Are All Women Sexist?

Now then, that I have your attention.

I've noticed a most frustrating attitude among some members of the female community that seems to come down to "I/my female bretheren am better than the entire male sex." I won't say it's all of you, but it's enough women (and in enough posts) that one could begin to see a pattern.

So what say you Women? Are you Sexist? Is it just a small minority among you? Is it just a maturity thing, that as women mature they grow wisdom and see men as no longer the enemy?

Why so many angry, bitter feelings towards a whole sex? Are we, the men on this site, to believe that just because a handful of men may have done you wrong that the entire sex has done you wrong, included those whom have never met you?

Discuss.

Hey, I love men...

I was going to reply that I do get frustrated with sexism when I say I'm going to medical school and I get asked, "You're going to be a nurse?"  I'm sure it's because I'm a girl.  But you know who asks me that stupid question?  Other women.

It's mostly other women who assume I'm incapable of doing things because I'm a woman.  Maybe they then blame it all on guys?  I have no idea...

Original Post by itsbutters:

Cant we all just get along? And have lots of nookie in the process? Is that too much to ask?

Not for some butters, not for some ;)

BTW, love your 'what what' video. Very provocative. :)

I have been sexually harrassed by, taken advantage of, and rudely approached by males more than once. I don't hold all guys responsible, but I don't trust men as much as women when dealing with emotional or personal stuff. I've never dated partially for that reason (and that I'm so friggin tall :P).

I believe that males and females have their strong points, but you can't really group people by their gender, anyhow. Some will say a strong point in a man is physical strength--but I have seen women who are stronger than some men. Some will say a strong point in a woman is her ability to be motherly; however, I have seen families where the father takes on the 'mom' role and does a great job at it. People are starting to be different and are busting the molds society has created for genders, races, ages, etc.

I'd have to say that most women have had many experiences with men where they have been treated poorly.  Men lying about what they want, men pretending to be interested for sex, much more interested in them as arm candy than for themselves, etc.  Men who think because they are men that they should be catered to. So we tend to watch out for more of the same kind of attitudes.

Now from my male friends, I'd have to say that they've had very few women treat them badly, but when it's been bad it's been downright vicious.  Playing head games, crippling them economically, stealing their children, etc.

How much oppression and discrimination have you, yourself, experienced in your life?

I fortunately have not faced too much discrimination in every day life, but I have OTJ.  I used to be a claims adjuster who went around with a ladder and climbed on people's roofs, crawled under houses, etc. to assess damage.  (Now I supervise adjusters.)  I would face discrimination multiple times per day because people did not believe I could do the job because I am female.  Many people did not believe I had the physical ability to do what I needed to do (i.e. climb on the roof) and acted incredulous when I proved them wrong.  Also people were less willing to believe me or have confidence in my opinion simply because I was female.  I would usually prove these people wrong as well, simply because in talking to them, my extensive knowledge became apparent.  Additionally as I moved up the ranks and began taking trainees around with me, whenever the trainee was a man EVERY single person would automatically assume that I was the trainee, not the other way around.  Interestingly, most of the worst discrimination came from women, not men. 

Now that I supervise I don't interact with the public as much, so I don't run into it as often.  However I also have a second fun job at a wine store and I have worked there since it opened and I have fairly extensive wine knowledge - certainly more than anyone else who works there, including the owner.  However sometimes I will have people come in and even though I helped them from the beginning, they will try to direct their questions to one of the male staff instead of me. I guess  they assume that because they possess a **** and balls, naturally they must be more knowledgable about wine than a mere female.  Fortunately, I work with some great guys, so whenever that happens they just turn to me and say "I'll let you answer that" and turn and walk away.  :)

*bows to moonikins*

I would like to bring up two points/questions:

1. Do men get the sexist harrassment some (most?) women face on a day-to-day basis?

2. Do you think it is always wrong to generalize? Of course there are great women and men, but it is a fact that women have faced oppression for a long time.

How much oppression and discrimination have you, yourself, experienced in your life?

Little to none.  I got educated, I worked in construction, I beat men down the slopes, I became a professional, I make more than my immediate male counterparts ... and I also have a better chance of landing a job with a company that wants to increase its "diversity."

On the other hand, I've known plenty of women who will not allow a man to take care of a child (assume he won't know how ... or worse), who assume a man is gay because of his line of work or the way he dresses, who expect men to never cry or be hurt even when she is being incredibly cruel and hurtful, who judge a man by his income level ... I could go on.

