antidepressants don't work??

I know a lot of us on this site take antidepressants so I thought this might be interesting to discuss.  I just read this article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/feb/26 /mentalhealth.medicalresearch

So, we've all been fooled?

It says placebos work just as well, which means to an extent, Prozac does work, even if it works like a placebo.  It's still doing it's job to make people a little less depressed.

Aside from that tidbit, I never believed in antidepressants.  And don't anyone give me any **** 'cause I've had plenty today about bologna and rent, I will not let you hound me about my [dis]beliefs in antidepressants.  I've never been on them, I've never been diagnosed with depression, and I will ensure things stay that way.

Hmm...not really what I was expecting from someone, but to each their own!  I don't believe in bologna or rent...it sound like you probably have already had those conversations though...

I have been on a whole boatload of them...all kinds from anti-psychotics (laugh if you must, it was a mistake on the psychiatrist's behalf) to plain old antidepressants from when I was 18 to when I was 28.

Do you know what worked for me?

belief...faith....in myself and in the world.  Nothing EVER worked....I never had it in my mind that when I took a pill all of a sudden the whole world would be roses again. Every day when I took those pill, it was a chore.

Finally, I said enough's enough.  I was either going to die or live.  

I opted to live, and it was all because of my mind...my determination that I would "heal" myself.  So...I agree with CD.  Pills are ****.  It's all in the mind.  If you believe those pills will help...of course they will.  If you don't....then they won't. 

Tatjana... I so believe what you just said.  I think it was Abraham Lincoln that said "People are just about as happy as they make up their minds to be."  Incidentally, he also said, "I am a success today because I had a friend who believed in me and I didn't have the heart to let him down...” which convinces me that  most of us don't really need psychiatrists, just good friends.

Also, when you accept that don't need anything, then you truly have everything. When you know that you already have enough, that you already are enough, that everything is as it should be, then your life will be rich indeed.

There are also too many people that think that one should never need to feel pain, sadness, or disappointment.  They believe life should be filled with "joy, laughter, satisfaction."  Feelings... hmmm... "good ones, bad ones, happy ones, sad ones. Wouldn't it be great if we only had glad ones?"  Feelings are the RESULT of our thoughts, not the cause.  If we direct our thoughts, we direct our feelings.

I wish my "feelings" were as easy as everyone is making them out to be.  I don't think the point of the story was to discount the illness...it was to discount the treatment of the illness.  I agree that antidepressants have been the answer to any moment of sadness for some.  In my experience depression has been filled with not only sadness, but guilt, anger and exhaustion.  Some of us have not been lucky enough to "cure ourselves."  As hard as I have tried over the years, I have not been able to trick my mind into thinking that I don't have the thoughts in my head.  I wouldn't expect someone with cancer to cure themselves, why would someone expect a depressed person to cure themselves.  I believe in the power of the mind, but I don't think it results in miracles.  Just like I would tell a cancer patient...take the medicine and try to be positive.  It's a combination...not just one or the other.  This may be what everyone is getting at, but it's not the impression I am getting.

this isn't really news.  the single most comprehensive study on the success of treatments for common mental illnesses, including depression, looked at outcomes for over 5000 individuals and several different treatment models, including psychoactive drug treatment, talk therapy, and holistic treatment.  the only predictor of improved health was the participants' beliefs in the treatment they were receiving.  basically, if you believe that you need antidepressants, then antidepressants will work; if you believe you need to eat well and exercise, then eating well and exercising will work.  if, on the other hand, you take your antidepressants because your doctor says you should, but you think it's crap, then you won't get better.

Tatjana: Anti-psychotics are not SSRI's nor are they used to treat depression. They help manage symptoms of schizoaffective & Bipolar disorders. You mentioned you were prescribed them by mistake, but I clarified since the article is about SSRI's.

 I assume everyone else is refering to depression & SSRI's since that's what the article is about. Unfortunately for some of us, psychiatric disorders are not managable with just positive thinking & emotions. People like me require medication to function & prevent the brain damaged caused by our illness.

