerobic levels, you may be burning slightly less fat proportionately, but you are burning more calories overall. Of course, do not get uncomfortable. That is why intervals are good.

If this is incorrect info, please let me know!

this post leads me to a question maybe someone can answer...i huff and puff a lot when i exercise. i mean i can carry it on for 45 minutes or so which is a good indication im not dying lol but is huffing and puffing the same as panting? 

Hoping to revitalize this thread - I still am unclear if anaerobic is good or bad - is it something to am for.  The original poster of this thread experienced the thing I am right now - the target heart the elliptical says is good for my fat burning is never maintained Even if I slow down to the point just before the machine pauses I still can not get my heart rate down - now I inhale thru my nose and do a well effortful (not even sure thats a word but hopefully you get my meaning) push of exhale out my mouth (o shape to the mouth during exhale)  Everytime I push myself to go longer I do feel a bit winded but just starting out with in 5-10 mins Im already in the anaerobic - Please if any one has a simple explain with the anaerobic meaning and its effects it would be greatly appreciated - best wishes to all :o)

anaerobic metabolism is the body making energy without the use of oxygen, it is a high end workout and very strenuous!

First you need to know your true Max Heart rate. THis can be hard to do if you are not a regular excersiser.  Any time you are above about 85% max you are anerobic and this will burn huge quantities of glycogen.

breathing is one indidcator, if you are anerobic you will not be able to talk as you excersise and if you are anerobic you will tire very very quickly as you use up all the glycogen in your body.

this is generally not an area the average athelete works in as is manly used as a way to increase your time to exaushtion, as in sprinting.

I wouldn't trust those machines monitors buy yourself a good polar monitor instead

Greata - thank you for your response and suggestion :o) best wishes

I'd never thought about these things before stumbling on this post so thanks for the info! I always assumed the faster my heart rate and the more I was sweating the better my workout. Hmmm!

I read about this in "younger next year" the more you can get yourself in anarobic,75 to  85% the more your body will burn calories in a continuous basis because of all the fine muscle building, versus just burning calories during your workout. I of course am no expert but it made alot of scense.

I find I work out best at 70 -75% which puts me at 141-146...I am not comfortable with 80% (151) for very long.  I am 55, about 35 lbs overwgt, and have 2 leaky heart valves...but I still manage to do 20 min on the elliptical level 7, 12 minutes on the lifecycle level 3, 30 min at 3.5mph on the treadmill, and 30-45 min of strength training 4 times a week....LOL so I must be burning off something...anarobic or areobic...just so long as it goes!

When your heart rate is really high you take your self out of fat burning zone and into just a calorie burning zone. The machine will tell you to slow because it uses a preset fromula from the factory. It doesn't take into account your fitness level. if you are more experienced your target heart rate will br higher than the average joe. The better in shape you are the harder you will have to work to get your heart up to your fat burning range. if you can't seem to get your heart rate down into that zone you were pushing too hard.

going really fast on the cardio machines doesn't always equal more fat loss. I always tell my clients slow and steady always wins the race.

you will not reach an anaerobic activity doing cardio, your body doesn't work like that.

Original Post by bmorcerf:

My trainer told me that the higher you get your heart rate, the more calories you burn and not to worry about anaerobic levels, you may be burning slightly less fat proportionately, but you are burning more calories overall. Of course, do not get uncomfortable. That is why intervals are good.

If this is incorrect info, please let me know!

 If your working in the anerobic range, your not burning fat. Your usings energy systems called ATP  (Adenosine triphospate), an CP (creatine phosphate). Creatine phosphate helps to make ATP. I wont go into that here but very basically your body uses uses this substance for energy. These substances is naturally created by the body but only in small amounts, hence we cannot perform at this intensity for very long. So when you perform at such intensity, your using ATP not fat. Please don't become intimidate with all the terminology. One rule to remember. The body only starts to break down fat, twenty minutes into your arobic exercise (which should be around 50-70 % Maximum Heart Rate). Twenty minutes is when the body begins to burn fat. So for it to be worth your while, if your looking to burn fat, i wouldn't train for less than half an hour. Though i would recomend 45 minutes three times a week. Unfortunuately 90 % of gym instructors don't know what there talking about. If you look at the course they take to be an instructor, it is frighteningly basic. Alot of them don't even know about the glycemic index. I hope this has been of some help. Any queastions. Give us a buzz. 

I would also like to add, as i think its important. The fact that your being told, the higher your heart rate the more cals you burn. This is 100% inacurate. You burn cals by using the carbs in your body and of course fats. Carbs though are actually more responsible in most cases than fat for being over wieght because per gram, carbs have more cals than fat. Think about it, if you or i stuff are selves with carbs and fats, were going to get over weight cos were eating alot of cals. So how do we lose that weight. Obviously we burn what made us fat. We burn carbs and fat through aerobic exercise. Aerobic exercise increases the demand on the muscles for glycogen (carbs) which is broken down for exercise. Though if we do high intensity work, we use other energy systems which don't have high demand for glycogen (Carbs). In fact the demand is next to nothing. If your looking to lose weight, keep your workout reasonable comfortable, though its ok for the last five minutes to be uncomforable and difficult. Focus on low intensity such as biking or jogging and long times, long distances. Though if possible avoid swimming. Calorie burn wise its not worth your while. I can't give you the exact figures cos like everything else it depends on your wieght and swim style. As always, any questions let us know.  regards John

Ehhh High intensity exercise = Anaerobic, which primarily relies on stored glycogen for fuel.

I do agree, but probably for different reasons, LSD as in Long Steady Distance is the key to loosing weight.

P.S. If you have the numbers please post them, always interested in more data.

UD

Original Post by john1824:

Though if possible avoid swimming. Calorie burn wise its not worth your while. I can't give you the exact figures cos like everything else it depends on your wieght and swim style. As always, any questions let us know. randy_john@hotmail.co.uk regards John

Then explain how Michael Phelps has to eat 8,000-10,000 calories per day to maintain his body weight?

Original Post by john1824:

Carbs though are actually more responsible in most cases than fat for being over wieght because per gram, carbs have more cals than fat.

Um, carbs are usually around 4 calories per gram and fats are more like 8 or 9 calories per gram. Last I checked 4 < 9.

And aerobic exercise has been shown to have the same effect as no exercise on fat loss (when the calorie deficit was held constant).  High intensity exercise and weight lifting are much more effective in terms of weight loss. 

I'm going to go out on a limb and cry troll (account set up yesterday, thread was raised from the dead so he had to search for the topic, and email address was provided).

If you need to push yourself to get your heartrate into the "fat burning range," go for it. If it means you are holding yourself back, don't bother.

^^ Yeah I think you are right, trolling or trying to advertise his service.