American Social Classes

I was watching Oprah last night and they were talking about social classes. They say this is a "Tabu topic" in America, but I'm all about taking risks sooooo... what class do you consider yourself to be? I'm really not sure but I think I'm in the "Upper lower class" if that is even a class! I grew up in a mobile home until I was 13 then we moved into a 4 bedroom house w/ a pool. My parents got divorced when I was 15 and my dad kept the house. Me and my mom stayed in a 2 bedroom apt and she worked 2 jobs to support us. A year later, she got remarried, we moved to 2 bedroom house with my stepdad. I still live with them and I have a job making $10 an hour. My mom now owns her own business and my step-dad works in a warehouse making a few dollars more per hour than me.

They were also saying that a persons weight is a big symbol as to what class they belong to. They say obese people are more likely to be lower class. They also said that this has changed throughout the years where if you were obese it meant you had a lot of money to eat a lot!!

What are your opinions on this and do you think it is easy to go from "rags to riches" in America?

I personally think if you have a higher education you are more likely to be in a higher class.

I didn't see the show, but I agree that it's a taboo topic -- everybody likes to think that our society provides equal opportunity for all.  It is more equal than it used to be, but there is still a huge advantage for those lucky enough to be born into wealth. 

I think I'm in the middle -- but most people think that.

I grew up in a 3 br house in a pretty rural area that was close (30 min) to a small city.  My parents divorced when I was 14.  They sold the house.  I lived with my dad so that I could go to the better of the 2 high schools where they each moved.  At first we were in an apartment, but then he bought a 3br house and my grandmother lived with us too.

Last year I got my masters in library studies and a month later started my first library job.  I think my salary is just above the median income for americans, but since I now live in a very rural and somewhat economically depressed area, the money goes further than it would in a city.  Average housing cost here is $400-$600 a month for a 3 br house, which is what I have now.

I think it would be great if there were people on these boards who wanted to do something to help -- like, what if we could build a calorie count house for habitat for humanity?  Burn calories while you help build a life for a family....  Not sure what it would take for us to do something like that since we're all spread out.

*think* I'm probably middle to upper-middle. My girlfriend and I are getting awfully close to a six digit income, which isn't bad for two people in their thirties.

I grew up in an upper-middle class neighborhood, where the school district was possibly THE Best in the State, the kids knew it (and were snooty), and there were more SUVs than any other sort of car. I grew up with soccer moms as the norm.

So.. yeah.

Another thing they were talking about is that only 1% of Americans are in the "extremely rich" class and that they hold 40% of the money in america!! That REALLY shocked me!! I can't believe what people would do with so much money!! Thay just have it sitting in bank accounts when there are people on the streets that REALLY need that money!!!! If they shared more of their money with people in lower class we would all be more equal!

Edit: Uh OH.. I just got a feeling tht this will stir up some controversy! LOL

BUMP... come on people. I want to know your opinions. I am very interested in this topic.

lilbory,

That statistic doesn't surprise me at all--I used to be a branch manager of a bank in a social-class mixed town in NJ--people had *maybe* two nickels to rub together, or, as this one couple had it set up, $500,000 in a non-interest paying checking account.  Its amazing.

I consider myself upper-middle.  I live in a upper-middle class suburb of NYC (one town over is the "super upper middle class town"), work on Wall Street, and have a good nest egg that I'm looking to blow on buying a house.  I grew up in lower-middle circumstances, and am working and saving as much as I can so that my children won't have to deal with economic hardship as much as I did.

I agree that there are definate class divisions in America.  I also think that the divisions are widening, as more people in the lower income strata strive to appear as though they have more money than they actually do.  The fact that the average family carries about $7,000 in credit card debt each month is scary to me.  The fact that incomes aren't keeping pace with housing prices is scary. And the fact that people are expected to personally fund a greater share of their retirement (without a commessurate {sic} increase in income) is scary! Even scarier is the fact that the members of the current administration feel the need to squander our current wealth and the wealth of our children through tax breaks and unsustainable spending.

I think this country is great for the fact that if one has nothing, is smart, works hard and encounters a little luck, one can make a significant change in circumstances.  This is in contrast to many countries of the world, where class mobility is virtually non-existent.  The fact that there is an ever-growing class of ultra-wealthy isn't a bad thing. What's bad is that its becoming harder to make the transition from the lower class to the higher classes.

