'Belly pits' My work out and diet regimen (please advise)

 Hi, I started working out about 6 months ago, I was approximately 140 pounds at 5'9 and a half inches tall. So I was already fairly thin to begin with. Since I began my workout I lost approximately 7% body fat and gained a few pounds in muscle, that is not very visible, but obviously is there because my weight is now 147 pounds, 2 pounds heavier than I was prior to starting my exercise regimen.

My question is twofold. First of all is it normal to see so much of your rib cage when you drop body fat? I showed my girlfriend and she was afraid I was becoming anorexic. At the same time when she saw the increase in my pectoral muscles and the tightening of my abdominal region she agreed that it might be worth 'seeing a little skeleton'. Is this normal? Also, directly below my rib cage there are belly pits, not inordinately deep, but there nontheless. is this also normal when one begins serious fat reduction?

I apologize for the vagueness of this description, but 'belly pits' is the only term I can come up with as I am unfamiliar with the anatomical name for this region between the abs and oblique ab muscles. Maybe I can refer to it as an incline or a down slope? Anyway any assistance would be appreciated, and to be complete I will give you a sampling of what my diet consists of throughout the weeks and months since I began my regimen.

At first I was a pure vegan surviving on mostly tofu for protein, but I noticed something, I was not increasing muscle definition, or, if I was it would not remain, and I was experiencing major mood swings. the culprit not being that tofu lacks a sufficient amount of protein but that it is full of phytoestrogens which increases serum estrogen levels in men. I noticed that I was getting quite moody as a result of this also. So I did some further research on my diet and realized that the tofu and soy milk I was consuming in large quantities daily was the culprit of my mood swings. See unfermented soy products that contain so many phytoestrogens cause serious hormone imbalance in some men.

Since I discovered this, approximately one month ago, my diet has consisted of the following (and this is just an example week).

Monday, morning I will eat one organic egg with a piece of whole grain toast, a banana and a handful of mixed nuts. No lunch. Dinner, I will eat one cup of rice, half a cup of lentils, steamed mixed vegetables and another piece of whole grain bread with almond butter as well as one 8 oz glass of 2% organic milk.

Tuesday, breakfast I will have essentially the same thing as the previous day but with a bowl of organic kashi 'autumn wheat' cereal added, with raisins added for extra flavour. Lunch I will have one cup of rice with steamed broccoli and a can of tuna. Dinner, I will have approximately two servings of whole wheat, high protein pasta with a baked potato and a veggie burger on the side.

Wednesday, breakfast will consist of one and a half cups of oatmeal with banana slices added. Lunch will consist of two servings of medium size steamed shrimp with steamed vegetables added. Dinner, basically rice with lentils again.

I will often alternate this meal plan every couple days. Some days I will eat two cans of tuna, as opposed to one, and sometimes I will eat lentils twice a day, as opposed to once, both for the same purpose of increasing protein intake. I just want to be clear that I do not add any dressing to any of my food, no condiments other than pure habanero pepper sauce sometimes on my rice. I pretty much limit my fat intake to approximately 15-20 grams at the very most any given day, and I do not eat anything containing artificial sweeteners or a high degree of preservatives.

And for a sample of what my exercise regimen is like.

Monday, I will do three sets of 30 push ups, 4 sets of 20 ab crunches, but upper and lower, and 4 sets of 15 squats, then I will do about 17 minutes of cardio, and I mean real cardio that makes me sweat hard all over. I take a 10 minute break with stretching before entering 20 minutes of pilates which consists of a combination of strength and stretching exercises.

Tuesday, I will do 3 sets of bicep, tricep, forearm, chest and deltoid exercises using a heavy resistance band. This will last about a half hour. Then I will do my 17 minutes of cardio with a 10 minute break before entering a 20 minute power yoga session which is similar to the pilates but different in that it works the lower body more, whereas the pilates work out consists mostly of mat work.

The following day I take a break, then I repeat this sequence the following two days. Sometimes I take two day break because I need more recuperation time, but I try not to. I am opened to as much advise as possible. I am frustrated because, while my body fat is reducing at a steady pace, and my abdominal region is tight, I still cannot see my abdominal muscles, yet I can see my rib cage and this 'belly pit' directly below either of them. I need to know what I can do to reduce this belly pit and/or if it is normal to see so much of my rib cage and yet so little of my ab muscles. well NONE of my ab muscles. Thanks.

To me looking in as an outsider baring in mind i have no idea your of the exact values of what your eating.

