Anger towards veg*ns?

I'm a recent veggie (3 months now, mostly vegan). I was really surprised reading a thread on another forum (Food- "Milk- is it healthy?") that a lot of anger was expressed towards people expressing their negative views on dairy (which is what the topic of the thread was!), and veggies in general. For those who have been veg*n longer than I, is this vehemence common? What has been your experience?

I was one of the people getting angry at the 'anti-milk' people on the food board.  Not because they were vegan but  because some of the views were rather extreme & unnecessarily scaremongering.   I think if someone posted a thread here asking 'are potatoes healthy' and I waded in with some woolly diatribe about how they are related to the Deadly Nightshade and are also toxic in certain conditions ... (both true, incidentally)....  then I'd expect to be swatted down as taking things out of proportion.   

Not really IRL, in my experience, but on here, yes.  It's easier to be nasty to folks you can't see!  IRL people may think it but probably tend to be more reserved about stating their opinion. 

It think it's because some people can get very defensive if they think they are being told what they choose to eat is bad (cruel, unhealthy, environmentally devastating, etc.)

And, gi-jane, just because the views weren't endorsed by the National Dairy Council doesn't make them extreme or scaremongering.  Just sayin'.

In my 8 years of being vegetarian I've had a lot of negative responses. I don't bring it up unless I'm asked, so its kind of annoying when I'm out eating with people and someone pipe up "hey why aren't you eating any meat?" and I respond casually that I'm vegetarian, then they get all angry about it for no good reason. Now, don't get me wrong, it doesn't happen often.

I find that Veg*ns are actually more at fault for getting angry than omnivores (though I hate to admit it) about the opposite side's food choices. But again, we're not all guilty, just a few bad-apples.

I only get angry when people proselytize their beliefs in any form.  And yes, this definitely includes eating habits.

It's like, OK, I get it, you're vegan, does it have to be part of every conversation you have?!

I have nothing against vegans what-so-ever, but when people throw it in your face constantly, it gets annoying (same thing with religion, or anything else people are emphatic about).

Talking about food or veganism constantly would be annoying.  However if someone brought up food (such as what restaurant shall we go to, or what shall I bring to the potluck) then I don't think there is a problem with then talking about your veg*nism.  And, no, you can't get vegan options at every restaurant.  At least where I live it is very difficult and there are very few options.  Some places you have to resort to ordering a side salad and hold the cheese and bacon, but some places don't even offer that.  For example if everyone in my office was going to a BBQ joint, I would expect to not to be able to eat there so I would probably decline to go.  I don't want to watch everyone else eat while I sit there with nothing... oh  wait, I guess I could get a pickle .

gi-jane, as far as I can see people were responding to the topic at hand. No one said don't use animal products. All involved were giving their views on whether or not milk is healthy- the stated question- and those whose views on this differed from the majority view were told, essentially, to go back to their own forum, their thoughts were not wanted. No one had mentioned not eating animal products, or being vegan, or anything inflammatory.

I was really surprised by that.

Original Post by fuzzys:

Talking about food or veganism constantly would be annoying.  However if someone brought up food (such as what restaurant shall we go to, or what shall I bring to the potluck) then I don't think there is a problem with then talking about your veg*nism.  And, no, you can't get vegan options at every restaurant.  At least where I live it is very difficult and there are very few options.  Some places you have to resort to ordering a side salad and hold the cheese and bacon, but some places don't even offer that.  For example if everyone in my office was going to a BBQ joint, I would expect to not to be able to eat there so I would probably decline to go.  I don't want to watch everyone else eat while I sit there with nothing... oh  wait, I guess I could get a pickle .

Those were only the comments I heard today, so they were easy examples.  I'm kinda' curious if I started paying attention how many times a day she mentions it.  I would think at least 10.  I've been away from my desk all day, so I only have heard the 2 so far.  Either way, this person just annoys me in general, so I think it just makes me focus on every annoying habit.

I can't think of any other times that a person's diet preferences have bothered me.  Other people's choices have no impact on my life, so I let it be their personal choice.... as long as they don't get on my case for my choices.  :)

I guess I'm curious from vegetarians and vegans if, in general, they have had people react angrily towards them because of their food choices. Since I've been veggie (and mostly vegan, still trying), I've definitely had backlash from my family. It is interesting to me that I get all kinds of criticism and angry remarks about my food choices, when I'm one of very few in the family at a healthy weight, with no lifestyle-related health problems. I guess I had anticipated this from my family (warriors of the Standard American Diet, that they are), even though I try to remain as quiet as possible on the subject. But, I hadn't anticipated it from the population in general!

People will have their views.
Don't take it offensively ...
People hate.
It's human nature..
*wink wink Gi-Jane*

Original Post by jsdamdam:

I guess I'm curious from vegetarians and vegans if, in general, they have had people react angrily towards them because of their food choices.  

In my experience only on CC.

Original Post by veganmamma:

Original Post by jsdamdam:

I guess I'm curious from vegetarians and vegans if, in general, they have had people react angrily towards them because of their food choices.  

In my experience only on CC.

I've been a vegetarian for 14 years plus, and as far as I can remember have had only one or two experiences with someone showing an angry reaction about it, even my mother (staunch omnivore) was more interested in learning about what to serve at dinners when my husband and I are going to be there. Even when I've travelled to places where meat-eating is a big part of the culture, I get mostly puzzlement, not resentment.  But in the year or so I've been on CC there have been some amazingly angry flame wars. 

