20/20-- April 10
Ok yes, sensationalism journalism at its.. best? But it has had me in tears all night. Talking about gun control in terms of the real world: if you are armed, how capable are you of defending yourself? children accidentally shooting friends. a small little black boy with... such high aspirations and I believe the silver tongue to get him there. I mean I know these shows are designed to make you cry or angry or tug at your heart stings... but this really got to me.
With the shootings lately, its obvious how despondent many of us are.
Did you see the show? Did you think it was blatant propaganda (I agree with it and I thought it was)? How do you feel about gun control-- beginning with licensing, through training, and then restriction.... And last, if you watched, did you cry?
Original Post by lysistrata:
I think you are missing the whole "liberty" thing about a person deciding for him/herself how to protect themselves.
I still dont understand....protect themselves from...what? Isnt it the polices job to protect us from criminals? And the armies job to protect us from bigger threats? Isnt that why we made those things? So each of us wouldnt need to carry around guns and instead could put that job on those who are well trained and who have the right tools to do it?
Animals are the only thing i can think of that we need a gun to protect against.... and only in a few parts of the country.
I see "x crazy person shot up x number of people" a lot more than "brave citizen saves day by stopping criminals with his gun".....
Original Post by lysistrata:
See, the difference between you and me is, you are assuming you will be the victim. I am not.
I won't argue with you on that... I will gladly be the victim in a situation like that if there is no real consequence to me. (Losing my wallet really isn't that important to me)
Original Post by loriklorik:
Original Post by lysistrata:
I think you are missing the whole "liberty" thing about a person deciding for him/herself how to protect themselves.
I still dont understand....protect themselves from...what? Isnt it the polices job to protect us from criminals? And the armies job to protect us from bigger threats? Isnt that why we made those things? So each of us wouldnt need to carry around guns and instead could put that job on those who are well trained and who have the right tools to do it?
Animals are the only thing i can think of that we need a gun to protect against.... and only in a few parts of the country.
I see "x crazy person shot up x number of people" a lot more than "brave citizen saves day by stopping criminals with his gun".....
No. Unfortunately, the police have still not figured out how to be everywhere, all at the same time.
I suspect you just aren't looking.
Edit: It is also evident you have never heard of Tony Martin.
Original Post by burninlove:
Original Post by lysistrata:
See, the difference between you and me is, you are assuming you will be the victim. I am not.
I won't argue with you on that... I will gladly be the victim in a situation like that if there is no real consequence to me. (Losing my wallet really isn't that important to me)
I really don't care so much about my wallet either, but I care very much about my personal safety. If somebody robs me, what assurance do I have that they won't kill me anyway, or beat me senseless, or rape me? The problem is not knowing the consequences of acquiescence.
i pretty much second everything lysistrata has said here.
and third.
haha
Original Post by lysistrata:
I really don't care so much about my wallet either, but I care very much about my personal safety. If somebody robs me, what assurance do I have that they won't kill me anyway, or beat me senseless, or rape me? The problem is not knowing the consequences of acquiescence.
But you don't really know the consequences of taking action, either...
Original Post by burninlove:
Original Post by lysistrata:
I really don't care so much about my wallet either, but I care very much about my personal safety. If somebody robs me, what assurance do I have that they won't kill me anyway, or beat me senseless, or rape me? The problem is not knowing the consequences of acquiescence.
But you don't really know the consequences of taking action, either...
Maybe not, but I have a lot more control over the outcome.
Original Post by lysistrata:
Original Post by burninlove:
Original Post by lysistrata:
I really don't care so much about my wallet either, but I care very much about my personal safety. If somebody robs me, what assurance do I have that they won't kill me anyway, or beat me senseless, or rape me? The problem is not knowing the consequences of acquiescence.
But you don't really know the consequences of taking action, either...
Maybe not, but I have a lot more control over the outcome.
Heh really?
1) Random criminals wouldnt have guns in the first place....and neither would you....so the sittuation wouldnt be a life or death shootout....
2) if you pull out a gun also, suddenly the sittuation is life or death.....what makes you think you are going to win?
Its not just the "good guys" who get the guns. Having guns legal and so easily gotten makes it soooo much easier for pretty criminals to get them too....
If it were me, i would rather have crimes where both parties are unarmed than have crimes where both parties have guns....
Original Post by loriklorik:
Original Post by lysistrata:
Original Post by burninlove:
Original Post by lysistrata:
I really don't care so much about my wallet either, but I care very much about my personal safety. If somebody robs me, what assurance do I have that they won't kill me anyway, or beat me senseless, or rape me? The problem is not knowing the consequences of acquiescence.
But you don't really know the consequences of taking action, either...
Maybe not, but I have a lot more control over the outcome.
Heh really?
1) Random criminals wouldnt have guns in the first place....and neither would you....so the sittuation wouldnt be a life or death shootout....
2) if you pull out a gun also, suddenly the sittuation is life or death.....what makes you think you are going to win?
Its not just the "good guys" who get the guns. Having guns legal and so easily gotten makes it soooo much easier for pretty criminals to get them too....
If it were me, i would rather have crimes where both parties are unarmed than have crimes where both parties have guns....
Unfortunately, experience contradicts this point. It's pretty well established that banning guns just keeps law-abiding people from protecting themselves and does nothing to prevent a thriving black market. Japan is a good example. And Australia, where armed robbery increased by 45% after handguns were banned.
Your example sounds like some old west showdown. If a guy is already pointing a gun at me, I am not going to go to the trouble of taking my gun out of my purse/pocket and displaying it to him before I plug him. Not to say that I wouldn't love a nice Dirty Harry S&W .44 Mag ... that's a seriously intimidating weapon. "Do you feel lucky, punk??"