However looking at your diet, it seems very very carb heavy i realise it's difficult to get protien in can be difficult on a mostly vegan diet, and things like lentil's are a good place to start however i wouldn't eat lentils with rice lentils have quite enough carbs in them already on thier own, also as a whole you seem short of good fats and just food in general, im a 5ft3 girl trying to cut and i eat more than you do right now.

As a rough guestimate your problem sounds to me is that your body fat is dropping to a level you can't maintain, in other words you simply don't have the muscle mass to carry off such a low body fat without looking kinda sickly, which is why your starting to show ribs ... ribs on a man in my opinion is not a good look.

For now i'd work on building up muscle mass and by that i mean workout hard and EAT ... and i mean really eat eat like it's your only job.

You need to be eating 5-6 meals a day right now you are only eating 2 or 3 .. this is seriously NOT GOOD, why do you skip lunch some days it's simply not healthy and its not going to lead to a good body.

im not going to break down every day but lets take a look at monday....

Breakfast - 1egg, 1 slice - whole grain toast , 1 banana , handful of mixed nuts.

lunch - none

Dinner - one cup of rice, half a cup of lentils, steamed mixed vegetables and another piece of whole grain bread with almond butter as well as one 8 oz glass of 2% organic milk.

Ok breakfast (guesstimate assuming there is about 25g of nuts) - ok roughly you have the following macro's -

• protien -19g (not enough nowhere near enough)
• Fat - 21g (again not too bad)
• Carbs - 45g (not too bad) 
• Total cals - 457cals (not to bad)

Dinner - Again guesstimating values

• Protien - 42g
• Fat 15.7g
• Carbs - 133g
• Total Cals - 846cals

Total for the day.

• protien - 61g (VERY VERY SHORT for gaining any sort of muscle or even maintaining what you have already)
• Fats - 36g not too bad could stand to be higher
• Carbs - 178g (not to bad as a whole)
• Total Cals - 1303 (no where near enough seriously ... no wonder you can see your ribs.)

My opinion, the quality of the food you are eating is great so good job there, however as a rule you need to split your meals up into smaller meals and add a truck load of cals / protien.

Have LUNCH EVERY DAY, HAVE some Snacks (5-6 meals per day) and generally just eat more protein!!!

Right now i think the problem is that your not eating enough and you don't have the muscle to look good at your current body fat, so i'd really recommend doing a short bulk see if you can add some mass to your torso and anywhere else that is flagging.

Thank you for your response leila. I want to emphasize something here.

The carb principle, at least as far as my understanding of it goes, applies mainly to bad carbs, like white bleached carbs and such, and those found in highly processed foods. The carbs I am consuming are generally considered the good kind that are shunted through to the colin for immediate usage. 

Just out of curiosity, why should i raise my fat calorie intake? Are you suggesting I should increase my fat lipids to help develop muscle better? And for the record the fats I consume ARE of the good sort. I do not eat anything that is dense with saturated or trans fat. The eggs and pasta I eat have omega 3 fats in them, so I am getting a decent mix of omega 6 and omega 3.

And another for the record, one can of tuna consists of approximately 35 grams of protein. Some days I eat two cans in addition to a serving of shrimp which itself is about 30 grams of protein. (the text got bigger?)

Now in terms of the building of muscle mass. I want to point out that I was unaware that major muscle mass was necessary for a six pack development. I have seen guys with absolutely no other muscle development BUT a six pack who have horrid diets (their secret? cardio). Additionally I have seen countless females with six pack abs who have almost no other muscle mass on their bodies. My interest is somewhere in the middle. I do not want to become big at all. I would like merely to gain body tone and to fill my belly in with mass and a six pack, but not to look like a muscle man. I don't need to look like a body builder at all.

Lastly I want to place great emphasis on the philosophy I have of long term health. I am against the use of heavy weights because I read several articles that noted that, in the long term, heavy weight lifting causes micro-cellular damage to internal organs, especially the liver and kidneys, and the more evident fact that joint issues are often a serious dilemma for athletes using heavy weights. I therefor use heavy resistance bands. Depending on where I step on the band I can get a maximum resistance of about 30 pound dumbells, which I think is good enough to gain tone and a little mass, and I experience no  serious joint ache afterward. I am 24 years old and  am developing a philosophy of long term health. Or at least trying to. 

Okay I am a little confused about calorie intake. One group of people says increase it, another group says decrease it to gain a six pack. Which one is it? bear in mind my goal is to more or less maintain my current size while adding definition and a six pack to the equation. I am NOT looking to be a body builder at all. 

If you want to have a look at my current physical health you can click my photo and enlarge it. I basically would like to take this a bit further with the abdominal muscles and then gain a tiny bit extra mass to augment my strength, otherwise I am alright with my current size. (the text got bigger again?)

