Attacks! (Not involving snacks).

Ok,

So I'm not singleing anyone out, but I just wanted to say something:

If people don't like what someone has posted, do you really have to start an arguement?  I have not been on the site for long, but too many times I have seen people be really rude to others (saying they don't belong in the group, asking people to leave...). I can understand when someone starts an attack and you want to defend yourself, but too many times people get really aggressive on here.  It can deter people from wanting to post their ideas to avoid backlash.

Can't we all just get along...we're all here for the same reason.

unfortunately, whatever forum you are on, that happens...and what i see on this site compared to others is NOTHING.

I think it's also hard to read HOW people are saying things when it's simply a post online.  Also, some people read around and realize this site is meant to get you healthy and then ask how they can lose another 10 pounds and be underweight.  Those are where I have seen most of the arguments. 

Just ignore it, that's what I do.

Hey mperic81, I agree with the essence of your post and I truly find that sometimes it gets out of control in the forums but considering the goals of this website, I really think some people should not be posting since it seems like they're promoting their own agenda and don't mean well... the goal here is to share information not to go and spread misinformation and influence or scare people...

I agree. 

I've read some downright mean things from people, sometimes when people were just innocently commenting on a food or snack they like.

if people are posting "information" and advice that has no basis in fact, that needs to be challenged.

I agree that people should be able to state their opinions, that's fine.  The problem starts when people start bringing in information and state them as facts with nothing to back them up.  As we are all here for the same reason we trust in the facts that have enabled us to lose weight, gain weight, whatever it is we're here for.  When someone comes in and contradicts the facts and tools that we use in here everyday, it does cause a little.....static if you will.  Most of us have been through the trials of weight lose, most of us have spent alot of money through the years trying to lose weight.  Personally the only thing that has worked for me is this website and all of the awesome people who are on here with me.  I get upset and angry when someone comes in and says "well my way works better", fine maybe it did for you but I trust in the rules and the information on here.  So I stand by it, if someone wants to throw a whole new way to lose weight at me, cool, I'll listen but I may also disagree.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

if people are posting "information" and advice that has no basis in fact, that needs to be challenged.

 I whole-heartily agree. 

Original Post by mommakitty:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

if people are posting "information" and advice that has no basis in fact, that needs to be challenged.

 I whole-heartily agree. 

 I also agree 100%.

Where we get into unpleasantness is when people confuse snarkiness and mockery with challenging questionable information.

You can definitely challenge information that you feel is wrong or questionable without being rude.  Happens here all the time.  It's a minority of instances where things turn ugly.

But I am aware of a number of people who won't post in our forums because they've felt attacked by our membership.  I think it's great that we have a lot of people here who are dedicated and committed to ongoing education and to making behavioral changes that will lead to a lifetime of good health.  That's awesome.

It's not awesome to take out frustrations on people who are coming here for their own health reasons, who have a medical status that is unknown to you, who are also perhaps in the midst of the learning process, who might even be more ill-informed than you were when you first started learning how to manage your weight, who might require slightly different interventions than you did, and who might respond well to a simple question or comment, but are not likely to respond well to snark.

To create a culture where people freely engage in discussion and conversation requires a certain tolerance for differing opinions.  And with regards to topics like nutrition, where milk is good this month and bad next month, we also need to have a significant amount of patience for and dedication toward discovering the truth together.

Give yourself a pat on the back for being here, for caring enough about your health to make this effort, and for helping other people while you're at it. That is what this site is really about.

i've never been 'attacked' here, i've seen it a couple times tho. but i am more on another forum of late, there's nothing but support from all the members and they are more goal oriented within my goals. well everything is peaches except with one mod once in awhile but he loves that kind of attention.

People are completly entitled to their opinoins...Trust me, I'm FULL of them lol, I just think some people are really rude.

I just read a discussion where someone really ripped on another...complete enemies...it's crazy!

Peace out

MJ

Wow.  I haven't seen such a thing.  Been on here about a month and have been raving about how positive everyone is.  Kind of makes me a little sad.

I've seen plenty of rudeness too, but the only rudeness I see from regular posters is in response to rudeness from someone who won't accept a response different from the one he or she was expecting.

I also have a problem with the people who post unresearched or misinformed claims, and especially when the claims are posted as fact. Rational being that I am, and even despite knowing that the poster of a certain post was in the habit of posting unproven information, I found myself believing for a few minutes today that I would be harming myself if I didn't toss all my supplements in the nearest dumpster...

The "block user" feature is the one that I highly encourage for those who cannot stand a particular member.  Some people have good intentions but a certain lack of tact/knowledge that gets them challenged.  The trick for those challenging is to challenge the facts given rather than the particular users.  We all know how to stomp off in a huff and pout.

Of course, there is also the potential that some users are trolls and delight in whatever they manage to stir up.  Sometimes it's hard to tell which are which.

