Can YOU afford Christmas this year? (vent-ish)

Found this newsweek article this morning. I also heard this topic on the morning radio show I usually listen to while getting ready for work. People were calling in and telling their sob stories about how they couldn't afford gifts this year.

I work in a school on the poor side of town..and I have seen parents come to the office wanting US to find them help to get gifts for their kids. Some even expecting that we should help. I was a single parent myself..and we did not have much..but I NEVER expected anyone else to foot the bill for my boy's to have "stuff". I made my own life choices..and if I had to work three jobs to get them what I felt they needed...I did.

What is this attitude of entitlement we have these days? What is the season really about? To me, it is about giving your time and your love to others, possibly a nice meal and a day spent with your loved ones having fun. Not big-ticket items bought on credit.

Since when did Christmas turn into "take" instead of "give"? Don't you think that our selfish little children ought to learn about giving as well? I do.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/169877?tid=related cl

hmmm well.... i drive a 2002... and i would love to sell it and get rid of my car note.... i bought the car in 2005..... and at the time it wasnt the best financial investment, but i needed a car and i got approved for a car i liked...... it's nothing extravagant at all...... but i am now upside down in the car (as many american car owners are) so selling is not really an options..... unless any of you are interested in buying a 2002 grand prix with over 100k miles on it for $7,000 from me????

which brings me back to the op and since discussions..... and did one consider that perhaps when that hummer was bought though it wasnt the best investment, it for them was affordable...... and now do you know anyone in the market for a hummer... i mean even though gas has gone down, i dont think many want the expense of a hummer.... and so selling it sounds like would be quiet difficult....

i dont know a whole lot of folks who drive brand new expensive cars and whose kids were designer jeans.... the few i do know go to the private school my little sister attends, though they are not requesting "hand outs" they are noting that they are living paycheck to paycheck.... even though it's a bigger paycheck, they still are not doing any better than me on my social worker salary..... similarly i dont know many children who are underfed and go to school holey and dirty..... i know a lot of people who drive okay cars, live in decent neighborhoods and have alright brand clothing..... and some are getting by with reducing the amount of money spent on christmas, while other flat out cant afford it!

but hey you know, continue to judge and be judged and let me know how that works out for you!

Well, I guess you do not work where I do, see what I see...or live where I live. And as a social worker, I am sure you probably see people that abuse the system every day. You of all people should know there are people that would rather spend hundreds of dollars on their habits..and have their priorities screwed up. Their kids should come first..but they don't.

And again, I am NOT talking about the people who are deserving of help. Why are you so vehemently defending those who probably do not?

You of all people should know there are people that would rather spend hundreds of dollars on their habits..and have their priorities screwed up. Their kids should come first..but they don't.

if this isn't judgement, i dunno what is.

I am NOT talking about the people who are deserving of help.

and the concepts of deserving and undeserving poor are just about the height of judgement (with their basis in the christian church, no less).

my daughter (17) asked for donations to be made to the Union of Concerned Scientists and plainly said that she has too much stuff and doesn't want any more (we're very middle class, maybe lower middle, but she is an only child and an only grandchild on her dad's side)

I'm probably going to also get her a Sing Star game or two for her PS2.  We'll have fun singing songs together.  (even though we know different songs) 

So, yes I can afford Christmas.

And while I have bought gifts for other people, I've been at it since June and got great deals.  And I'm going to make a bunch of candied pecans (cinnamon, sugar, egg white, cardamom, and cayenne pepper) to give to other people. People always love them and it's been a while since I made them.

Original Post by monarch777:

Why are you so vehemently defending those who probably do not?

 How are you determining who "deserves" help? (IE:  How do you know, from a brief encounter or observation of what they drive, what their priorities are?)

because i feel you are out of line to so blatantly assume that because someone has a more expensive car than you that this signifies that they dont need help..... and as a social worker i do see people who put their habits before their children.... but trust they aren't spending hundreds and they aren't abusing the system beyond getting help for their kids.... so because the parents have messed up priorities their kids are not deserving?!?! but wait you said that dirty, under fed and holes in clothes were qualifications for your handouts.... but these are the very children whose parent's habits are taking priority over parenting.... so what is it monarch.... do these kids deserve a marry chistmas or not????