I think it's probable that SSRI's are not more effective than placebo in the general population, however I also think it's probable that a percentage of the population have a unipolar disorder that requires medication.

There is a difference between "bad feelings" or situational depression & the chronic depression & suicide ideation due to a psychiatric illness.

 

 

I would say that you shouldn't believe everything that you read. What are the qualifications of the scientists doing this study.
How much data did they actually go through?
How long did their study go on for?
How many patients actually taking these drugs did they interview?

Do you really believe that it would have taken 30 odd years before someone other than the manufacturing company went through the numbers in the clinical trials? These data sets are gone over by multiple different researching companies over and over and over again.

I have a hard time believing scientific studies that have been coming out. I believe I'd need more than this study to make my decision.

That being said, I believe there are anti-depressants that work for some people and that don't work for others. I also believe that these drugs are way overprescribed and there should be a longer screening process before they are given out.

They work for me.

And definitely not a placebo effect, because at the time I did not know I was being given them.

Depression is a chemical imbalance. People who don't believe in it are idiots. 

whew!  I was starting to think I was crazy!!  I just can't believe this study is actually being published.  It just sounds like a bunch of doodoo!!

Anyone who doesn't believe antidepressants work is welcome to review the stats on teenage suicide, which started going up after black-box warnings appeared on antidepressants (which led to a decrease in their use for that population).

Or you could spend one week with my ex while he's not medicated, and one week with him while he is. You'd be able to tell the difference, believe me!

I know that for some they are required in order to live a happy life, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Chemical imbalances are real things. Medication does help people, but I also think that some do not need the medication's help if they have ability to recognize their problems and the determination to do something about it.

Original Post by kell115:

I wish my "feelings" were as easy as everyone is making them out to be. I don't think the point of the story was to discount the illness...it was to discount the treatment of the illness. I agree that antidepressants have been the answer to any moment of sadness for some. In my experience depression has been filled with not only sadness, but guilt, anger and exhaustion. Some of us have not been lucky enough to "cure ourselves." As hard as I have tried over the years, I have not been able to trick my mind into thinking that I don't have the thoughts in my head. I wouldn't expect someone with cancer to cure themselves, why would someone expect a depressed person to cure themselves. I believe in the power of the mind, but I don't think it results in miracles. Just like I would tell a cancer patient...take the medicine and try to be positive. It's a combination...not just one or the other. This may be what everyone is getting at, but it's not the impression I am getting.

 Ha ha ha ha ha....You have NO idea what I have been through and what brought me to the many years of medication.  You are as strong as you believe you are, you will get through what you believe you will.  Believe me...I have been there...I have opted for suicide 3 times in my life.  My mom hated me.....I have no qualms...I was raped...I was abused sexually by a man and a woman...I was confused, I was told I was not wanted in this world.

Dude.......YOU CAN get through what you put your mind to.  I'm not lucky.  I never have been lucky...I never will be.  My life is what I put into it.  Your life is what you put into it.  I never"cured" myself.  I still have feelings of sadness and longing and feelings of regret and happiness and joy and pleasure...you just have to use them all in conjunction with each other.  Americans today want a fix NOW....feeling sad?  No problem...take a pill.  Can't get a hard on?  No problem...take a pill.  Headache?  No worries....there's a pill for that too.

Treatment???  I have given my answer...it only works because you believe it works.  When it doesn't work...it's because you're not believing in it.  I also believe one can cure their cancer through the power of the mind...it's all in what you believe in.  I have seen people move mountains with their minds.  I watched an asian man have have some surgical work done on himeself...sans anesthesia...it's all in the mind sweetie. ]

I'm not apologizing for my response....it is what it is.  You've hit quite a nerve with me..... 

I believe in depression and I believe in mental disorders, chemical imbalances, post-traumatic disorders, and all the like.

