What is the American Stereotype?

So these kids came over from france and visited our french class. They said the typical american stereotype is that Americans are all very very fat.

If you aren't in the U.S, what do you think of when you here 'American?'

Original Post by moonikins:

Iggy, these were white people of German heritage who lived in central Illinois. The ghetto didn't exist for them.  This occurred prior to WWII.

Was jealousy a part of it? Yes. Is it as simple as just being jealous? No. Was my aunt made to feel like an outcast? Yes. Was she leaving her culture? Yes. Was she given any kind of support from her family? No, not really. Did they still love her? Yes. Were they proud of her? Yes.

You asked for an explanation as to how getting an education and a job equates to turning your back on your culture. I gave you a specific example that I witnessed in my family. You then just discounted it with a label. You made it seem as if her experience wasn't valid.

 Mooni, I totally get your point.  But she wasn't really turning her back on her heritage, culture or anything else....they were just accusing her of it.  There's the difference.  People can accuse you of anything they want to, but it doesn't make it true.

well, people have choices to make

nearly all choices come with opportunity costs, time costs, monetary costs... maybe even an interpersonal/relationship cost

mooni's aunt made her choice - sounds like she made the right one for her

i'm not sure but it sort of sounds like there is an implication that the U.S. should abandon its culture and pursue the culture of the native american populations (never mind that we have 561 tribes) so that native americans could be successful AND remain inside of their culture

and never mind that people do get to decide for themselves what counts as success

Original Post by ignayshus:

Original Post by moonikins:

Iggy & Nomo, I'm not disagreeing with either of you. I am all for personal responsiblity. I've had to change many things in my life. I've had to overcome obstacles.

What I'm really trying to get across is that it is arrogant to judge those who can't do it, or have trouble starting. I also believe it is our responsibility to help those who do need help and to stop perpetuating the behavior that exploits or oppresses.

If someone believes something is impossible because of years/decades/centuries of their people being exploited, I believe it is arrogant for someone outside of the situation to just sit back and judge them saying they should "just pull themselves up by their bootstraps".

That makes no sense. Remembering that fair doesn't exist, if their is a path, regardless of the difficulty, to advance your interests and you don't take it, whose fault is that? Your own.

Iggy, it does make sense that it is arrogant for someone outside of the situation to sit back and judge. Judging others behavior is arrogant. Judging someone without walking in their shoes and really knowing their circumstances is arrogant.

 

Oh... so you would say that it's unfair to judge David Duke, Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler because it would be arrogant of you unless you've walked in their shoes and really know their circumstances.

Gotcha.

 Actually you just Godwined yourself!

*wiping sweat off of brow after deleting self-righteous retort*

Original Post by kathygator:

*offers Iggy a hanky* you seem to have Godwined all over yourself, there, Ig.

Danke.

You know it had to be said. I really dislike the widespread use of relativism that I see today.

Two of the worst arguments are actually opposites:

You can't speak about drugs, because you've never been an addict. You don't know what it's like, you don't know what they've been through.

and

You can't speak against drugs, because you did drugs. How can you tell kids not to do drugs, that makes you a hypocrite.

If people followed that line of bs, then nobody could talk about anything.

Can anyone else taste the delicious irony in this being a thread about 'the American stereotype' and the conclusion reached (several times) that it's arrogant to judge other people?

:D

it's yummy!

Original Post by moonikins:

Original Post by ignayshus:

Original Post by moonikins:

Iggy & Nomo, I'm not disagreeing with either of you. I am all for personal responsiblity. I've had to change many things in my life. I've had to overcome obstacles.

What I'm really trying to get across is that it is arrogant to judge those who can't do it, or have trouble starting. I also believe it is our responsibility to help those who do need help and to stop perpetuating the behavior that exploits or oppresses.

If someone believes something is impossible because of years/decades/centuries of their people being exploited, I believe it is arrogant for someone outside of the situation to just sit back and judge them saying they should "just pull themselves up by their bootstraps".

That makes no sense. Remembering that fair doesn't exist, if their is a path, regardless of the difficulty, to advance your interests and you don't take it, whose fault is that? Your own.

Iggy, it does make sense that it is arrogant for someone outside of the situation to sit back and judge. Judging others behavior is arrogant. Judging someone without walking in their shoes and really knowing their circumstances is arrogant.

Oh... so you would say that it's unfair to judge David Duke, Saddam Hussein and Adolf Hitler because it would be arrogant of you unless you've walked in their shoes and really know their circumstances.

Gotcha.

Actually you just Godwined yourself!

*wiping sweat off of brow after deleting self-righteous retort*

You're aware that that's not actually a counter argument correct? It's really just a measure for when to lock down a thread.

Of course, if it makes you feel better I can use another example.

It's unfair to judge a person that's drowned puppies, because you've never had to drown puppies before. It would be arrogant of you to do so unless you've walked a mile in their shoes... or drowned a burlap bag full of puppies.

*slurps up nomo's delicious - pregnant pause- irony*

*considers*

it seems to me that we should all accept that judging people is not fair or right, but we all do it anyways.

Godwined

@270

judging your judgmental assessment of the judgment and the act of judging.

Original Post by ignayshus:

@270

judging your judgmental assessment of the judgment and the act of judging.

DON'T YOU JUDGE ME, MISTER!

well diversity of opinion and how anyone who disagrees with said opinion is naive

Original Post by hkellick:

Original Post by ignayshus:

@270

judging your judgmental assessment of the judgment and the act of judging.

DON'T YOU JUDGE ME, MISTER!

RESPONSE

dey tuk 'er jerbs!!!

Well Iggy, I knew you'd come up with a valid reason to Godwin.

Anyway, my whole point was that when someone makes a statement that other people should "just get over it", should "just pull themselves up by their bootstraps", etc. that the person making this statement is in essence judging those other people and finding them inferior. In other words, the statement maker is making themselves feel superior because they aren't in said situation.

This is not helpful, it is unproductive and it is more a reflection on the person making the statement as being insensitive in the very least.

It would be more helpful and more productive to help break the barriers for the oppressed/exploited than just telling them to pull themselves up and feeling superior to them.

Another point I was trying to make that seemed to escape you was that people who are breaking away from an entrenced situation are often ostracized socially and/or personally from their families. Jealousy is involved, but so is fear.

Original Post by ignayshus:

dey tuk 'er jerbs!!!

 lmao. i love that episode!