"probably do not deserve...." is a ridiculous statement! is the charitable organizations request you to make the decision.... then have the parents submit and income/expense report.... have them write a 200 word essay explaining their hardship.... and then if they dont meet the qualifications then deny them.... but dont turn your nose up because someone with a newer car says they are down on their luck and dont know what to do..... and musters up the courage to ask for help.... like i said just because it's a bigger paycheck, living paycheck to paycheck is still a struggle!

and truly.... i am certain i live and work in a very similar community as you do.... the difference is i know my place... and it isnt my place to judge those who say they need..... whether i think they do or not, it's not my place! the truth of the matter is any turn of events in my life could have made my circumstances very similar to others..... just because i made some better choices means nothing.... if things had occurred slightly different in my life perhaps i would have made not so good chooses....

my problem is that the very people you say deserve your help are in the next sentence the people you snub your nose at.....

hey guys?

i love the passion in this topic, but you need to stick to discussing the ideas and not insult people expressing the ideas

this friendly reminder is brought to you by the letter pi and the roman numeral LXXIX

thanks!

nomo (volunteer mod)

I can safely say I do not "snub my nose" at people who need help. Some people make poor life, career and financial choices all around. I suppose they need to endlessly get help from the people who have made better choices instead of learning from their mistakes.  I have gotten help myself...when I had no where to live and two kids..and zero money in my bank account. It was after a failed/abusive relationship. Someone helped me get  into an apartment and got me back on my feet. I drove an old clunker car that I paid too much for as well. But does that mean I shouldn't try to change my situation? Should I EXPECT someone will always be there when I make stupid choices? There are people that behave that way. At what point do you stop helping them and ask them to do something on their own?  I am not speaking in judgement, but from a place of experience..(see the posting..foster home, welfare...yadda yadda)

I make home visits to our student's homes....so yeah. I do know more than just bumping into someone for a brief moment.

but you are judging, monarch: you're judging people's choices, their willingness and ability to learn, their priorities, their behaviour, etc.  it's pretty obvious that you think they're doing things "wrong".

i tend to think that most people most of the time do the best they can with what they have.

You are right PG. We all should be handed everything..because we all are doing the best we can. I guess everyone should be included if we are truly non-judgemental.

I can has free stuffs?

Christmas is about sharing and loving one another. It shouldn't be about scrambling to sales (trampling innocent people while doing so) to make everyone on your list happy. Love should be expressed through action, not money.
Every year the holiday season gets tougher and tougher on people. Every year people want more. Christmas gifts get more expensive, Thanksgiving dinner demands to be larger, Decorations need to be more etc. Christmas (if finance allows comfortably) should be a time where you give gifts of appreciation to your loved ones. Not a time to buy gifts to express love. Material items will be mostly forgotten by people. Actions last forever.

As a teen still living with her mother, I've encouraged my family not to get me much for Christmas. A Lot of families are noticing a tighter budget, and simply cannot afford expensive gifts that people want. People have forgotten (including my family) that Christmas is not REQUIRED. It's simply an extra little something to show someone that you think of them. A coloring book and some crayons will mean just as much to a kid as a new video game. (and they'll get more use out of the coloring book)

But still, people are stressing over getting someone an iPod, thinking "Oh my gosh how am I ever going to afford to make them happy!?"

Newsflash: They'd be just as happy with something less expensive.

It's the THOUGHT that counts. Cheap gifts are a good thing!

If I were a mother having to cut back Christmas a little because of the recession I would simply explain to my kids that Christmas is about giving and that I want to give them the best in the world, but the money is just too tight.

Original Post by monarch777:

You are right PG. We all should be handed everything..because we all are doing the best we can. I guess everyone should be included if we are truly non-judgemental.

believe it or not, there is a middle ground betwee "everybody should be handed everything" and "everyone should get what i think they deserve."

I only buy for 1 friend who refuses to stop the gift exchange and my 2 pre-school nieces.  I am only spending a bit over $100 total.  My mother refuses to stop giving gifts.  When I ask what she wants, she will not answer.  Gift certificates are a no go because she and my dad refuse to use them.  I asked her for a cheapo mp3 player or a large colored suitcase (easy to find in airport conveyer belt).  Both are splurges I refuse to buy for myself.   My current mp3 player cannot be updated because I have upgraded to vista.  I only travel once a year so I can alway borrow a suitcase from someone for free.  My sister's set is getting pretty ratty as a wheel has fallen off and it falls over easily.  I would be fine getting nothing as I want for nothing, even though I am getting by on disability and a part-time job, I am doing alright financially as I live very frugally. 

In response to the other comments, I volunteered at a nonprofit charity during the xmas season last year while in social worker school for my masters.  I had several people come in driving new cars and ask for food.  We also had people wearing expensive clothes come in and ask for utility assistance.  Most of the people who came in for xmas gift help were dressed nicely.  The coat giveaway brought in the poorer crowd.  We also got a good share of homeless people looking for toiletries, sleeping bags and blankets.  While I was going to school, I would eat my dinner at the soup kitchen since I wasn't working.  I ran into a good number of your clients in the evenings.  The soup kitchen in my city would serve 600 people in an evening.   

I hope all of you are going to pick a star off the angel tree and help one of the needy kids.  Some parents with little ones at home really cannot afford to work  and must ask for help.  Without you, they get no xmas. 

I am a big fan of Amy D. of "Tightwad Gazette" fame.  I think buying toys used is fine.  I also have no problem with giving these for xmas and birthdays.  I plan to do this for my own children.  Used toys, clothes and furniture.

