I Almost Cried Tears of Joy Today After Going to the Dentist.

I originally moved to Japan in 1995. I was very young (26) and thus had had little experience with the US health care system when I came here. But I had no problem with the system here in those five years. Then my wife and I decided to go back to the states in 2001. Few career prospects, but we decided to give it a try. Before I had a permanent job, my wife got a horrible pain in her ear. We had no insurance, and everyone told us to "go to the emergency room at Baptist Hospital" (in Miami). So we went there.

We waited about 3 1/2 hours and filled out a bunch of paperwork, then the doctor looked at her for 5 minutes and told us she had an ear infection. He gave us an antibiotic shot and a prescription for antibiotics. When we went to the pharmacy, we were told that there was no generic and that the course of antibiotics was $100+. We were shocked, since no drugs ever ran more than $5 in Japan.

We were even more shocked about a week later when the bill came. That 5 minutes with the doctor and one antibiotic shot cost...$1800! Of course we couldn't afford it, so we applied for the hospital's hardship waiver or whatever, and eventually they arranged so that we could pay something like 10% of the bill - I guess the people with insurance end up paying the rest.

We had a few other misadventures with the US system - like the missed diagnosis of my younger son's cranial deformity, other outlandishly high bills.

But eventually, I got a job with a crappy HMO plan (at least for me) and the kids were eventually covered by the California SCHIP program.

But of course, unlike Japan, dental was not covered by the HMO, so I bought "dental insurance. They call it insurance, but it's really more like a discount card. I went in wanting one filling and a teeth cleaning and the bill was over $1000. The "insurance" would have paid like $700 or so of it. The only fillings the plan covered were the mercury amalgam ones that most dentists won't do anymore. I ended up taking a pass on it because it was too expensive.

Now it's 3 1/2 years later, back in Japan for the last 2 years, and I just got a filling done. The total cost? $18. No I hardly had to wait in the waiting room.

The first visit was $10, the second, $8. When I paid the bill, my eyes honestly started to tear up just remembering all the pain we went through back in the states, either being robbed for crappy care, or simply not getting medical care because of the high cost.

It's such a relief to know that we won't end up on the street now just because we got sick.

I honestly don't think I can ever live in the US again. I can't handle the trauma of that kind of life anymore. Anyone who's not rich there is just dirt.

To all of you struggling without health insurance - my heart goes out to you.

The health care is aweful here, I agree!  My jaw was locked shut the other day and I basically have to just suck it up and live with only opening my mouch ~50% of the way or have a huge painful crack because I can't afford to go to the specialist and he's "out of network" so SOL to me! 

This country needs to get a president who cares and will CHANGE the health care system, not just talk about changing it. 

Good luck in Japan!!

Thank you for sharing your experience, udo.  *hugs*  I'm sorry about what you went through before, but I'm glad that you're in a good situation right now.

It's not that poor people in the U.S. are dirt, it's more like, people in the U.S. (rich and poor alike from what I can tell) don't agree that we all bear some responsibility for each other or that we are all better off when none of us experiences extreme suffering.  Individualism and all that.  What a head trip.

But there is suffering in every country, in every region, in every community, in every family and within every person.   

We were talking - about the love that's gone so
   cold and the people,
Who gain the world and lose their soul -
   they don't know - they can't see - are you one
   of them?

When you've seen beyond yourself - then you
   may find, peace of mind is waiting there -
And the time will come when you see
   we're all one, and life flows on within you and
   without you.

~ George Harrison

Oh man, can I *ever* empathize with you.

My current medical debt totals over $350,000 right now. I'll never be able to pay it off, and it counts on my credit, so it's pretty much a permanent black mark. I make minimum wage (5.85 per hour, right now, whjoopee :P) and can't work more than 32 hours in a week because I'm bipolar and (big surprise) can't afford treatment or medication.

When I was younger, I suffered from an eating disorder and got to 68 lbs...and my dad's insurance wouldn't cover me going into treatment because, to them, eating disorders were just 'children acting out' (those exact words came out of the rep we talked to). Luckily for some, certain insurance companies are starting to cover treatment for eating disorders.

