Baby-faced boy Alfie Patten is father at 13

Here's the article.

He looks younger than my 11 yr old... creepy.

1. I feel sorry for that new baby.
2. That kid doesn't look old enough to make a baby.
3. There are other boys coming forward claiming to have had sex with the girl.
4. Obviously there have been parenting mistakes.
5. I am super-disgusted with the news outlets for treating this as 'news' (making money off of these children's lives).

Original Post by hatamoto:

In today's society it's unusual, but in agrarian societies of the past it wasn't at all strange for people to be married and popping out kids at the age of 16 and under.

Today we tend to put kids into a permanent state of adolescence that lingers for a long time, sometimes lasting well into their 30s. Back in the day, there were more clearly defined boundaries between when someone was meant to be treated as a child and when to be treated as an adult. Because those rites of passage are essentially removed now, there's a general perception that these proto-adults are still children until some arbitarily decided age.

... but back in the day, I guarantee you that 13 year old would have known every aspect of how to operate a farm, including how to populate it with some of his own offspring to help out.

FWIW, it's not unusual for 13 year olds to have sex. It's unusual for progeny to result as most young women recognize they're ill equipped to deal with a child.

Sure, a kid back then would have been more responsible and known how to do that stuff. But this kid? It says his eyes glaze over and he looks away whenever someone tries to talk to him about the money that will be involved. This isn't a competent farm-boy, this is a kid in WAY over his head.

Though last I heard now others are claiming THEY are the father of the child, so there may have to be a paternity test.

Yeah, I knew kids having sex at 13, including a girl who recognized she was..."ill equipped to deal with a child" and dealt with it. But since these two didn't, and they don't indicate that they're going about this practically, what will become of the baby?

Original Post by trustwomen:

Birth control and abortion rights HAVE disproportionately benefited the better-off, because they have more motivation to use them -  greater "opportunity cost".

Start giving everyone else opportunities, too, and teen pregnancies drop. That's why the socialist paradises of Western Europe have such low teen birth rates; affordable education, equality between men and women in the workplace, and everyone can have a shot if they don't screw up their lives on purpose.

Unlike in the US, where you mostly die the way you're born.

I find these statements ironic considering the fact that this is a story from the UK where there is affordable education and healthcare.

However I agree 100% on the fact that birth control and abortion rights have benefited society. Sex education and these open rights are the biggest weapons we have against underage births, imo.

Original Post by hatamoto:

Today we tend to put kids into a permanent state of adolescence that lingers for a long time, sometimes lasting well into their 30s. Back in the day, there were more clearly defined boundaries between when someone was meant to be treated as a child and when to be treated as an adult. Because those rites of passage are essentially removed now, there's a general perception that these proto-adults are still children until some arbitarily decided age.

 This is a very true and insightful statement.

Wow. I saw this on spikedhumor and thought it was a joke.. o.o

Honestly.. sucks to be them.

Original Post by peaches0405:

 It's still pretty unusual in my world.  Most of my friends and even my younger sisters' friends at least waited till around 15-17.  I only knew of one 13 year old who was not a virgin, and hers was taken without her consent!

And furthermore, just because 13 year olds get the urge to have sex, doesn't mean we, as parents, should allow it.  Were they farmers?  Are they living in an agrarian society?  Did this child need to populate his farm to survive?  Nope.  We are past that time now. 

Once again, I blame the parents for not paying attention.  When I was that age, my parents knew where I was at all times.  And I certainly wasn't playing sleep-over with any people of the opposite sex.

It may be unusual to talk about it, but I assure you it's not unusual. Talk to any ob/gyn at the local family planning clinic, you'll see how common it is. Due to the social stigma, most of these situations get buried or, at most, whispered about as dark rumour.

And clearly these kids were in a modern urban environment... that's not the point. The point is that physiologically there's nothing 'unnatural' about it. Any prohibitions we have about sex and pregnancy at that age are purely societal in nature. We as a society have decided that 13-15 is 'too young'... but there was a time, a time literally within living memory of some of our parents and grandparents, when that wasn't the case.

Moreover, you can't keep an eye on your kid at all times of the day. The best you can do as a parent is teach them as best you can and hope they listen and follow advice when they're inevitably on their own. The only way you can control that absolutely is to exert absolute control, in which case you don't have a child, you have a slave.

Original Post by coffincritter:

Sure, a kid back then would have been more responsible and known how to do that stuff. But this kid? It says his eyes glaze over and he looks away whenever someone tries to talk to him about the money that will be involved. This isn't a competent farm-boy, this is a kid in WAY over his head.

Absolutely true. These kids are, as I mentioned, most likely not at all equipped to deal with the realities of raising a child. At one point, and a point not long ago, they would have. Physically there's no real change (aside from the quantity of nutrition available between then and now)... the only thing different is our perception of the situation, and the way we treat children today as though they're incapable of coping with reality.

Though last I heard now others are claiming THEY are the father of the child, so there may have to be a paternity test.

Drama... drama... drama...

Yeah, I knew kids having sex at 13, including a girl who recognized she was..."ill equipped to deal with a child" and dealt with it. But since these two didn't, and they don't indicate that they're going about this practically, what will become of the baby?

Well, there's plenty of options. They could raise the child (presumably under the careful auspices of parents... again, in another time and age there'd be extended family and friends to help with that, the old it takes a village thing), hand authority over to another family member temporarily or permanently, adoption or abortion. I'd suspect that ultimately it'll end up a defacto fosterage/adoption scenario if she keeps it to term.

