beginning to think there's more smokers than non-smokers

Anyone else feel this way? I even over heard someone say they were surprised how many there are in Toronto (they aren't from here). It seems like half the people I see as I wait for the bus to work are smoking. At the bar this Saturday for a bday party, nearly the whole group of people were smoking (we were on the patio). I still smell it. I would say at least half my co-workers smoke (my boss doesn't even say have a 'break', it's 'smoke break'). Heck most of my friends the last couple years are smokers. What gives? Are more people getting hooked on them?

Oh yeah I remember walking down one of the main streets in the spring, and the sidewalk that was covered by snowbanks was now covered by old cigarette butts...so gross.

I don't mean to offend any smokers (do you guys even get offended by us non-smokers complaining?!?)...but why are there so many of you -.-

i think reading this just killed off half my brain cells.

edit: not the entire topic.  the paragraph written with essentially no punctuation or insight whatsoever.  that one.

Original Post by zippo2u:

 what dont you agree with? that this a free country? it was last time i looked. that you have the right to make your own choices in life? lets see........ yep right there in the constitution. that you have the right to make other peoples choices for them?........nope can't seem to find that one. that you can tell others how to run their business and their lives?........nope dont see that one either. that men and women are dying for our freedom?........yep right there on page one of the news paper. that we are giving away the freedom and the rights these people have died for?..... yep way back in the paper (funny how that stuff gets put on the last page isn't it?) so what dont you agree with?

i don't agree that anti-smoking laws are communist (or fascist, for that matter).  i don't agree that smokers have a "right" to engage in a behaviour that threatens the health of others.

PS: i also don't agree that anyone is currently fighting or dying for my freedom.

pg, as per the usual, i agree.

zippo...please tell me how non-smokers are endangering the health of others?  please tell me how by us not smoking, we're placing tons of negative chemicals into your system, potentially causing massive health complications later on in life? 

please strive to see the difference between non-smokers wanting to be away from smoke, and smokers wanting to be free to smoke wherever.  it's not an issue of freedom.

2 well know facts and 1 that I just heard the other day:

1. Drinking (alcohol) consumption rises with unemployment rates
2. People who smoke rises with unemployment rates
3. Candy consumption rises with unemployment rates (this is the 1 I jsut heard)

You would think it would be opposite.  You would think that people couldn't afford it.  I guess it's the stress.

I started smoking because it seemed like an independent, adult-like decision to smoke and at the time all of my friends who were also my co-workers, smoked...  The second worst decision of my life.  Calorie counting is the first.

Want to quit, but obviously not bad enough, because I still undoutably smoke

Sorry, don't mind this post. I needed to reply because I keep getting emails that people are posting. So just disregard this post!

Original Post by osainto:

I started smoking because it seemed like an independent, adult-like decision to smoke and at the time all of my friends who were also my co-workers, smoked...  The second worst decision of my life.  Calorie counting is the first.

Want to quit, but obviously not bad enough, because I still undoutably smoke

osainto, a friend of mine recently quit using alan carr's method.  she's quit before, but says this time is totally different, and she's 100% confident that she'll never smoke again.  apparently he breaks down all the myths about why people smoke and why it's so hard to quit, and when you "get it" you have no reason to smoke.

only problem is, it's also broken down her rationalizations for drinking, and now she feels like she has to give up alcohol, too .

Original Post by pgeorgian:

only problem is, it's also broken down her rationalizations for drinking, and now she feels like she has to give up alcohol, too .

 oh, see, that's just unfortunate.

Will not be giving up alcohol...no matter what this Carr character says. 

i know!!  when she was telling me about it...well let's just say my own rationalizations got very nervous.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by zippo2u:

 what dont you agree with? that this a free country? it was last time i looked. that you have the right to make your own choices in life? lets see........ yep right there in the constitution. that you have the right to make other peoples choices for them?........nope can't seem to find that one. that you can tell others how to run their business and their lives?........nope dont see that one either. that men and women are dying for our freedom?........yep right there on page one of the news paper. that we are giving away the freedom and the rights these people have died for?..... yep way back in the paper (funny how that stuff gets put on the last page isn't it?) so what dont you agree with?

i don't agree that anti-smoking laws are communist (or fascist, for that matter).  i don't agree that smokers have a "right" to engage in a behaviour that threatens the health of others.