Frankly, it seems to me that in the 21st century, the deck is really stacked in the ladies' favor.

Another interesting thing I just througt of.  You all can tell me if this is coincidence or sexism.

When I was in college, studying accounting, the classes were about 65% female (as were the demographics for the whole school).  The officers of our accounting club, were 90% female.  In fact, most of the high achievers were.  In my first year group in public, it was about 65% female (from all schools).  The next year, when I was doing recruiting, we hired about 70% female.  Apparently the trend has been this way for a while.

In the entire Greater Bay Area (San Francisco and San Jose), there were exactly TWO female partners (so, less than 10%).

Gee, why did that happen?  Attrition or sexism?

I'm not sexist, I love men, but I can be cynical!

#48 - A number of factors, and I would not exclude sexism.  Also the fact that many women of the age to become partner may have already left the work force to raise a family, and may or may not have returned.  Even if she did return, she would have lost out on that time and experience that she would not have if she had been a man, who typically do not exit the work force for any reason. 

I also know tons of women who went to college and then promptly got married and started having kids and were barely in the work force at all.  My college roommate was that way - she clearly stated all throughout college that she had no intention of working once she found a man and got married.  That boggled my mind - why bother with the college education then if you aren't going to do anything with it?  Seems like a big waste of daddy's money...

Original Post by juliemae2:

I don't think I'm sexist.

I do believe that men and women, in general, have different strengths and weaknesses.  I've been rebuked for saying as much.

I also believe that each person is unique and no one fits the generalities entirely.

 I agree 100%.  Julie is a smart cookie. 

I also think my opinion varies depending on whatever experience happens to be fresh in my mind.  Some days I'm very objective, and others I just want to rant about my woes in regards to the masculine sex.

Original Post by fuzzys:

That boggled my mind - why bother with the college education then if you aren't going to do anything with it?  Seems like a big waste of daddy's money...

 That's what we call the MRS degree.  ;)

Ha ha, I've heard that too.  What's funny is my roommate didn't even "find her husband" at school...  She found him when she went back home for a weekend - at a bar.  So, she could have gotten him without spending the $$ on the MRS degree. 

How much oppression and discrimination have you, yourself, experienced in your life?

I don't know that I have experience oppression, but have definitely experienced discrimination at work because of my gender.  Specifically being paid less than men doing the same job and also being told point blank that if I were a man I'd get a promotion but since I wasn't, I wouldn't.   I was angry about it, but kept asking for raises and the promotion and eventually got both, because I deserved it.  But that was the 80's maybe things are better now? 

Still consider myself a feminist.  Still like men anyway.

So there are a LOT of post I want to respond to - the issue is how many can I remember in one post?

I have never had my heart ripped from me. No female has hurt me like that. No male friend has ever backstabbed me in any such way either. In fact all the girls I've dated have been reasonable, wonderful girls/women. I love the differences that exist between men and women. I wouldn't want to date a guy, that'd just be boring! I'm also a feminist myself. But I am strictly an equality sort of guy.

What does that mean? Well I think I have to agree with lysistra that women have it pretty good right now (although that male/female privilege list was a VERY interesting read). In some respects I think that the whole feminism movement has gone too far. There are areas where it hasn't gone far enough, but there are spots where it is over the top and now the favour is skewed for women. Oddly enough this bothers me more as a concept than it does in every day life because I'm going to continue being who I am and I believe that we each get what we deserve/work for with a bit of occasional luck thrown in to spice things up.

I don't have much to speak to about women being "b*tchy" or being the snooty type that a lot of guys have problems with. Why? I avoid those sort of people. It's generally pretty easy to pick someone like that out when you're in a group and I've never made an effort to be their friend. Those sort of people don't interest me so I've rarely dealt with them. Same goes for cocky, jerk guys. I've never been interested in the "look how AWESOME I am" debate and crap shoot that goes on between men who laude their posessions over each other. I'm friends with guys who don't need to tell me how they subjugate the women in their lives to prove to me that they are cool guys. In truth the fact that they don't do this shows me they are worthy of my friendship. I actually feel out of place around those arrogant guys because I really love and respect women so I tend to speak up when I disagree with what people say (I got tired of people over riding my point when I worded things subtly so now I just straight up say I don't agree with them). This always makes it kind of awkward...but meh. They're just being d*cks.