I don't know.  It annoys me, too.  I try to stay above board in dealing with people who tend to be a little obnoxious.  Here's an example:  I give an answer.  Obnoxious person disagrees, and rather than adding anything constructive, merely quotes what I have said and adds something unhelpful to the effect of, "No they don't."  My response, verbatum, "I've had success with this strategy, but if you have any better ideas, I'm sure the OP would be grateful."  After that, you just leave it alone and go your merry way.

Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

Original Post by mommakitty:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

if people are posting "information" and advice that has no basis in fact, that needs to be challenged.

 I whole-heartily agree. 

 I also agree 100%.

Where we get into unpleasantness is when people confuse snarkiness and mockery with challenging questionable information.

You can definitely challenge information that you feel is wrong or questionable without being rude.  Happens here all the time.  It's a minority of instances where things turn ugly.

But I am aware of a number of people who won't post in our forums because they've felt attacked by our membership.  I think it's great that we have a lot of people here who are dedicated and committed to ongoing education and to making behavioral changes that will lead to a lifetime of good health.  That's awesome.

It's not awesome to take out frustrations on people who are coming here for their own health reasons, who have a medical status that is unknown to you, who are also perhaps in the midst of the learning process, who might even be more ill-informed than you were when you first started learning how to manage your weight, who might require slightly different interventions than you did, and who might respond well to a simple question or comment, but are not likely to respond well to snark.

To create a culture where people freely engage in discussion and conversation requires a certain tolerance for differing opinions.  And with regards to topics like nutrition, where milk is good this month and bad next month, we also need to have a significant amount of patience for and dedication toward discovering the truth together.

Give yourself a pat on the back for being here, for caring enough about your health to make this effort, and for helping other people while you're at it. That is what this site is really about.

 

 

 Ditto ... to everything said!  My thoughts exactly!

Original Post by poofyball:

I also have a problem with the people who post unresearched or misinformed claims, and especially when the claims are posted as fact.

 I think it is also important to remember that many of us come from different educational backgrounds.  Some of us are still in junior high or high school ... some in college .... some in grad school ... and some who may have dropped out.  I have a graduate degree ... now research ... no matter how credible can always be skewed.  Obviously, the preference is for credible, scientific research ... but many do not have access to scientific journals.  And, many may have been taught their research skills in junior high which requires no further digging than the internet ... and wikipedia.  I don't think that people are claiming things as fact--all the while knowing that their claims are fraudulent.  I think that what they state may appear very factual to them ... and thus the reason it is stated as such. 

Just a thought ... I know it can be frustrating ... but it is just good to remember that everyone has a different set of skills ... no matter what those are ... it is also important to remember that research can be manipulated and skewed to  say anything ... even if it is research from a credible, scholarly journal.  You likely know that there are many factors that go into how to conduct a research study, and many factors that are not always adhered to by the research team.  Remembering that has helped me to be less frustrated by those types of posts. 

We all think our opinion is "the one", especially if it is working for US.  The truth is ... I think we are all just a little guilty of doing this sometimes.  I don't know about you ... but I don't always quote the credible, scholarly medical journals when I am making statements, either.  But, I still feel as though I am talking with some knowledge or I wouldn't be making the statement, you know?  I am sure that is the case for everyone making any kind of assertion ... unless of course they are medical doctors or published medical researchers.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

if people are posting "information" and advice that has no basis in fact, that needs to be challenged.

That one is really tricky.  "facts" are just verifiable observations, the explanation for these "facts" changes often.  Sometimes our scientists are citing the same studies based on the same "facts" and come out with completely opposite explanations!

So challenging is good BUT it should go BOTH ways.

Don't you think?

As a slave to the philosophy of science, I understand what you both (above two posters) are saying, but I don't feel that excuses the occurrence. It is the manner in which information is posted that is most deterring/misleading, not the information itself. As a community, we are of course more than welcome to accept whichever theories we choose, but to have something posted as absolute, closed-minded fact rather than opinion causes misconceptions and arguments.

Original Post by valtorpublic:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

if people are posting "information" and advice that has no basis in fact, that needs to be challenged.

That one is really tricky.  "facts" are just verifiable observations, the explanation for these "facts" changes often.  Sometimes our scientists are citing the same studies based on the same "facts" and come out with completely opposite explanations!

So challenging is good BUT it should go BOTH ways.

Don't you think?

valtorpublic, if you knew me at all, you'd know that i'm very careful about what i call a "fact," i believe that knowledge is subjective and changeable, i name my opinions for what they are, i know how to read a study, and whenever possible i go to the primary source.

valtorpublic, if you knew me at all, you'd know that i'm very careful about what i call a "fact," i believe that knowledge is subjective and changeable, i name my opinions for what they are, i know how to read a study, and whenever possible i go to the primary source.

That's great, my message was not directed specifically to you.  I just like reminding people that they should check things themselves.

In the rules of this forum, they say that we cannot speak about ways of eating that are "unhealthy".  But the problem is, the definition of what is "healthy" is a moving target.

How are we supposed to navigate in these waters?  It's not easy.