Anywho...because of that, I now have heart problems, osteopenia, *hooooorrible* dental problems (I know I need to get at least 10 fillings, if not root canals by now and I still need my wisdom teeth out)...the list goes on for miles. And, I suppose I could go in for one of those pain medication trails where they do the surgery for free and then test medication on you, but I really don't want to be the one stuck with placebo!!!

Even if I could afford medical insurance, I don't qualify. I've had too many hospitalizations (because of lapses in my coverage and therefore, treatment) and am considered "too high of a risk".

I've spoken with 13 social workers to try and get on medical assistance. I've spent a cumulative total of well over 100 hours at health and human services/mhmr. If I was still in Houston, I could at least get on the Gold Card Program where I could get my medications for $5 - $10 and get certain treatments for free (my mother's on that plan) due to my low income. But here, the state's capitol, there are no programs for those with low income that can keep a job and still need medical assistance. To qualify for these programs, I'd have to be ABSOLUTELY unable (or unwilling, as most of the cases seemed to be! LAZINESS!!!) to work or have like 9 kids (How irresponsible!!!)

I'm only 24. Due to genetics and circumstances I was too young to control, I suffer from: Bipolar I, post traumatic stress disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder (it is bad enough that it affects my social functioning and sometimes my work), colitis, and poor cardiac health, among other things. The colitis manifested when I was 10, the heart problems were a by-product of the AN and became a problem when I was in my late teens, but everything else manifested when I was four due to an extremely traumatic event. Completely out of my control, and definitely something I did NOT want. Sheesh, I mean, I *hate* doctors!

But yeah...not even 25 (the real definition of 'adult' in most people's eyes), and I have accrued so much medical debt that there isn't a day when suicide doesn't enter my mind because, to me, it seems like the only way out. Of course, I realize that path is extraordinarily selfish, as I have people who care about me, but I sometimes feel like a burden on my family and my husband. Because of my fragility and inability to make a substantial amount of money, I've put a huge black mark on his credit as well...

Anywho. Feels good to rant. At least you had a place to go to. I'll be stuck in this country until I die (after all, who wants another piece of mooching, American trash? And besides that, I don't have the money to go anywhere else.). I mean, if I ever moved to a foreign country, I would just tell people I was from Texas. I hear that's better than telling them you're an American.

Honestly, without all the money hassles, it's a pretty good place...but then, money is king. And I don't have it, so I'm treated like dirt by everyone. But I can keep a job, so this joke of a welfare system won't help me out because I'm not some irresponsible jerk who has decided to be a complete drain on the system.

Lame. And, yeah, I apologize if I've offended anyone, but I've been especially frustrated with the medical system right now. I just want medication for my bipolar!!! It's really hard to manage it without! :(

I haven't seen a doctor since I was fifteen, when I got in my car accident.  I got in a second car accident in December of 2005 and was taken to the emergency room where I skidaddled before they got my information or even saw me to prevent getting a medical bill, and once again after a bad seizure in 2006.  I did the same thing then, too.

Since then I've had to take Alex to the emergency room for a scratched cornea.  He qualified for the hospital to write off the expense and the doctors gave him samples of the prescription eyedrops he needed so he wouldn't have to pay for them.  He had to pay the doctor's bill of 98 dollars, and that was it.  Fortunately this was when we both had jobs and could afford the 98 dollars.

If something goes wrong with me, I rely on Momma to figure it out and then I search the internet for remedies or wait it out.  Which really frickin' sucks 'cause every day I cough up weird colours from my lungs and I've got two chipped molars.

if you have money, the system works pretty well :) ....if you dont...well....thats a problem.

The insurance companies actually pay a LOT LOT less then a person going in alone for care, even for the exact same thing (they have deals worked out with the hospitals).

Basically, plan out your life...get an education...get a decent job...and you will be comfortable. :)

Original Post by roxykatz:

Lame. And, yeah, I apologize if I've offended anyone, but I've been especially frustrated with the medical system right now. I just want medication for my bipolar!!! It's really hard to manage it without! :(

Best of luck to you. $350K worth of medical debt in the US? I guess that translates into about $3K worth if you lived in an advanced nation... I'm almost 39, so I still have vague memories of when health care was still fairly affordable even in the US. My dad had Blue Cross and we used to be able to go to the doc pretty cheap back in the 70s. Seems that once the HMOs came on the scene everything went to hell.