This is a thought I'd like you to consider: The new generation opinion is one of equality.

I may not be right about that but I am right in knowing that I will work towards the goal of equality as long as I can. I think things should be split 50/50 between men and women. I also think that our differences need to be recognized. When my ex and I would go shopping together I carried the bigger portion of the groceries home (it doesn't mean her load was light by any means). I just happened to be 100lbs heavier than her and capable of lifting more than her comfortably. Outside of that we split the grocery bill, we split the costs of going out dinner and doing things together. It felt natural to do things that way. We're both people and both capable of doing our best.

#53 - I'm actually kind of scared that I'm going to end up with a woman who just wants a MRS degree. It would really bother me. I don't care whether I end up taking care of the children and leaving work or whether my eventual wife does, but at the very least I want a wife who is willing to work for a living. We can reach the decision ourselves. God help me if I get caught by a MRS!!!

#26 - Kathy - I don't harbour a deep resentment for any woman. I'm working on the whole - if you're rude to me it's not because I'm a bad person - deal. Before that I think I was just very lucky with the people in my life. **Edit** I just remembered the rest of what I wanted to say! I heard this saying a while back and have been watching my interactions with people and find it to be intriguing: Women forgive but never forget, men forget but never forgive.**End edit**

HK - thanks for the interesting discussion.

I admit I'm sexist.  I will give the men I meet the benefit of the doubt and assume they are innocent of being sexist themselves.  But I am always on the watch for subtle clues that tell me a man looks down on me because I'm female.

When I was a kid, it was assumed that my parents would pay for my brothers' educations, but not for mine.  When I was in school I was guided away from any math course when I found it difficult.  The boys got tutors, the girls were told not to worry their pretty heads about it.

I watched and learned as my mother waited on my father hand and foot.  Everything the family did was for his benefit.  He considered it his job to house, feed, clothe us and he had the final say on all decisions, and he put his own needs first.  He was considered a wonderful man because he didn't lose his temper and hit us.

When I was working I was paid less than men doing the same job.  I was not promoted and men took credit for work I'd done on a regular basis.  Several times I was told to train some silly boy, right out of school, to be my supervisor.  All the executives and managers were men until very late in my career, in the 1990s.  I got my first real promotion when I was 59.  I was forced into retirement before I was 62.

When I was married I turned my pay over to my husband and couldn't get credit without my husband's signature (yes, that was the way it was in the 1960s).  I had no money of my own and was expected to not only work at a job but to do all the housework, yardwork, cooking and childcare while my husband sat on his ass.  Divorce was very hard, but at least I was in control of my life.

I have many wonderful male friends, but every single one of them, although they didn't know it, was under scrutiny for a time before I decided to trust them.  I like their company, but I don't need them.

Now that I'm an old lady, I don't hesitate to verbally crush any male chauvinist pig who crosses my path.  I'm independent now and very happy for the first time in my life.  So, fellas, treat me with some respect and I'll do the same.

Women only make 75.5 cents for every dollar that men earn in the US.

nuff' said.

kaffwyn~~~~Edit:  I have to disclaim that I have _zero_ female friends... so I'm not sure that my self proclaimed title as a sexist stands.... I can definately see both sides of the argument though.

Seriously, no female friends?? how? why?

Original Post by belladonna69:

kaffwyn~~~~Edit:  I have to disclaim that I have _zero_ female friends... so I'm not sure that my self proclaimed title as a sexist stands.... I can definitely see both sides of the argument though.

Seriously, no female friends?? how? why?

Too much drama... coincidence?  Who knows!  I've had a few here and there over the years, and there always seems to be some huge blow up fight that I'm not really interested in participating in, so I let them drift.

I literally married my best friend.  We were best friends for YEARS before we dated.  All of his friends, are my friends too.  I've known them all for a decade.  They're all nerdy, so, not too many females have penetrated the group at all.

Original Post by clairelaine:

I watched and learned as my mother waited on my father hand and foot.  Everything the family did was for his benefit.  He considered it his job to house, feed, clothe us and he had the final say on all decisions, and he put his own needs first.  He was considered a wonderful man because he didn't lose his temper and hit us.

It was that way in my house, too.  I watched... and decided there was no way in hell I was going to wait on/depend on anyone like that.

Of course, I was born in the 70's, so the social climate was completely different.  I think it was already okay (maybe even encouraged) for a woman not to want that.