All this being said, I think most of us can agree that this isn't a desirable situation. There's too many people being born onto the planet as it is, let alone for young teens to be popping them out... in the society we live in, we need a lot of education to become viable in the work market, and optimally a child shouldn't have to live in a home where food or shelter is a risky proposition. So in order to have the best chance, that means holding off on pregnancy until well educated and economically viable... which means sex education. Real sex education. Not balding gym teachers who've had 2 girlfriends in their life stammering and blushing and being completely useless, nor fundimentalist "just say no" reality deniers who want to return to some golden age of abstinence that has never existed.

Which means, most likely, parents. It's at least a bit easier these days to have "the talk" for many, there's a lot more material out there to explain the nuts and bolts of it, but most are so embarassed to talk about sex. Harkening back to that agrarian lifestyle, no child on the farm was unfamiliar with sex by the time they were old enough to engage in it; they would have seen pretty much every farm animal they had copulate and produce calfs/foals/litters/whatever... the cause and effect is very there and very evident.

hata, it's not that the kid is 13 (or rather, was 12 when he presumably fathered the baby), it's that he's a prepubescent 13.

There are some 13-year-olds who look grown - I know, I was one of them and (gasp!) I even had sex at that age (yeah, yeah, lurkers, say what you like, I was going into 11th grade, had fully blossomed and looked about 18). But that boy looks about 8 or 9, is 4 feet tall, and doesn't possibly look like any kind of sexual being. The girl, on the other hand, looks more grown. Which is why I think she has a serious problem, for having slept with a child. (Again, not based on age, but on physical development).

Ah... okay, I can see that. Mind you, I was pretty baby faced when I first starting having sex (I was 12... and lurkers can play hide-and-go-f**k-themselves if they don't like it ;) but I was completely operational.

Kinda wish I could dial the clock back a bit actually. I could do without ripping my face up shaving this rough as sandpaper scrub I get.

wow hatamoto, you habve much to say, but on the topic of development and sex we dont really know what happened with this kid, did chantelle seduce him, he really snt ready for it, he says he will look after the baby but I dont think he realises that looking after it will involve more than just holding it and giving it its bottle, to look after something means to me to be responsible for its well being what is he going to do, get a job start working to care for his "family" he mosyt likely doesnt want to be with chantelle for the rest of his life,

 

I dont really like the idea of children having sex so does that mean I have to go **** myself, but I didnt develope early so I dont know what it is like, probally annoyign since few others would be at the same stage if you develope early,

When I was 12/13 I was probably still secretly playing with barbie dolls... :/ I had crushes on boys and things, but I was in no way interested in sex. I was also always interested in older boys...always. Boys my age were so (and some still are...) immature.

Whoops. Mis-posted.

Original Post by hatamoto:

Moreover, you can't keep an eye on your kid at all times of the day. The best you can do as a parent is teach them as best you can and hope they listen and follow advice when they're inevitably on their own. The only way you can control that absolutely is to exert absolute control, in which case you don't have a child, you have a slave.

 I'm not saying it doesn't happen.  And we all know that nobody can keep an eye on their kids all of the time.  But, come on, hata!  They friggin let their young teen kid have a sleepover with another teen of the opposite sex.  That's not just a little "oops, I lost track of my kid for a few hours". 

I agree that our culture has infantilized our 'youth' (14-25 year olds) a great deal. I think this is something we can and should correct and it won't require going back to an agrarian society.

I don't think that explains away this case.

The baby has already been born, hata, which would mean that it can no longer be aborted. 

But it is still fairly rare for 12 and 13-year olds to get pregnant and I think even more rare for 12- and 13-year olds to impregnate others.

Rare, but obviously it does happen. As a parent myself, I do consider myself (at least) partially responsible for what my child does until she is legally an adult, which is why I've raised her the way I have.

How many kids have you raised, hata?  Just curious...

 

Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

it is still fairly rare for 12 and 13-year olds to get pregnant and I think even more rare for 12- and 13-year olds to impregnate others.

Rare, but obviously it does happen. As a parent myself, I do consider myself (at least) partially responsible for what my child does until she is legally an adult, which is why I've raised her the way I have.

  I agree. I consider myself as a parent partially responsible for what my child does until she is legally an adult, which is why I raise her the way I do too. 

 I wish more parents were as accountable. Kudos @ Nomo's statement. My feelings are the same in that regard.

Original Post by peaches0405:

Original Post by hatamoto:

Moreover, you can't keep an eye on your kid at all times of the day. The best you can do as a parent is teach them as best you can and hope they listen and follow advice when they're inevitably on their own. The only way you can control that absolutely is to exert absolute control, in which case you don't have a child, you have a slave.

 I'm not saying it doesn't happen.  And we all know that nobody can keep an eye on their kids all of the time.  But, come on, hata!  They friggin let their young teen kid have a sleepover with another teen of the opposite sex.  That's not just a little "oops, I lost track of my kid for a few hours". 

 Exactly. It's a much bigger "OOOPS. My child was having a sleepover with someone of the opposite sex. They both have/had raging teenage hormones and our approval for a sleepover." Duhh. As the teenagers would put it. . . Just duhh.

It wasn't appropriate to allow a sleepover of that nature without adults/parents there to take shifts standing watch,imho.  The parents may've been disillusioned by the appearance of their children. Some parents never acknowledge the fact their teenage children have hormones. They still see baby faces long after the baby stage has come and gone.

Where did it say they were allowed to have sleepovers?  All I read was that he was allowed to sleep over once they learned of her pregnancy.

"It was disclosed that Alfie and Chantelle had routinely been allowed to share a bed.

Two more teenagers have since said that they too had spent the night in Chantelle's room."

"He said: "I slept with Chantelle in her bed about nine months ago and I'm really worried I could be the father."'

Source

 

The funny thing is Alfie could be done for having sex with an underage girl (the police have decided not to).

Aha!  Thanks cptbunny!