My $.02.

When there are people living in the streets and in deplorable conditions in both of our great countries...how can anyone even suggest that there AREN'T separate classes - I think that's been that way since we got started.  Canada is more a socialist country so perhaps we are better off in some ways - for example, I was making $1,200/month back in 1989 and when I gave birth to my first daughter, my total out of pocket expense was $25.00 for the upgrade to a semi private room - that's from the first doctor office visit to the day I took her home.  But other than that, I am part of the disappearing middle class - slipping to lower middle class everytime inflation rises and my wage stays the same.  I am blessed that I have a nice home, food in my fridge at all times, decent clothing and can afford some leisure activities.  :)  There is my 3 cents!! 

I have to agree. 

Right now, things are working entirely in favor of the investor class while the working class is losing ground. 

And the nature of the working class has changed in the last 6 or 7 years too -- much less manufacturing and skilled trades, much more lower skill service industry jobs.  The job market has changed to the disadvantage of those at the lower end.

And don't get me started about how student loan money has been cut.

Yes, they were saying that the middle class population is growing and the "class ladder" is getting longer! Also, what are your feelings as to the opinions of people that say that obesity is a symbol of being lower class. Do you find this to bet true? I think it is somewhat true because most lower class working people are so busy working their butts off to think about their weight. Meanwhile richer people have their own chefs and personal trainers!

One thing I say about this is that it costs money to eat healthfully. 

The produce at the grocery store that I use is typically great quality--it is fresh, lasts a long time in my fridge or on my countertop, and I do buy a lot of it, since I've been watching what I put in my mouth.  Downside?  I spend about $150/week for two adults (okay, so my husband eats:  A LOT).

Meanwhile, if I shop at the store where I could save $20-$30 on my bill per week, the produce isn't as fresh, is sometimes going bad, and the store is more disorganized and crowded, and the staff is less helpful.  To me, right now, its worth the $20 so I can be less stressed when shopping and feel better about my purchases when I get home.

I don't know about richer people having their own chefs and personal trainers--maybe the ultra-wealthy.  But my husband and I are well into the six figures, and we pinch pennies and wouldn't spend so frivously.  Also, I work with a lot of people who are earning over $1 million/year-- they might have nannies, or an au pair, but they don't have personal chefs and trainers.  One thing they do have is (usually) a spouse that raises the children and plays the typical June Cleaver (or Mr. Mom!) role. And that person has the responsibility for ensuring that the family eats well.

defrog, so in your opinion. Do you feel that usually healthy people are in a higher class. I mean, do you think people in a higher class are more likely to be at a healthy weight than lower class people?

I do

hence the "value menu" options at fast food places...

you can be really really really poor, but still be able to afford all those calories,

but you can't afford nutrition - or at least, it's a lot harder if you're in a city and have no access to land to grow your own food

Given better options for healthcare, access to better nutrition and less stress (am assuming if you are a gazillionare you have less stress, maybe not), I would have to guess that yes, health is related to economic class.

Eating well does cost more, McDonald's is actually very cheap when you need to feed the family on very little money. But , I think, there is a need for what is referred to as comfort food when you are stressed and feel like you have no future, no options, no way out.

It's not substantially more expensive to buy wholesome food, but people eat with their emotions, sometimes, instead of their mouths.

Right, nomo, chicken is healthy, but if you don't have a pot to cook it in...

and you can't really assume that people have access to a functioning kitchen with clean water and electricity -- people get their power turned off all the time when they can't pay their bills...

I think it's a total lifestyle thing as well as we have learned here - how many low income people can afford gym memberships and soccer  etc for their children, how many low income people work two jobs and aren't home for supper time to cook a healthy meal?  How many of us could afford just a roof over our heads if we had to support a family on minimum wage with no benefits? 

I think I agree with roxanned--its a lifestyle thing, and people have to CHOOSE to be healthy.  I work with PLENTY of obese people, heck, I was one of them, even as recently as two and a half months ago.  This was a result of my lifestyle choices:  working 18 hour days, not getting any exercise, and eating like crap.

But I'm writing this as I eat my lunch that I got from my office cafeteria: grilled salmon with wilted spinach and fingerling potato slices, with a side of steamed veggies (broccoli, asparagus, red peppers) and a baked potato, with lowfat yogurt for dessert, water for beverage.  How many people can get this from their cafeteria at work?  I certainly wasn't able to at my old job, where I was paid significantly less!!  How many people even have a cafeteria at work?