Also, if it turns out I must increase my calorie intake, or at least attempt to do so, what are some possible methods to employ? Bear in mind I do not and will not eat any sort of meat but fish, specifically tuna and shrimp but am opened to other possibilities with sea food. Also bear in mind I eat all organic dairy products and I pretty much stay away from cheese entirely. Protein intake is not calorie induction, I know this, and I want to add that I recently implemented the use of a zinc supplement to help regain my testosterone levels that were damaged from the phytoestrogens in the unfermented soy products I was consuming in large quantities. 

yes i did notice that the carb you are getting are good carb's and your fats are again good fats which is great there is no major issues with the quality of the foods your getting as far as i can see, however i was more concerned by the lack of fat / protien in your diet rather than exess carbs .... while it's true you are getting them both from good sources you really need more of both in my honest opinion though i admit i am just one person with just one opinion.

Tbh i think if you keep your carbs exactly where they are and increase your fat and protien consumtion you'll be in alot better postition.

It's also true that the "elusive 6 pack" is gained though a low body fat, and not from getting really good muscles in your ab's, however it's hard to see and give an opinion on the position your in, however from the discription of the stomach pits and your height/wieght ration im mearly guessing that the problem here is a lack of muscle tone ....

Don't get me wrong, if you continue losing fat eventually you will get a 6 pack, the question is how will the rest of you look?? The only reason i ask this is because 6 months ago i was in a position where i was so desprate to shift the belly fat and find my abbs i lost sight of the rest of my body, and it was only when i stood back and looked objectivly that i realised that i "could" find my abb's if i continued to lose fat, but my arms, shoulders, and back would have looked awful and i would have looked really sickly and not at all have the attractive body i wanted, and in order to "get my 6 pack" i had to first bulk to add wieght/muscle to my thinner area's so that when i finally get around to cutting to find my abbs look good and healthy when i find them.

I understand you don't want to be a bodybuilder, baring in mind im a women who also has no desire to walk around looking like one either haha, however if you can already see your ribs im guessing that you need to gain at least a little muscle on your and back before you can carry off a 6 pack and do it looking good rather than looking like a skeleton with a 6 pack.

Personally i recommend a clean bulk, possibly even carb cycling, i get the impression you'd rather not go full out for leather on a full bulk with massive fat gain's, however if you bulk carefully and are able to stay disapplined it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle while bulking, i've currently got my husband bulking and he's done really well, he's the same hight as you but about 20lb heavier (though he doens't look that heavy), and he's just now starting to find his abb's even while he's technically gaining weight, so it is possible.  

Im more than happy to help you work it all out, but as i say im only guesstimating with no photo's it's really hard to "see" what your problem is.. about the only thing i know for sure is that you need more protein. 

You may find this difficult to believe, and all I can say is give it a try for at least a month, and then tell me you dont' see a difference - but you have to be honest about eating this every day...

Greens - greens will actually give you the protein you need, as protein is made from essential fatty acids, and not by eating meat that contains protien. However, the greens need to be eaten (protien or not) to build muscle. This will help to develop muscle around your rib cage as well, so you won't look so skeletal. PopEye really was onto something when he mentioned that spinach makes you stronger. If you don't believe the protien issue, you can add hemp seeds to your salads, or anymeal, as they are a complete protien, it allows you to remain vegan if you want.

If you consume a large salad everyday (uncooked greens are the best, if you cook them, you may not get the same results), you should start to see results fairly soon - eat as many greens as you can. It is also best to alternate the types of greens you eat, and to get organic greens, if possible. I know sometimes that is not really an option. I would also recommend that you do not use iceberg lettuce, it is the least nutritious out of all of the lettuces - which is normally OK, but if you want to build up those muscles around your ribcage, you need the nutrients - the darker green, the more nutritious it is. Herbs are also very nutritious and will serve the same purpose - such as cilantro, mint, etc.

To be honest, green smoothies are the best way to get in as many greens as you need a day, without having to eat so much. Fill your blender up with greens of your choice, add a little bit of water to get the blender going, then add any fruits that you want to use to sweeten it. I usually use banabas as a base, it makes all the difference in the world for the flavor - then add other fruits, if you want. I usually toss in some strawberries and maybe an orange - or other berries (frozen or fresh). Just be sure to get as many leafy green veggies in there as you can.

leila

Your responses have been awesomely dedicated. If you click on my avatar, it will take you to my photo and then if you click that it will enlarge my photo in my profile with a flash screen. This will give you a better idea of what I currently am looking like. If you can judge by this what else or to what degree of 'bulking' I might need, then beautiful. 