But I still don't believe in medication for them, but that's for me personally.  I believe someone like my dad should be on drug.  I believe someone like my mom should be on drugs.  I believe someone like my sister should be on legal drugs, not street drugs.

Like tatjanaturtle, I believe in my faith.  Not necessarily a faith in God or gods and goddesses, but rather the faith in myself to overcome these things.  I spent a year boarded up in my bedroom, only getting out of bed to go potty, hurt myself, take some random pill to see what it would do, and to eat when I had the appetite.  I went into the psych ward twice during that year and left refusing to be medicated and to do their little bloodwork tests so they could medicate me forcefully.

It was my determination and faith in myself to finally get out of bed, open a window, and take a shower that got me out of that state of mind.  Every so often it revisits but I now have my tricks to help me get through it.

I'd rather do it on my own than with medication. 

Now I'm not saying everyone should follow suit.  You do what works for you.

Original Post by tatjanaturtle:

  Americans today want a fix NOW....feeling sad?  No problem...take a pill.  Can't get a hard on?  No problem...take a pill.  Headache?  No worries....there's a pill for that too.

This is something I think about and worry about quite often. Our entire culture is obsessed with instant gratification. Whether it's in regards to medicating ourselves, feeding ourselves, sex, shopping, money and everything in between.... it's scary to me.

In regards to REAL depression (not this "feeling sad take a pill" nonsense) then it IS stupid to do nothing about it. Obviously someone like CD would think that "he/she is STRONG enough and has enough FAITH and WILLPOWER to overcome depression" because he or she has never had it, or even witnessed it very personally.

I bet people like this don't think the same thing about cancer.

But, like cancer, depression is not something that goes away on it's own. It's not something that willpower and faith CAN fight. Why don't you tell a cancer patient, or an anorexic, or a schizophrenic to have faith and get through it? It makes just about as much sense as to tell a chronically depressed person that.

I think this is an example of irresponsible journalism. These drugs go through insane amounts of tests to get FDA approved (one of the excuses they use to make them so expensive) Then they print these articles and random internet users have a go at them and it keeps people from getting the help they need.

I am also a random internet person but that's my 2 cents. 

Original Post by feanor:

In regards to REAL depression (not this "feeling sad take a pill" nonsense) then it IS stupid to do nothing about it. Obviously someone like CD would think that "he/she is STRONG enough and has enough FAITH and WILLPOWER to overcome depression" because he or she has never had it, or even witnessed it very personally.

I bet people like this don't think the same thing about cancer.

But, like cancer, depression is not something that goes away on it's own. It's not something that willpower and faith CAN fight. Why don't you tell a cancer patient, or an anorexic, or a schizophrenic to have faith and get through it? It makes just about as much sense as to tell a chronically depressed person that.

 I knew a girl who tried to treat her cancer with faith

Original Post by carleyrapp:

Tatjana: Anti-psychotics are not SSRI's nor are they used to treat depression. They help manage symptoms of schizoaffective & Bipolar disorders. You mentioned you were prescribed them by mistake, but I clarified since the article is about SSRI's.

I assume everyone else is refering to depression & SSRI's since that's what the article is about. Unfortunately for some of us, psychiatric disorders are not managable with just positive thinking & emotions. People like me require medication to function & prevent the brain damaged caused by our illness.

I think it's probable that SSRI's are not more effective than placebo in the general population, however I also think it's probable that a percentage of the population have a unipolar disorder that requires medication.

There is a difference between "bad feelings" or situational depression & the chronic depression & suicide ideation due to a psychiatric illness.

 

 

 I was not having delusions of psychosis.  It was an error on the psychiatrist's part.  I was simply stating that yes, I have been on a flood of medications.  Mostly anti-depressants.

Yes, there is a difference between sadness and chronic/clinical depression.  I have seen and been through both.  I believe the only way to get out of it, from personal experience is to have faith in yourself and the world you create. 

...but like chairmeow...I'm just a random internet person too.  However, I have helped others who were in a chronic/clinical depression as well.  I've been on both sides.