PS: i also don't agree that anyone is currently fighting or dying for my freedom.

Thank you, pg, for bringing up the second hand smoke issue.  I've been made very ill from inhaling other people's smoke.  Sometimes it's hard to escape from it, but I have to try.  As long as a few smokers have this sense that it is their right to blow smoke wherever they want to, I'm in danger. 

Zippo - Right now, our common balcony on this floor has been taken over by 3 smokers.  Now I can't go out on the balcony because one of them is always there, puffing away.  Who's freedom is being curtailed here?

Original Post by clairelaine:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by zippo2u:

 what dont you agree with? that this a free country? it was last time i looked. that you have the right to make your own choices in life? lets see........ yep right there in the constitution. that you have the right to make other peoples choices for them?........nope can't seem to find that one. that you can tell others how to run their business and their lives?........nope dont see that one either. that men and women are dying for our freedom?........yep right there on page one of the news paper. that we are giving away the freedom and the rights these people have died for?..... yep way back in the paper (funny how that stuff gets put on the last page isn't it?) so what dont you agree with?

i don't agree that anti-smoking laws are communist (or fascist, for that matter).  i don't agree that smokers have a "right" to engage in a behaviour that threatens the health of others.

PS: i also don't agree that anyone is currently fighting or dying for my freedom.

Thank you, pg, for bringing up the second hand smoke issue.  I've been made very ill from inhaling other people's smoke.  Sometimes it's hard to escape from it, but I have to try.  As long as a few smokers have this sense that it is their right to blow smoke wherever they want to, I'm in danger. 

Zippo - Right now, our common balcony on this floor has been taken over by 3 smokers.  Now I can't go out on the balcony because one of them is always there, puffing away.  Who's freedom is being curtailed here?

 clearly the smokers' freedom is being curtailed, since they're stuck outside. 

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by zippo2u:

 what dont you agree with? that this a free country? it was last time i looked. that you have the right to make your own choices in life? lets see........ yep right there in the constitution. that you have the right to make other peoples choices for them?........nope can't seem to find that one. that you can tell others how to run their business and their lives?........nope dont see that one either. that men and women are dying for our freedom?........yep right there on page one of the news paper. that we are giving away the freedom and the rights these people have died for?..... yep way back in the paper (funny how that stuff gets put on the last page isn't it?) so what dont you agree with?

i don't agree that anti-smoking laws are communist (or fascist, for that matter).  i don't agree that smokers have a "right" to engage in a behaviour that threatens the health of others.

PS: i also don't agree that anyone is currently fighting or dying for my freedom.

 I think zippo was talking about the USA. I assume this, because American's are generally known for falling back on the whole 'It's a free country' thing and backing that up with the 'constitution'. Regarding the USA, there are actually thousands of soldiers who are fighting for our freedom, and many of them are giving their lives for it. Sorry, being an army wife, I could not let that one go.

Now, I think I need a cigarette.

I am desperately trying to quit.  I quit, then I have a few, quit and a few more.  I think I have a thread on here or two where I even say "when I used to smoke" 

Well it was true when I said it!  :)

In any case, I am a polite smoker.  I dont smoke in my own house.  I dont smoke near the entrances of buildings.  I dont litter my butts etc.  In fact, I go out of my way to "hide" if I am near a public place.  For example, going across the park away from people so that my smoke does not bother any one.  But even still I have had people follow me and tell me off for smoking.  I never did get that one.  They are not "concerned for my health"  that is a load of crap.  So I am not sure what pleasure they get from it. 

The one comment I will never forget though, at a store the clerk did not know I smoked but said to me "if I were God all smokers would go to hell". 

