Are All Women Sexist?

Now then, that I have your attention.

I've noticed a most frustrating attitude among some members of the female community that seems to come down to "I/my female bretheren am better than the entire male sex." I won't say it's all of you, but it's enough women (and in enough posts) that one could begin to see a pattern.

So what say you Women? Are you Sexist? Is it just a small minority among you? Is it just a maturity thing, that as women mature they grow wisdom and see men as no longer the enemy?

Why so many angry, bitter feelings towards a whole sex? Are we, the men on this site, to believe that just because a handful of men may have done you wrong that the entire sex has done you wrong, included those whom have never met you?

Discuss.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

and now comes the poor-men-are-victims-too-they-just-don't-repo rt-it argument, which i will ignore ;)

 I'm not trying to tell you what to believe PG, and I'm certainly not going to argue with you.  I just wanted to comment that it's a shame to see this kind of response.  It just sounds so angry.  Yeah, men can be @$$holes.  So can women.  That is a fact of life.  When a man hurts a woman, that man is to blame, HE'S responsible for hurting that woman.  He deserves to be punished for what he did.

But when that woman turns around and paints every other man with that same paintbrush, then she's only hurting herself.  And then, SHE'S responsible.  I guess I've never really cared for close minded-arguments, and to simply choose to ignore someone else's response simply because it doesn't agree with yours, well that's your choice.  But I just wanted to point out that by doing so, you're painting yourself this time. 

I've read your responses, and there are times when you and I agree.  I have no personal issue with you and I really hope you don't take this as a personal assault, because it's not.   There are times when you post and your argument is clear and logical and hard to disagree with.  And there are times when your argument is pure emotional, and it shows.  I suppose we're all guilty of this at one point or another.  And I realize it's none of my business, but I like the first type of post better.

Safiyah

Original Post by anndjoe:

I have only followed this thread off and on so if this has been said I do apologise in advance.

I have found just by observation that you tend to attract the same kind of person! I have seen women/men leave one abuser only to get involved with an other. Now I am not about to get all technical about it because in all honesty I don't know why this happens. A pattern forms and you find that all the people in abusive relationships have a similar emotional characteristic and until they break that mould and change whatever that is they continue to fall into one disaster after another. Some never see the pattern and therefore never get out of the cycle, but then there are those who one day something inside them changes and they are no longer that victim!

You also usually find that the abuser is in fact a victim also of abuse at some point in their life.

I am not saying that this is an acceptable reason for abuse of any kind, but what I am saying is both the victim and the abuser need help.

Not really much to do with anything but just wanted to say it

 Anndjoe: 

I agree with you on this point.  We DO tend to follow a pattern.  Of course it's not easy to break, but it can be done (speaking from experience here). 

And your comment about usually finding out that the abuser is in fact a victim of abuse at some point in their life, well that one I definitely agree with.  As a matter of fact, that's what really helped me to forgive my own abuser, was to find out, finally, what HIS childhood was like.  MUCH worse than I ever experienced. 

No, it didn't excuse his behaviour, not by a long shot.  But I understood better why he was the way he was, and for that reason was able to forgive him and let that baggage go. 

I still don't speak with him, but that's just because I'd rather not put myself in that position again.  Forgiveness doesn't mean becoming (or continuing to become) a doormat.  It just means letting go of the anger/pain/etc you feel inside.  It's more for our own benefit than for the person we're forgiving.

Anyways, just wanted to say I think you made a good point and I agree with you.

Safiyah

Original Post by coffincritter:

You know, not to endorse bulimia or anything, but the more I read on this thread of self-loathing women professing their hatred of other women the more I want to hurl. Preferably in their direction.

Why do so many women have a deep seated hatred of their own kind? Is it because where brought up to be competitive with each other? Is it internalized hatred our society teaches us projected outward? Is it a desperate need for male approval, to be seen as the "cool" girl who's different from all the others? I've had beef with other women individually, but I never let me decide they represented the gender as a whole. So what is it? What has the WHOLE of womenkind ever done to these gals to make them hate women and de facto themselves?

 

 

 Maybe some females see something they don't like about themselves in others, or just go along with the crowd when it comes to raggin' on people.

Original Post by safiyah1:

Original Post by anndjoe:

I have only followed this thread off and on so if this has been said I do apologise in advance.

I have found just by observation that you tend to attract the same kind of person! I have seen women/men leave one abuser only to get involved with an other. Now I am not about to get all technical about it because in all honesty I don't know why this happens. A pattern forms and you find that all the people in abusive relationships have a similar emotional characteristic and until they break that mould and change whatever that is they continue to fall into one disaster after another. Some never see the pattern and therefore never get out of the cycle, but then there are those who one day something inside them changes and they are no longer that victim!