I have a perfectly good erector set that some kid or kids should be thrilled to get; however, there's a climate where I cannot give it to a charity because it's not an unopened gift.  I have an ipod shuffle mp3 player that I don't use, my friends all have their own and a charity is not interested in receiving opened stuff.

I will be giving stuffed animals (unused) and a few other items to the toys for tots program, but I have no plans to buy new items.

There's a current sense of entitlement that I do not appreciate.  I told my sister that if my nephews want to give me something that I'd prefer they make something rather than buy it...whatever happened to valuing handmade gifts over store bought stuff?  I have no need for stuff, but a macaroni project made with some love is always welcome.

For the most part I'll be giving more than I receive.  A gift card for my sister who is a recent single mom and a DVD, books for my nephews (I may also include a few favorites from my bookshelves even though they're not new).  A few gifts for close friends, finding some kind of musical concert tickets for my grandma.  I don't need anything and I don't particularly need anything.  I calendar for my mom and a pretty plate I found at a thrift store, a USB thumb drive for my dad.  Not much on my holiday list.

I've been trying to avoid getting involved in this but I will say just this.

No child should have to go without, but sometimes those are the cards that are dealt and it is up to the parents to figure it now, not the rest of the us. If people want to help out then that is generous of them, but charity is optional not compulsory.

Some of us were brought up different, I was raised by a mother who would never accept or ask for help and morals instilled in childhood stay with you, her phrase was,

"Never a borrower or a lender be"

We were never even allowed to go out at Halloween because she said we will not beg at peoples doors for sweets!

Back when I was a child the defining line of those who required help was much clearer but the way I see it these days it is now much harder to pin-point the "Needy from the Greedy"!

I have no problem helping those who genuinely need it but I do have a problem with helping those who think that the world owes them a living!

If I see someone struggling to make ends meet and it's down to real reasons like health, disability, working 3 jobs but just still not quite getting enough then yes I don't have any problem with helping out when I can.....

But! it's the ones who are more than capable of working but don't, who expect to be helped, who are out every weekend drinking and partying, etc then NO I don't think they deserve help. Sadly yes that may mean that their kids go without but......

Is this judgemental? yes it is but if we are playing the non judgemental card here on how people raise their kids, and who are we to judge them just remember that what you are saying is it's ok to abuse kids and we will never question it! Child abuse doesn't stop at physical, sexual, when you have children you are legally responsible to give that child(ren) the best life you can offer, that's the complete circle of that child's life.

So yes I am judgemental I don't agree with abuse in any form!

Original Post by miss_cas:

We also had people wearing expensive clothes come in and ask for utility assistance. 

 Be careful about assumptions based on outward appearances.  I only say this out of experience - I could be a textbook definition of middle class, but I've had several people assume I have a lot more money than I do simply because of the purse I carry.  It retails, new, for about $250 at Brighton - but the thing is, I paid nothing for it, as it was a hand me down.  Not to mention the number of "expensive" or designer looking clothes one can find at a second hand or Goodwill store (depends on who donates what, really).  That trendy "vintage look" retailing for hundreds at Macy's or Sax can easily be achieved by browsing antique and flea markets.

What you see as a $150 Lauren sweater might very well have been a $25 steal from an outlet mall.

#57 - so true!

the junior league in many towns run a bargain box used clothing store and omg! you can get absolute steals in there!  I have found brand new, tag still on, designer label clothes in there for insanely low prices -- $5 for a shirt, $10 for jeans, etc. Nice mens suits by Ralph Lauren for $20-$40.  I believe their mission is to help the needy - both by helping them acquire clothes that will help them get a job and by using the money raised for charitable purposes.  But ya gotta love what the junior league women donate!

but as to the overall point of this thread, i'm not really interested in keeping a running tab on who is doing what and how, whether someone is 'worthy' of my charity or not....

i will be as generous as i can be, in the most effective ways as i can manage, and i will not lose a wink of sleep over the possibility that a slacker got something out of it

PG, people make judgements or assumptions all the time. If we want to make a donation to a certain family or person that is our decision and we can base that decision on our own reasoning.  I guess you would call that judgement. Do not try to make us believe you do not judge. You are judging Monarch by the statements she makes. It's all in the eye of the beholder.  I understand what Monarch and others are saying. Believe it or not, there are people in the world who are just like the big 3 auto makers asking for a hand-out. It is time to live a more simple life.  We each make decisions...buying a house too big for our needs, an expensive automobile, costly clothing to keep up with the "jones'". I believe if you are over your heads, sell what you don't need. (Yes, you may have to take a loss on it). However, those in the higher income bracket tend to think they "need" all of the above mentioned items when in reality, they do not.  Another thing, no matter how much we earn, in general, we tend to spend it.  If our income goes up, so, usually, does our spending. 

Original Post by misskady:

However, those in the higher income bracket tend to think they "need" all of the above mentioned items when in reality, they do not.  

To each according to their needs, eh?  Capitalists are weird bunch. 

Seriously - as someone else mentioned, there are more possibilities than total aristocratic indulgence and living like the Amish.