We had a local news story here a few months ago about some people that were robbing elementry school kids (at gunpoint) for their lunch money while they were waiting for the bus. One of the kids got pistol whipped, and the other lost $2-5 in lunch money or something. After that story, all of the local internet forums were filled with people suggesting that "if only the neighbors had a gun", "the bus drivers had guns", etc. One person actually suggested that the elemetry kids should be allowed to carry guns ("only after getting properly trained, of course")
So in this perfect world where everyone had guns, the robbery for $2 in lunch money would turn into a free-for-all shootout between the criminals, bus drivers, neighbors, and the elementry school students...
Original Post by burninlove:
We had a local news story here a few months ago about some people that were robbing elementry school kids (at gunpoint) for their lunch money while they were waiting for the bus. One of the kids got pistol whipped, and the other lost $2-5 in lunch money or something. After that story, all of the local internet forums were filled with people suggesting that "if only the neighbors had a gun", "the bus drivers had guns", etc. One person actually suggested that the elemetry kids should be allowed to carry guns ("only after getting properly trained, of course")
So in this perfect world where everyone had guns, the robbery for $2 in lunch money would turn into a free-for-all shootout between the criminals, bus drivers, neighbors, and the elementry school students...
Oh, I don't know ... if I were a robber, and I knew my potential victims were likely to be armed, I'd be more inclined to consider a different career, like dealing drugs.
Original Post by lysistrata:
Original Post by burninlove:
We had a local news story here a few months ago about some people that were robbing elementry school kids (at gunpoint) for their lunch money while they were waiting for the bus. One of the kids got pistol whipped, and the other lost $2-5 in lunch money or something. After that story, all of the local internet forums were filled with people suggesting that "if only the neighbors had a gun", "the bus drivers had guns", etc. One person actually suggested that the elemetry kids should be allowed to carry guns ("only after getting properly trained, of course")
So in this perfect world where everyone had guns, the robbery for $2 in lunch money would turn into a free-for-all shootout between the criminals, bus drivers, neighbors, and the elementry school students...
Oh, I don't know ... if I were a robber, and I knew my potential victims were likely to be armed, I'd be more inclined to consider a different career, like dealing drugs.
Since the guy was robbing elementry school students, I'm guessing that rational thought was not one of his strong points.
Original Post by burninlove:
Original Post by lysistrata:
Original Post by burninlove:
We had a local news story here a few months ago about some people that were robbing elementry school kids (at gunpoint) for their lunch money while they were waiting for the bus. One of the kids got pistol whipped, and the other lost $2-5 in lunch money or something. After that story, all of the local internet forums were filled with people suggesting that "if only the neighbors had a gun", "the bus drivers had guns", etc. One person actually suggested that the elemetry kids should be allowed to carry guns ("only after getting properly trained, of course")
So in this perfect world where everyone had guns, the robbery for $2 in lunch money would turn into a free-for-all shootout between the criminals, bus drivers, neighbors, and the elementry school students...
Oh, I don't know ... if I were a robber, and I knew my potential victims were likely to be armed, I'd be more inclined to consider a different career, like dealing drugs.
Since the guy was robbing elementry school students, I'm guessing that rational thought was not one of his strong points.
Really? Hitting a Federal Gun Free Zone seems like pretty sharp thinking to me.
Original Post by lysistrata:
Really? Hitting a Federal Gun Free Zone seems like pretty sharp thinking to me.
Funny you should mention that, the top story on the news is how Indiana gun shops can't keep guns in stock because people are buying so many guns since Obama was elected.
However, I haven't noticed any corresponding decrease in the number of crimes recently. (To be fair, I am basing this completely on my watching the evening news every night...)
BTW: To answer the OP, I am fine with non-criminals owning as many guns as they want as long as they are intelligent and responsible. However, since that is a completely unrealistic & impossible thing to enforce, I don't really have an answer. And no, I didn't cry when I saw it, but I enjoyed it, and thought it showed a new angle to the gun debate.
That's the fear of the Black Gun ban. People are buying Black Guns while they can.
Also, ammunition prices went up about 15% last year. Too bad my 401k didn't perform nearly as well. Want a good investment - buy copper (used in casings; military contractors can't buy enough).
This thread reminds me of another one from way back when that I really enjoyed. People have such interesting thoughts and emotions about guns.
Please excuse me for dominating the thread. I'll shut up now.
Original Post by jesselou:
i pretty much second everything lysistrata has said here.
and third.
haha
I'll fourth it! :D
And lysis, it's good to see you around again!
backatcha, peaches!
I saw some of the show and turned the channel. Talking about banning guns has improved the sale of guns. I'm not giving up my guns, and depending on where you live alot of other people won't be either. Remember the old saying ban guns and the only ones with a gun are the criminals. It won't stop them.
Also, I don't carry my guns around, I guess I could go get a license and do it but don't want to do that since I work for a school system I would have to take in and out of my purse. My sister in law does carries a gun and has for as long as I can remember. Her husband also sells guns. The raised 3 kids, and 5 grandkids without incident. It's called responsiblity. Our boys were also raised around guns. It is going to depend on where you live and how you were raised. People in our area hunt. I still have my grandma's pearl handled gun she carried around the farm.
You have to pick your battles, over a wallet - just hand it over. Any robbery where they want money just give it to them. But if you break into my house while I'm house you can bet you sweet a^% I'm going to shoot them.
It's my right as an American citizen to bear arms. I have lived in Europe and Greece where the Government runs everything and I'm not giving up my rights. I serviced this country along with my Dad , husband , sister, and son and not to forget my grandfathers to have this right.