Wow - that is really harsh!  Most smokers made a really stupid choice when they were too young to know better.  Quitting is so hard it has a huge failure rate.  Trust me on this - will power is not enough.  Now now ex-smokers.  The old line "if I can do it you can too" might be true enough, but it does not make quitting instantly easy.  For some of us it is try try again.

Any way - that was off topic eh?

In my city the city is even trying to outlaw smoking on any public street, square, mall, or walk.  Not long ago there was legislation up (that did not pass) to make it illegal for anyone to smoke in their own vehicle.  All for my own good I suppose.

I dont see a lot of smokers at all here.  But what amazes me is that for all the laws that have made smoking illegal in public places there are few places for smokers to get rid of their butts.  Its a bit like saying littering is illegal so we will get rid of the trash cans to discourage people from having stuff to throw out.  Without a proper binl it all ends up on the ground.  Very short sighted.

I don't smoke more than 1 or 2 a day now and always at home.  But when I smoked a lot I kept a ziplock baggie in my purse for those butts.  How gross is that?

Original Post by starlitocean:

pg, as per the usual, i agree.

zippo...please tell me how non-smokers are endangering the health of others?  please tell me how by us not smoking, we're placing tons of negative chemicals into your system, potentially causing massive health complications later on in life? 

please strive to see the difference between non-smokers wanting to be away from smoke, and smokers wanting to be free to smoke wherever.  it's not an issue of freedom.

 ok. first question you have the right not to smoke if you choose. second issue just because you choose not to put chemicals in your body does not give you the right to tell others what they can put in theirs. you say you want to be away from smoke, and thats your right. if an owner of a business chooses to let his customers smoke you dont have to go into that business. thats your choice. the owner of that business has every right to run it any way he wants to. this is an issue of freedom and rights. so please strive to see the difference between your choice and mine. going by what your saying we can tell walmart they cant let people in wearing a certin perfume because it makes me sick. i can understand having no smoking in places where you have to go court houses, to pay your taxes, ect. but in a private business the person who pays the bills makes the rules. if you dont like those rules then go to a place thats more suited to your taste. thats your right, and your freedom of choice. where i live there are ten bars nine dont allow smoking. do you go to one of these? no you force the one bar's owner to go non-smoking. taking away his right, and freedom as a property owner. does this bar owner come to your house, and tell you you cant have cats because he's alergic to them? no he simply doesn't go to your house.

Original Post by surfee:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by zippo2u:

 what dont you agree with? that this a free country? it was last time i looked. that you have the right to make your own choices in life? lets see........ yep right there in the constitution. that you have the right to make other peoples choices for them?........nope can't seem to find that one. that you can tell others how to run their business and their lives?........nope dont see that one either. that men and women are dying for our freedom?........yep right there on page one of the news paper. that we are giving away the freedom and the rights these people have died for?..... yep way back in the paper (funny how that stuff gets put on the last page isn't it?) so what dont you agree with?

i don't agree that anti-smoking laws are communist (or fascist, for that matter).  i don't agree that smokers have a "right" to engage in a behaviour that threatens the health of others.

PS: i also don't agree that anyone is currently fighting or dying for my freedom.

 I think zippo was talking about the USA. I assume this, because American's are generally known for falling back on the whole 'It's a free country' thing and backing that up with the 'constitution'. Regarding the USA, there are actually thousands of soldiers who are fighting for our freedom, and many of them are giving their lives for it. Sorry, being an army wife, I could not let that one go.

Now, I think I need a cigarette.

 thank you and your husband for your sacrifice, and my freedom. i hope and pray he makes it home safely. please let him know there are still some people who appreciate, and are greatful to him.

Some very good points zippo2u.  I am one of those people who smokes when they drink...so smoking doesn't really bother me. 