You also usually find that the abuser is in fact a victim also of abuse at some point in their life.

I am not saying that this is an acceptable reason for abuse of any kind, but what I am saying is both the victim and the abuser need help.

Not really much to do with anything but just wanted to say it

 Anndjoe: 

I agree with you on this point.  We DO tend to follow a pattern.  Of course it's not easy to break, but it can be done (speaking from experience here). 

And your comment about usually finding out that the abuser is in fact a victim of abuse at some point in their life, well that one I definitely agree with.  As a matter of fact, that's what really helped me to forgive my own abuser, was to find out, finally, what HIS childhood was like.  MUCH worse than I ever experienced. 

No, it didn't excuse his behaviour, not by a long shot.  But I understood better why he was the way he was, and for that reason was able to forgive him and let that baggage go. 

I still don't speak with him, but that's just because I'd rather not put myself in that position again.  Forgiveness doesn't mean becoming (or continuing to become) a doormat.  It just means letting go of the anger/pain/etc you feel inside.  It's more for our own benefit than for the person we're forgiving.

Anyways, just wanted to say I think you made a good point and I agree with you.

Safiyah

 Unfortunately, the abuser was a victim theory isn't the case with all abusers. I know a male who had a very loving, supportive family structure. He had a stellar high school  sports career, earned a 2 year scholarship to collage, had a  loving marriage and a wonderful child. His problem was meth. Once he got on that crap, everything went to pot. Wife left him, and then he started dating my sister. They moved almost 500 miles away, and a month later he started to beat the crap out of her. We don't know if he did anything to my nephew, he doesn't remember too much about that time.

Substance abuse plays a large part in domestic abuse. I'd love to have some reason as to why this guy hurt my sister so much, but he was just some pathetic junkie who got his jollies by knocking my sis out.

safiyah1 said:

I realize my opinion is not necessarily popular, and I accept that.  But every time I pick up a cup of coffee to drink, I find myself thinking about how the nerve endings in my hand and arm are 'talking' with my brain, and telling the muscles in my body exactly where to go to grip the cup, exactly how to grip the cup and bring it to my mouth, and exactly how to adjust their hold based on the draining liquid as I drink the coffee.  I flat refuse to believe anything less than our being created by One who loves us.  And if that's true, no way could we be inherently bad turned good by society.    Why would a God who loves us create us with the inbred notion of hurting each other?  Makes no sense to me.

I like the way you put this. This way of thinking is one of the main reasons why I find so many religions deplorable. I never could wrap my mind around "original sin". Any religion based on the idea that people are sinful by nature is abhorrent to me.

In regards to OP, my response is No.

'nough said.

Original Post by safiyah1:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

and now comes the poor-men-are-victims-too-they-just-don't-repo rt-it argument, which i will ignore ;)

 I'm not trying to tell you what to believe PG, and I'm certainly not going to argue with you.  I just wanted to comment that it's a shame to see this kind of response.  It just sounds so angry.  Yeah, men can be @$$holes.  So can women.  That is a fact of life.  When a man hurts a woman, that man is to blame, HE'S responsible for hurting that woman.  He deserves to be punished for what he did.

But when that woman turns around and paints every other man with that same paintbrush, then she's only hurting herself.  And then, SHE'S responsible.  I guess I've never really cared for close minded-arguments, and to simply choose to ignore someone else's response simply because it doesn't agree with yours, well that's your choice.  But I just wanted to point out that by doing so, you're painting yourself this time. 

I've read your responses, and there are times when you and I agree.  I have no personal issue with you and I really hope you don't take this as a personal assault, because it's not.   There are times when you post and your argument is clear and logical and hard to disagree with.  And there are times when your argument is pure emotional, and it shows.  I suppose we're all guilty of this at one point or another.  And I realize it's none of my business, but I like the first type of post better.

Safiyah

safiyah, it's just that we've had that discussion here many times before.  you're right, it is an emotional issue for me, and it's one in which i am easily played.  so i wanted to make a statement right up front that i wasn't going to get drawn into it again.  but as i've said before, i don't think all, most, or even many men are violent.  i think it's a small minority.

Original Post by m0m6:

Original Post by safiyah1:

Original Post by anndjoe:

You also usually find that the abuser is in fact a victim also of abuse at some point in their life.

I am not saying that this is an acceptable reason for abuse of any kind, but what I am saying is both the victim and the abuser need help.