But I made a decision, nine months ago, that I was going to be healthy.  That I was going to lose this extra weight that I've been carrying forever, once and for all.  Perhaps as a result of my socioeconomic status, the choices were available to me in the past, I simply chose not to choose them.  Now I know better, and am learning the right way to eat.

I'm not a sociologist, but at the risk of offending people reading this, I think that someone who is very poor and remains that way 1) has not taken advantage of opportunities presented to them, or 2) has fallen on hard luck and hasn't figured out how to get out of their quandry, or 3) they just don't care, due to nature or life experience beating them down. 

On points 1) and 2), if someone is spending all his/her time thinking about paying rent, he/she is not thinking about food.  Think about how much time you invest in counting calories!  It becomes second nature after a while, but at the start? I was obsessed!

On point 3), I think that in this society, if one has given up on attaining a better life for themselves, s/he has probably given up on self-maintenance, as well.  Some people just don't care, which, in my judgement, a sad state, but there's nothing I can do to change their attitude--that comes from inside.

Wow--rambling on a bit on this topic--I need to do some work before I get fired! :0

i do agree that people who are in a lower social class have more of a chance of eating unhealthfully.. i mean i went to the store to buy grapes yesterday and it cost e 8 dollars..but i coul dhave gotten 2 HUGE bags of chips for 5 bucks.... if you:re worried about money, but need to feed your kids enough you're going to buy the chips... i mean when i even think about when i am in unversity and budgeting there were some weeks i ate my no name brand corn flakes dry until the next week's budget started and i could afford some milk... of course this was totallymy own fault for splurging on soething unnnecessary, but it is neessary to eat and the two bags of 5 dollar chips are going to last a heck of a lot longer than a sall box of 8 dollar grapes.

i havent read everything, but just want to make a comment about the whole "1% of americans having 40% of the wealth" and "they shared more of their money with people in lower class we would all be more equal!"

lots of people who are wealthy donate tons of money to charity every year.  this helps them stay wealthy b/c they get a huge tax benefit. its in their best interest to donate money.   most of them are well educated, entreprenuer types, hard working individuals who've come a long way.  look at oprah, bill gates... I could go on.  I think it is really unfair to make a comment like "if they shared their money with people of lower classes we would all be more equal"    especially when there are a lot of people at lower classes doing nothing with themselves, living off of welfare etc.   

at the same time, I think people who are in lower classess might not have the  what I would call "EQUAL OPPORTUNITY"-ie/ good schools, good infrastructure etc .  that is not the "wealthy's" fault.  That is a government problem.  Look at Katrina.  Perfect example.  Government is a huge to blame for the large class discrepency in america.  

Ultimately, I'm a firm believe in the following : We cant expect people to do anything for us.  If we want to be somewhere in life, we need to make that happen for ourselves.  We need to exhaust our resources, or move somewhere where there are resources, we need to get our butts into geer, stop making excuses and blaming our situation on circumstances.  We have the Power to change our lives.   So stop pointing the finger.

my parents have worked their butts off to be where they are today. they donate 20% of their income to charity every year.  It really upsets me when people expect that wealthier people can save the world.  we can only do so much.



 

also, if you are in the middle class or upper middle or whatever, you believe certains things - like, you believe you can get ahead, you believe that there will be opportunities -- you believe this because you learned it from your parents or whomever raised you - and you believe it because you lived it, you grew up without hunger and homelessness

how long would it take for you to experience things differently so that you would believe differently?

if you lost your job and could not find another, no matter how hard you tried, no matter what education you attained, you still could not land a job that would pay your bills....  how long would it take before you believed that you could not get ahead, that you would not have opportunities to improve your life...  what if you grew up seeing and believing that? living that?

Think how hard it is to change your beliefs about food.  Imagine how hard it would be to change your beliefs about what you can or can't make of your life....

Just because something is hard, doesn't mean it's impossible.  But for those who are at the bottom of the s/e ladder, there isn't always a bootstrap to grab, and our culture does not make it a priority at all to help make it any better for them.

jawild--preach it!

nomo--agree 100%!!

To a large degree, I think that financial success comes from the inside.  Just as most successes in life--