Original Post by loriklorik:

if you have money, the system works pretty well :) ....if you dont...well....thats a problem.

The insurance companies actually pay a LOT LOT less then a person going in alone for care, even for the exact same thing (they have deals worked out with the hospitals).

Basically, plan out your life...get an education...get a decent job...and you will be comfortable. :)

So if 100% of the people in America follow your advice, then 100% of the people will have good jobs and be comfortable? Talk to me in another 10 or 15 years - your answer is WAY too simplistic. Am I honestly supposed to listen to advice from a 25 year old whose own brilliant plans have yet to play out? 40% of Americans are too rich and too poor to have health insurance. That is NOT a functional system.

udokier: I'm currently living in Korea and I agree with you about healthcare. I've never paid more than $3 for prescriptions here. It's amazing. Dental work is really cheap here as well. I have a bridge from back home that cost my mom $800 (after insurance coverage). I want a permanent implant (over $3000 back home, no insurance coverage because it's "cosmetic") but here I can pay 1/3 of that and don't have to worry about my bridge coming loose anymore (like it is now, for the second time in 4 months).

I'm going to grad school here in the fall and am seriously doubting whether I'll actually ever live in America again.

the tricky part of lorik's advice is the "get a decent job" part

because we can't all be lawyers, doctors, teachers, accountants, and architects (not that some of those jobs haven't also been outsourced too, but that's a different thread)

somebody has to pick up the garbage - somebody has to take care of the elderly - somebody has to work in retail

and in this country, that means that somebody has to be poor

"So if 100% of the people in America follow your advice, then 100% of the people will have good jobs and be comfortable? "

Oh, i didnt say everyone could do it. I know most people wont... i know a lot of people cant... but for those who are able to, thats how the system is set up now. The more money you have and the better coverage you have...the higher care you get (even the types of doctors and rooms you get, when you are going into major surgery you want the BEST, not the "so so"). Supply and demand...

Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

the tricky part of lorik's advice is the "get a decent job" part

because we can't all be lawyers, doctors, teachers, accountants, and architects (not that some of those jobs haven't also been outsourced too, but that's a different thread)

somebody has to pick up the garbage - somebody has to take care of the elderly - somebody has to work in retail

and in this country, that means that somebody has to be poor

I'm a translator. I'm not rich, but it's not like I make minimum wage. But Miami was a pretty pricey place to live, and supporting a wife and 2 babies is not cheap. But things are always very cut and dried and simple when you're 25, single and childless. I used to be glib at that age too.

Original Post by loriklorik:

"So if 100% of the people in America follow your advice, then 100% of the people will have good jobs and be comfortable? "

Oh, i didnt say everyone could do it. I know most people wont... i know a lot of people cant... but for those who are able to, thats how the system is set up now. The more money you have and the better coverage you have...the higher care you get (even the types of doctors and rooms you get, when you are going into major surgery you want the BEST, not the "so so"). Supply and demand...

The vast majority of insured people in the US are on HMO plans, and they give positively CRAP service for extremely high premiums in comparison to most other countries. Here my premium is $44/mo. Dr. Office visits are about $8 for me, $5 for the kids. Drugs at the pharmacy - $5 or so. Almost no wait times, I go to any doctor I like. I'll take the system here over "Cadillac" coverage in the US even. Our overall quality of life and cost of living is much better here, too, but I guess that's a topic for another day. Back to my OP - I was relating a personal experience and how I felt about it. Why do you feel the need to come in and invalidate it anyway?

haha Because people don't realize how crappy the healthcare system is here until the experience something better somewhere else or have something completely awful happen to them personally in the US    

Why didnt you figure out the finances before you found yourself in the sittuation? Thats the main reason people find themselves in bad spots...they just dont think before hand.

Before you had a kid, did you sit down and crunch the numbers to see if you could AFFORD it? Did you look at housing in miami and compare them to other areas you could get work (even if you are getting paid a lot less in other areas, the lower cost of living could very well make it worth it). Did you start saving money early (this is a BIG issue a lot of people have...a reason most people dont have retirement ...they just dont THINK. Then they suddenly sit up when they are 60 and realize they have no retirement! ...duhh...go figure).