Not really much to do with anything but just wanted to say it

 Anndjoe: 

And your comment about usually finding out that the abuser is in fact a victim of abuse at some point in their life, well that one I definitely agree with.  As a matter of fact, that's what really helped me to forgive my own abuser, was to find out, finally, what HIS childhood was like.  MUCH worse than I ever experienced. 

No, it didn't excuse his behaviour, not by a long shot.  But I understood better why he was the way he was, and for that reason was able to forgive him and let that baggage go. 

I still don't speak with him, but that's just because I'd rather not put myself in that position again.  Forgiveness doesn't mean becoming (or continuing to become) a doormat.  It just means letting go of the anger/pain/etc you feel inside.  It's more for our own benefit than for the person we're forgiving.

Anyways, just wanted to say I think you made a good point and I agree with you.

Safiyah

 Unfortunately, the abuser was a victim theory isn't the case with all abusers. I know a male who had a very loving, supportive family structure. He had a stellar high school  sports career, earned a 2 year scholarship to collage, had a  loving marriage and a wonderful child. His problem was meth. Once he got on that crap, everything went to pot. Wife left him, and then he started dating my sister. They moved almost 500 miles away, and a month later he started to beat the crap out of her. We don't know if he did anything to my nephew, he doesn't remember too much about that time.

Substance abuse plays a large part in domestic abuse. I'd love to have some reason as to why this guy hurt my sister so much, but he was just some pathetic junkie who got his jollies by knocking my sis out.

 m0m6:

Neither Anndjoe nor I said that ALL abusers are victims of abuse themselves.  I DO believe that is the case where MOST of them are concerned, but not all of them.  Just because they don't admit to prior abuse (of which there are many forms) doesn't mean they weren't abused.  I agree that drugs CAN play a part, but I don't think it plays a LARGE part.  We disagree on that one.  Anndjoe said 'usually' and I agree with that. 

Safiyah

Original Post by pgeorgian:

safiyah, it's just that we've had that discussion here many times before.  you're right, it is an emotional issue for me, and it's one in which i am easily played.  so i wanted to make a statement right up front that i wasn't going to get drawn into it again.  but as i've said before, i don't think all, most, or even many men are violent.  i think it's a small minority.

 I figured as much, thanks for clarifying for me.  Ok then, I understand where you're coming from, and I respect your point of view.  Regarding the small minority, we agree there.  I'm glad you didn't take my response personally, I wasn't aware of how many times this issue has come up here.  I know there are people coming and going all the time, so the newer people like me may not have experienced the prior arguments.

Safiyah

Neither Anndjoe nor I said that ALL abusers are victims of abuse themselves.  I DO believe that is the case where MOST of them are concerned, but not all of them.  Just because they don't admit to prior abuse (of which there are many forms) doesn't mean they weren't abused.  I agree that drugs CAN play a part, but I don't think it plays a LARGE part.  We disagree on that one.  Anndjoe said 'usually' and I agree with that. 

I believe that substance abuse is often a catalyst for abuse. Someone who is abusing any chemical substance does not have the judgment of someone who is sober. The substance can make it much easier for the abuser to lose control and commit the abuse.

Original Post by m0m6:

 Maybe some females see something they don't like about themselves in others, or just go along with the crowd when it comes to raggin' on people.

 I think you have a point here.  Unfortunately this is far too common in society in general.  The one thing that always pops up in my head when someone attacks me verbally is the fact that more often than not, they're not really talking to me, they're talking to themselves.  I've never been one to go along with the crowd, I just don't understand that one.

Safiyah

Original Post by moonikins:

Neither Anndjoe nor I said that ALL abusers are victims of abuse themselves.  I DO believe that is the case where MOST of them are concerned, but not all of them.  Just because they don't admit to prior abuse (of which there are many forms) doesn't mean they weren't abused.  I agree that drugs CAN play a part, but I don't think it plays a LARGE part.  We disagree on that one.  Anndjoe said 'usually' and I agree with that. 

I believe that substance abuse is often a catalyst for abuse. Someone who is abusing any chemical substance does not have the judgment of someone who is sober. The substance can make it much easier for the abuser to lose control and commit the abuse.

 I agree that it can be.  Maybe with the 'popularity' of meth things are changing, but I don't think substance abuse is the catalyst in most cases. 

****EDIT**** I DO think that people who are already 'inclined' to become abusers are much more likely to abuse if they're also on drugs or alcohol.  But just because someone abuses drugs (or alcohol) doesn't mean they're going to become abusers of people as well. ****end edit****

Mind you I think alcohol is the biggest catalyst where substances are concerned, not sure if you're including that when you say "substance abuse." 