Original Post by surfee:

 I think zippo was talking about the USA. I assume this, because American's are generally known for falling back on the whole 'It's a free country' thing and backing that up with the 'constitution'. Regarding the USA, there are actually thousands of soldiers who are fighting for our freedom, and many of them are giving their lives for it. Sorry, being an army wife, I could not let that one go.

i'm quite certain that zippo was talking about the US.  i'm canadian; we have soldiers fighting and dying in afghanistan.  i understand why they're there; i just don't believe it has anything to do with my freedom, or yours, for that matter. 

and even if you believe that they are fighting for your freedom, i don't see what that has do do with anyone's right to poison the atmosphere of others.

Original Post by zippo2u:

 ok. first question you have the right not to smoke if you choose. second issue just because you choose not to put chemicals in your body does not give you the right to tell others what they can put in theirs. you say you want to be away from smoke, and thats your right. if an owner of a business chooses to let his customers smoke you dont have to go into that business. thats your choice. the owner of that business has every right to run it any way he wants to. this is an issue of freedom and rights. so please strive to see the difference between your choice and mine. going by what your saying we can tell walmart they cant let people in wearing a certin perfume because it makes me sick. i can understand having no smoking in places where you have to go court houses, to pay your taxes, ect. but in a private business the person who pays the bills makes the rules. if you dont like those rules then go to a place thats more suited to your taste. thats your right, and your freedom of choice. where i live there are ten bars nine dont allow smoking. do you go to one of these? no you force the one bar's owner to go non-smoking. taking away his right, and freedom as a property owner. does this bar owner come to your house, and tell you you cant have cats because he's alergic to them? no he simply doesn't go to your house.

zippo, the rationale for banning smoking in businesses is about protecting employees, not customers.  we all have a right to a degree of safety in the workplace, not just individually, but in terms of larger societal costs.

by all means, poison yourself; just don't poison the rest of us.

Original Post by clairelaine:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by zippo2u:

 what dont you agree with? that this a free country? it was last time i looked. that you have the right to make your own choices in life? lets see........ yep right there in the constitution. that you have the right to make other peoples choices for them?........nope can't seem to find that one. that you can tell others how to run their business and their lives?........nope dont see that one either. that men and women are dying for our freedom?........yep right there on page one of the news paper. that we are giving away the freedom and the rights these people have died for?..... yep way back in the paper (funny how that stuff gets put on the last page isn't it?) so what dont you agree with?

i don't agree that anti-smoking laws are communist (or fascist, for that matter).  i don't agree that smokers have a "right" to engage in a behaviour that threatens the health of others.

PS: i also don't agree that anyone is currently fighting or dying for my freedom.

Thank you, pg, for bringing up the second hand smoke issue.  I've been made very ill from inhaling other people's smoke.  Sometimes it's hard to escape from it, but I have to try.  As long as a few smokers have this sense that it is their right to blow smoke wherever they want to, I'm in danger. 

Zippo - Right now, our common balcony on this floor has been taken over by 3 smokers.  Now I can't go out on the balcony because one of them is always there, puffing away.  Who's freedom is being curtailed here?

 your not in danger of anything, and i really think you need to get over your "better than tho" attiude. as for the balcony was it not the non-smokers who forced us outside? i have a niece who is six and a nephew who is three. they were playing the other day. he had a toy train she had a toy car. all of a sudden she wanted the train. so he started playing with a bunch of blocks. then she wanted the blocks. anybody can see what was happing here. it wasn't that she wanted any of these things. she just didnt want him to have them. this is the mind set of most non-smokers. "you cant smoke in this restaurant because i'm here." "oh your going next door? well you cant smoke there either. because i just decided i like it over there better." "what? your going to the place at the end of the block?" "nope cant go there because i like it so much better then those other two places." "i know they sell the same thing at all three, but i think everywhere you go i'm going to like it better." "as a matter of fact i think i had better follow you around. because even though your old enough to vote, join the armed forces, and give your life for your country. i dont think your quiet old enough or smart enough to decide what you can do with your body or your property." have non-smokers really fallen to the level of a six year old? because they dont want anyone anywhere to smoke. again it goes back to other people trying to force thier ideas of right and wrong on others.