Really....you just have to manage your life a little and plan things out. If you arent going to college or dont have some thought into the future, dont be suprised if you end up some drone garbage man making a horrible wage with no health care o.O maybe instead of drinking and "having fun", they should have sat down and thought about their life a LITTLE.

loriklorik-- Having a college educations means **** about getting a good job. I have a Bachelor's degree and it got me nothing working in the States. And managing money has nothing to do with healthcare. Emergencies arise... you can't control when you get sick.

If your house catches on fire tonight and you're covered in 2nd-3rd degree burns over most of your body and you're left with $200,000 in medical bills afterwards, are you going to say you should've saved more money or that healthcare should be better?

Why do you feel the need to come in and invalidate it anyway?

I was just pointing out how the current health care system works in america. But.... you keep saying how much cheaper the care is in japan...that makes me wonder what level of care they are giving.

Yea, it might be fast...yea, it might be cheap... but are they the same education / experience / everything else as US doctors? If they are...then why arent they over here making a lot of money??

Again, its just a supply and demand issue.... everyone cant see the best doctors (there just arent enough of them). It takes years and years of training to become a doctor...its a HUGE cost for them to become a doctor.... if they are charging you 4$ for a visit...well....yea, really makes me wonder what kind of doctor they are.

hahahaha affordable healthcare does not mean uneducated doctors. My dentist here in Korea went to Tufts Uni in Boston, MA which is a great univ.

And why should everyone want to live in America?

I have a Bachelor's degree and it got me nothing working in the States

Hehe a bachelors degree in what? My sister has a major in art!...which she can do....nothing with. Its not enough to just grab a degree from college, you have to look at the field you want to go into (its future planned growth, how much they are paying, availability of jobs...and all that other stuff). Just going to school and randomly picking a "fun" area with hopes you will just grab something when your done isnt really what im talking about...again...a LITTLE planning is needed.

Yea, emergencies happen... but thats why you *gasp* plan for emergencies? Set aside money in case you lose your job... have emergency funds...i mean really, isnt this common sense? Beyond that, most people finding themselves in bad life sittuations just didnt think. You dont just wake up a 40 year old working at minimum wage with 4 kids....its not something that happens quickly... people in that sittuation just dont think ahead and live life by "praying" things will work out. They get whats coming to them o.O

Original Post by loriklorik:

Why didnt you figure out the finances before you found yourself in the sittuation? Thats the main reason people find themselves in bad spots...they just dont think before hand.

Before you had a kid, did you sit down and crunch the numbers to see if you could AFFORD it? Did you look at housing in miami and compare them to other areas you could get work (even if you are getting paid a lot less in other areas, the lower cost of living could very well make it worth it). Did you start saving money early (this is a BIG issue a lot of people have...a reason most people dont have retirement ...they just dont THINK. Then they suddenly sit up when they are 60 and realize they have no retirement! ...duhh...go figure).

Really....you just have to manage your life a little and plan things out. If you arent going to college or dont have some thought into the future, dont be suprised if you end up some drone garbage man making a horrible wage with no health care o.O maybe instead of drinking and "having fun", they should have sat down and thought about their life a LITTLE.

I went to college and got my BA, and I did some looking into different cities and unfortunately did not consider the insane cost of health care - as I said, this was soon after we had returned to the states, before I had a steady job again. Honestly, I don't even know why I should need to answer you. Let me know when you're pushing 40 how flawlessly all your planning worked out. Things seldom go according to plan. A lot of people bought houses 50 miles from work and didn't plan for $4 gas when they bough big SUVs, but I wouldn't get all smug and snotty with them. Whatever. Your 25 years of experience has obviously made you very wise. There were family reasons why we chose Miami, and there were other reasons unrelated to health care and finances for why we came back to Japan, but I'm sure as hell glad we did. BTW - garbage men make pretty decent money in most cities - and plumbers and electricians often make about $80K per year. I know tons of college-educated people working at Kinkos and Starbucks. Just sayin'

 My dentist here in Korea went to Tufts Uni in Boston, MA which is a great univ.

hehe dentist is a "little" different then something like a pain specialist or heart surgeon....yea, basic health care could be made more affordable. If you need a flu shot, it shouldnt cost you an arm and a leg (and it doesnt).

But...anything dealing with more focused expertise...well...thats where the bill starts to climb.