Dietary choices have almost always been matters of religion, a touchy subject at best.  Protestant (temperance), Catholic (Lent), Hindu (vegetarian & temperance), Jewish (kosher), Muslim (halal), Mormon (temperance and caffeine), seventh day adventist (vegetarian).  Etc.  These are distinctives that set a sect apart from the rest of society.  They are a source of pride and distinction among the sect, but can also lead to animosity with the rest of society.  And look at the resulting carnage down through the ages...

The flash point is hyperbolic rhetoric, which quickly ignites all the other differences into a firestorm.  MILK IS BAD DO NOT DRINK IT.  Who is this judgemental person preaching this untruth? Or truth, depending on who you are.  Vegan, vegetarian, animal rights, animist - it doesn't matter who waved the red flag, the reaction is the same.  The hyperbole polarizes everyone and sets off a war.

Since I was involved in some of this, I'm thinking about how to defuse it in the future.  I'm on these boards for nutritional information, after all, not to pick fights.   Foremost would be not responding to the baiting.  A comment in bold caps by some junior high kid (spelling is usually a giveaway) will not deprive me of my daily cheese and yogurt.  It's not even worthy of a response.  I need to maintain a more pluralist attitude - not "us versus them", but we're all here trying to lose a few pounds.  At least I hope we all are.

in real life i haven't been insulted for my veganism. people are weirded out by it, sure. but i have not been verbally attacked.

now on cc, on the other hand, people *ahemTHHQahem* are perfectly comfortable hiding behind their computer screen and flaming the crap out of people who don't share their beliefs.

You know ewwxroflzz I learned how to be a flamer on sports boards as a matter of survival. I'm sorry you were the victim, but I took the bait on your pus comment. I don't even disagree with it, but it IMPLIES a public health hazard. For me that raised the red flag. Beyond this point there could be no further discussion of milk's benefits, only its dangers.

Again, I apologize. I was rude.

Hello, I admit that I'm ignorant of the difference between Vegetarian & Veggan but don't understand the anger about any choices we individuels make. I'm one who eats real butter, fat on my meat, and half & half in my coffee but only if it is natural & organic. I avoid margerine and other "fake" foods; and you can bet I raise some eyebrows but (so far) no anger. I'm sorry for the way you were treated. I'm one who basically believes that milk is great. However, I do believe it is not for everyone and can be unhealthy for some. I find the governments food programs for mothers & children discriminatory when someone can not get substitue foods for the "covered" foods, such as soy in place of milk for mom or child. We need to support each other and not try to make everyone else the same as us. Best of Luck, Grandma Patsu

thhq- it shows a lot of class to apologize like that. I have a tendency to be defensive myself, but I'm working on it:)

patsu- generally, vegetarians do not eat meat (but often will still consume dairy and eggs), while vegans do not consume any animal products. And I agree with you that government food programs are sorely lacking!

As a meat eater who just happened to see this thread on the "recent forum discussions" box on my screen, I thought I'd throw in my own two cents before wandering back over into "my" forums...

I think a lot of the anger and defensiveness stems from the vegan holier-than-thou attitude that a lot (NOT ALL!) of vegans and veggies have.  It then becomes not just a conversation about milk's benefits/disadvantages but more of a "I'm better than you because you eat these disgusting things" sort of thing.  And people don't really like feeling judged like that.  In real life I've had several veggie/vegan people comment on what I'm eating, and they come off as very superior.  I think a lot of animal product consumers who have been in that position tend to get defensive a little faster than is necessary, but I don't think that it usually has anything to do with the vegan lifestyle, more just that they've been exposed to an antogonistic vegan attitude.  Really,  aside from being annoyed at the difficulty of finding a restaurant everyone can eat at, I really don't care about veggies/vegans one way or the other, (my macrobiotic friends are usually even more difficult, actually).  I do, however, take offense when someone acts superior about a personal choice of mine.

In any case, I'm sure there are actually some people out there who just don't want to hear anything bad said about milk, in which case they have some sort of personal problem.  (Everyone at some point in life has pointed out the the hot dog their friend is eating is probably made from rat feet, or that the twinkie they have in their lunch would survive a nuclear explosion...) In general, though, I think the anger that comes about is just general defensiveness against judgy-ness, either actual or perceived.

*takes a bow, steps off soap box, scurries back to meat-friendly Weight Loss Forum* 

Original Post by thhq:

You know ewwxroflzz I learned how to be a flamer on sports boards as a matter of survival. I'm sorry you were the victim, but I took the bait on your pus comment. I don't even disagree with it, but it IMPLIES a public health hazard. For me that raised the red flag. Beyond this point there could be no further discussion of milk's benefits, only its dangers.

Again, I apologize. I was rude.

that's okay. :)

I think anyone who thinks it is their place to argue someone else's food choice, is deluded. That goes both ways, meat eaters being disrespectful and vegans who preach to others that they shouldn't be eating meat. To each their own and there are too many things to worry about in this world to be worrying about what someone else has in their plates.

 

Just my two cents.

this analogy that i am about to point out is not really on the same level but this thread made me think about. being a veg turned to pesc i get comments both ways. being mixed race i have had not so appropriate comments from blacks & whites, for some reason the spanish/latinos have never had a problem with me. i have more of an issue with the race thing as that is not dependent on any choices i make, but i've come to realize that people will have a problem about anything about you that's none of their business.

i have to listen to one person in work talk about how eating meat is what made us so smart as a species, etc, how you cannot get all the nutrients one needs on a vegetarian diet, all the usual stuff. and he says a lot of that while im eating!!!! not so long ago i had a vegetarian tell me that there is no such thing as a pescatarian/pescetarian even though i pointed out to her that the word is in webster's dictionary. (its agreed that vegetarians dont eat fish, even though some people call themselves vegetarian but eat fish, i don't, i make sure to correct anyone that thinks so, so let's not even bring that debate up please, please, please)