But after all the people I've talked to who were abused, in most of those cases substance abuse was not even in the picture.  From all the research I've done personally (while healing from my own baggage) substance abuse (mainly alcohol) was also not the catalyst in the majority of the cases.  In most cases the 'catalyst' was the abusers own upbringing. 

That's not to say that's the case in every situation because it's not.  Unfortunately where abuse is concerned there are exceptions to every rule.

Safiyah

Hi Safiya.  Yes I was including alcohol. And it is the most prevalent. I think we're on a slightly different page on what I meant by catalyst. I was using it not as the original incident that caused the person to become an abuser. That would definitely be the person's upbringing. I meant it is easier for someone who is drunk/high to lose control and be physically abusive.

My ex was not physically abusive at all. He was verbally and emotionally abusive. It was always easier for him to say nasty things and threaten me emotionally or financially when he was drunk. He didn't have to be drunk to do these things.

Original Post by moonikins:

Hi Safiya.  Yes I was including alcohol. And it is the most prevalent. I think we're on a slightly different page on what I meant by catalyst. I was using it not as the original incident that caused the person to become an abuser. That would definitely be the person's upbringing. I meant it is easier for someone who is drunk/high to lose control and be physically abusive.

My ex was not physically abusive at all. He was verbally and emotionally abusive. It was always easier for him to say nasty things and threaten me emotionally or financially when he was drunk. He didn't have to be drunk to do these things.

 This must be my day for brain farts.  Will have to turn up the fans to dissipate the smell, lol.  Now that you point this out, I guess I should have realized that.  I know what a catalyst is, and it SHOULD have been clear to me.  My fault.  And yes, you and I agree on this point.  Sorry about that.

*shaking my head at myself* 

Safiyah

if you talk to cops, they will tell you that about 95% of domestic abuse calls involve alcohol.  that doesn't mean that there isn't abuse without chemicals, but it suggests that alcohol and other substances contribute a lot to escalation.  (but there's probably lots of quiet abuse going on where alcohol isn't involved.)

You also usually find that people who are addicted to any kind of substance have the emotional problems that I was talking about. No one in their balanced state of mind would willingly be an addict, they usually feel displaced from society and suffering from depression.

Still not saying that this is acceptable but for them to be so unhappy as to abuse themselves (with substance) and then to abuse people in their life means they need help. The reason in my opinion that abuse is more common coming from men is because men don't know how to release emotions the same way women do.

Original Post by anndjoe:

You also usually find that people who are addicted to any kind of substance have the emotional problems that I was talking about. No one in their balanced state of mind would willingly be an addict, they usually feel displaced from society and suffering from depression.

Still not saying that this is acceptable but for them to be so unhappy as to abuse themselves (with substance) and then to abuse people in their life means they need help. The reason in my opinion that abuse is more common coming from men is because men don't know how to release emotions the same way women do.

I agree about the substance abuse, and I would point out that many abused chemicals suppress the portions of the brain that control higher level reason and at that point emotive behavior takes over. This is most often aggresive behavior in men (due to deep seated biological need to dominate the herd) which is why you often see physically abusive behavior in men who abuse controlled substances.

Original Post by safiyah1:

Original Post by m0m6:

 Maybe some females see something they don't like about themselves in others, or just go along with the crowd when it comes to raggin' on people.

 I think you have a point here.  Unfortunately this is far too common in society in general.  The one thing that always pops up in my head when someone attacks me verbally is the fact that more often than not, they're not really talking to me, they're talking to themselves.  I've never been one to go along with the crowd, I just don't understand that one.

Safiyah

 I think its rooted in the primal fear of being alone. The "sheep" who is by themselves gets eaten!

I agree with the idea that they aren't necessarily attacking you, but themselves. We might also be able to tag on to that the idea of attacking the emotions of the situation, and not the facts. It's so hard to distance yourself and look at situatuions objectively. It's harder to do now that I'm a mom.

Yes, I am a woman.

No, I'm not sexist. :)

I think it's ridiculous to say, either way, that "men are like this" and "women are like that." Generalizing statements make me cringe. That's why I don't call myself a feminist, but advocate "equal opportunity." To put women ahead of men OR men ahead of women in any way is pointless and defeating.

I think there are enough sexist females as there are misogynist men....you cannot blame it on everyone but there WILL be someone lol

I think it has a lot to do wt their own experiences and how they were raised. Of course someone who had a lot of problems wt men would consider herself better than ANY men, which is obviously not true; but if you had good experiences wt men, i doubt you'd toss around such comments.

I love MY man, but if he's great it doesn't mean all are.