After that, the methods of bulking, ever so slightly I might add, would be wonderful, if you could describe or at least recommend a couple to me, bearing in mind my philosophy and what I am willing, versus unwilling to put in my body. In fact, when I started eating fish again the idea I had in my mind was that it would add lean body mass, instead of injecting me with too many fat lipids than I can work with. Of course I only started eating fish and dairy approximately one month ago, so the effects may not yet be forthcoming.

I will additionally state the following to help you understand my approach to health, given an open minded position in the face of your advise too. I am against 90% of the products they sell in GNC, because the majority of them contain artificial sweeteners and other ingredients that serve to slow down the metabolism as opposed to helping to keep it steady. Muscle milk is a good example. I am against it for the mere fact that it is not all natural, and that it contains artificial sweeteners which studies have shown damage the liver, contribute to the wrong kind of weight gain and slow down the metabolism in time. 

I just wanted to clarify my parameters. I am alot more opened to shopping for supplements and/or protein supplements in family health stores. So I am definitely opened to all your suggestions that might fall within these parameters. Thank you again and I hope I am not being a pest. 

Original Post by rarebookgirl:

You may find this difficult to believe, and all I can say is give it a try for at least a month, and then tell me you dont' see a difference - but you have to be honest about eating this every day...

Greens - greens will actually give you the protein you need, as protein is made from essential fatty acids, and not by eating meat that contains protien. However, the greens need to be eaten (protien or not) to build muscle. This will help to develop muscle around your rib cage as well, so you won't look so skeletal. PopEye really was onto something when he mentioned that spinach makes you stronger. If you don't believe the protien issue, you can add hemp seeds to your salads, or anymeal, as they are a complete protien, it allows you to remain vegan if you want.

If you consume a large salad everyday (uncooked greens are the best, if you cook them, you may not get the same results), you should start to see results fairly soon - eat as many greens as you can. It is also best to alternate the types of greens you eat, and to get organic greens, if possible. I know sometimes that is not really an option. I would also recommend that you do not use iceberg lettuce, it is the least nutritious out of all of the lettuces - which is normally OK, but if you want to build up those muscles around your ribcage, you need the nutrients - the darker green, the more nutritious it is. Herbs are also very nutritious and will serve the same purpose - such as cilantro, mint, etc.

To be honest, green smoothies are the best way to get in as many greens as you need a day, without having to eat so much. Fill your blender up with greens of your choice, add a little bit of water to get the blender going, then add any fruits that you want to use to sweeten it. I usually use banabas as a base, it makes all the difference in the world for the flavor - then add other fruits, if you want. I usually toss in some strawberries and maybe an orange - or other berries (frozen or fresh). Just be sure to get as many leafy green veggies in there as you can.

Original Post by rarebookgirl:

You may find this difficult to believe, and all I can say is give it a try for at least a month, and then tell me you dont' see a difference - but you have to be honest about eating this every day...

Greens - greens will actually give you the protein you need, as protein is made from essential fatty acids, and not by eating meat that contains protien. However, the greens need to be eaten (protien or not) to build muscle. This will help to develop muscle around your rib cage as well, so you won't look so skeletal. PopEye really was onto something when he mentioned that spinach makes you stronger. If you don't believe the protien issue, you can add hemp seeds to your salads, or anymeal, as they are a complete protien, it allows you to remain vegan if you want.

If you consume a large salad everyday (uncooked greens are the best, if you cook them, you may not get the same results), you should start to see results fairly soon - eat as many greens as you can. It is also best to alternate the types of greens you eat, and to get organic greens, if possible. I know sometimes that is not really an option. I would also recommend that you do not use iceberg lettuce, it is the least nutritious out of all of the lettuces - which is normally OK, but if you want to build up those muscles around your ribcage, you need the nutrients - the darker green, the more nutritious it is. Herbs are also very nutritious and will serve the same purpose - such as cilantro, mint, etc.

To be honest, green smoothies are the best way to get in as many greens as you need a day, without having to eat so much. Fill your blender up with greens of your choice, add a little bit of water to get the blender going, then add any fruits that you want to use to sweeten it. I usually use banabas as a base, it makes all the difference in the world for the flavor - then add other fruits, if you want. I usually toss in some strawberries and maybe an orange - or other berries (frozen or fresh). Just be sure to get as many leafy green veggies in there as you can.

What do you think of spirulina in powdered form? I have actually tried this once for a month, in conjunction with royal jelly, and it seemed to trigger something in me. There were times I felt as if I would turn into the incredible hulk (which would have been frightening for myself as well as other's).

I might start taking both again, in conjunction with my current diet and see what the result is. Do you know how nutrient rich spirulina powder is? If you do not, you should study it and/or try it out. The reason I actually opted to incorporate the spirulina into my diet as opposed to eating whole, leafy greens every day was simply economical.

One jar of spirulina powder costs approximately 20$ and it did induce a lot of nutrients into my body. The ratio compared to whole leafy greens I cannot say as I have not studied such comparisons, but I know I felt better with the inclusion of spirulina in my diet. Now, if you know anything about the nutrient availability in spirulina versus whole greens, please tell me. 

Hi there,

I rarely respond to posts but this one has got me interested.Like you I am trying to get a nice looking body but am coming from the other side as i am at about 19% body fat and trying to lose. I currently weigh about 214 pounds (down from 235) On the way I have read alot of information about dieting and building muscle (I work in IT and there's little to do at the moment so I spend alot of the day surfing the web). So some of the things I have picked up and are using myself :-

Muscle is difficult to build and keep. It costs the body energy to maintain muscle, so anytime there's not enough energy the body will prefer to lose muscle than fat because firstly less muscle means less energy upkeep and secondly fat doesnt have any energy costs to keep it as it is inert.

The body likes to keep things stable, in a constant state, and will adapt to changes, so if you want to keep changing your body you have to keep exposing it to different conditions. if you want to build muscle you have to progressively overload the muscles over time (as in workout to workout). You can do this in various ways: -

increase the weight lifted

increase the reps per set

increase the number of set

decrease the time taken to do the same exercises

but whichever way you do it you have to progressively overload your muscles or the body will become used to the environmental change and then stop responding. Which is why, for instance, people who do repetitive manual jobs dont have huge muscular development.

In order to gain muscle you should be eating about 1g protein per pound of body weight, so in your case thats 140g per day. I eat about 200g per day and the only way I can manage it is to use protein powders. The whey isolate proteins seem to be highly rated and are made from milk so I think they are ok for you.

You should eat about every 3 hours. I find that I have to plan my meals as I cant just think of 6 different meals to eat every day. It seems that at about 4 hours of no food your body will think that there is a shortage of food and start to keep hold of fat and start to lose muscle to start the process of coping withthe expected food shortage, so if you can feed every 3 hours your body will think everything is great and even spend some energy building muscle if it has the spare calories. If you eat a large meal after not eating for 4 hours your body, thinking that thre are still lean times ahead will be more likely to keep any excess calories as fat rather than muscle :(

With regards your training regime you need to progressively overload, so for example with the pushups, start with 3 sets of 30, then next session 3 sets of 31 and increase by 1 untl you reach 40, then maybe do 4 sets of 40. Once you can do lots of pushups try raising your feet off the floor (on a chair) and reduce the reps back down again. When you get stronger try doing pushups just on your hands using a wall to balance your feet on. If you just stick at 3x30 then your body will adapt quite quickly, so keep adding the pressure to your body.

try and work out what your maintenance calorie intake should be, and if you want to build muscle (which requires a calorific surplus) then eat between 250 - 500 calories more than that per day. Luckily you will put on more muscle than fat than me if I did the same because your body fat is so low.

You didnt say how long you had been training for but 2lbs weight gain may just be a temporary gain so it might help if you kept a weekly log of calories eaten and your weight.

Hmm, well thats all I can think of for now, hope I dont sound as though I know t all because I certainly dont, but am just repeating messages which seem to be fairly consistent across a few sites (including this one).

good luck

Magnu

try putting some hemp powder in your smoothies or foods.  and flax is also a good way to get protein.  ground flax seeds are real good in yogurt, and hemp powder is strange tasting, but super good with blueberries and bananas and yogurt and strawberries. whole foods sells both. 

ground flax has 90 cal. per serving and 2 g. protein (thats an okay amount of protein)

hemp powder has around 120 cal per serving and 13-16 g. protein (try that one)

i am a vegetarian so i have tested different kinds of grains.  so far, my favorite is millet (it is a seed actually) it takes 20 minutes to cook and goes good with any vegetable, or any non-soy veggie burger.  buckwheat is next.  

enjoy....  my teacher actually had something to do with spirulina.  This is a direct quote from my yearbook:

"In 1987 Spirulina, or Blue Green Algae, supplied five percent of the worlds protein.  Mr. Donnelley made a trip to South America in search of a source of protein to supply third world countries.  He found Blue Green Algea.  Blue Green Algae is not only a good source of protein but also a potential cure for cancer and gets rid of PMS." (2005)

that would be good for you getting over the moods swings!