Black Women and Society’s View of Them

To start, I am a black woman. For most of my life, I just thought of myself as an American, but around high school added “woman” to my identity. It hadn’t occurred to me to add “black” to my identity because well, look at me. I guess I didn’t need to add “woman” either, but I felt I had to defend it as an identity against those (whoever they might be) who wanted or tried to belittle or mistreat us. For a long, long time, I didn’t even realize I had to defend my central identity, “black woman,” even more staunchly.

Anyway, the reason for the post is a number of articles, and web comments/posts, I’ve read about black women. In short, some people across the race-nationality spectrum view black American women as unattractive, loud, emasculating, obnoxious, and sometimes as a “compliment,” “sassy” (obnoxious but entertaining?). This includes some black men’s view of black women.

My question: if you’re a black woman, how do you think other races and/or genders view you? Have you asked? Have you been told outright?

If you’re not a black woman, what do you think of them? What shaped your views? 

Well, I'm neither black nor a woman, but I would point out that TV program and movies DO in fact paint that particular portrait of Black Women. I mean... take.. pretty much anything Wanda Sykes is in.

What do you, as a black woman, think of how your race and sex are portrayed through the media?

hk - why?  dalmalama addressed a question to black women; why do you feel compelled to get your two cents in?  huh?  i could see if the thread had sat dormant for two hours, but after five minutes, you think she's desperate for your opinion?  come on.  you're not that important.

it kills me, HK. i try as hard as i can, with the people i interact with, to show them that black women aren't like that. i have never and will never say anything like, "i'm not like all the other black women you know/see. i'm different," because that would just give credence to the general stereotype of black women.

i try to put a new face on people's view of black women, while trying to kill the old one.  

PG: i asked for everybody's opinion. it's important to find out what everybody thinks, if they wanna share. but thanks, though.

Original Post by dalmalama:

it kills me, HK. i try as hard as i can, with the people i interact with, to show them that black women aren't like that. i have never and will never say anything like, "i'm not like all the other black women you know/see. i'm different," because that would just give credence to the general stereotype of black women.

i try to put a new face on people's view of black women, while trying to kill the old one.  

PG: i asked for everybody's opinion. it's important to find out what everybody thinks, if they wanna share. but thanks, though.

 Let us know what they're like as you see them. Throughout my life, I have found some of them to be some of the things you mentioned that you don't like, however, not all of them. It depends on the person and more specifically, their upbringing - including the upbringing by the society in which they are raised. I happen to have been raised in a community where the population of blacks was very scarce. The black women (and men) I did know were really no different than the whites as far as personality and temprement. I would like to hear what you have to say, though.

Interesting topic. I hope there is a good amount of sharing and honesty in the replies. It is so refreshing to be able to discuss things like this out in the open.

First off, I'm white. I grew up in a small rural community that had a handfull of black families. I was always fascinated by the clothes and hair of the black girls that went to my school. I loved their braids and colorful barrettes. Their clothes were always freshly ironed.

One of my earliest memories of school was coming in from the playground. I was in first grade.  This was 1966. There were two black girls talking to one of the teachers who had been supervising the playground. The younger one (Kindergartener) was crying and her sister (2nd) was defending her. She was telling the teacher that some of the kids on the playground had called her little sister the N word. I remember looking at the crying girl's face, looking at her sister and then watching the teacher. The teacher began asking for the names of the kids who taunted the girl. I remember vowing right there never to use that word because it could really hurt someone's feelings.

I think this moment made me more curious about people who were different than me. As I grew up I was always the first to make friends with anyone new. When I left and went to college in the "big city" I always made friends with people of different races.

Being white and having other whites assume I am as prejudiced as they has given me opportunities to dispel common myths and stereotypes. It has at times sickened me to find that people felt free to brandish their ignorance around me because they assumed I wouldn't disagree.

A couple of things I've heard often is that women are loud and/or pushy. What I see is women who aren't afraid to express themselves out in public.

I look forward to reading the comments.

And, I'm not black but not 'white'.

Pgeorgian, that was extremely low-class of you. I'm sure she would appreciate anyone's answers. Besides, you didn't even answer her question. Do you suppose your opinion was important? Why were you compelled to address HK? =) Just a thought.

I am not a black woman, but I can say that I have had my view of black women skewered somewhat by the media. It's just what I see most often because unfortunately there are not many black women in my community right now. However, I am very well aware that every single woman, black or white is different.

I have come across that stereotype of black women a couple of times, but I've seen more white women act this way. It's just that no one takes so much notice because that's not how the media portrays them. When people learn about a stereotype, they expect it and even try to see it.

I'm a woman but i'm not black. And while i could say that yes the majority of the black women I do know could be considered buy some as 'loud' and 'obnoxious' i've never really thought of it in that way.

 I would have described them just as confident, because to me thats what the girls i know are, really confident people. Just like the really confident white girls i know. I've never put that down to race, more that some people or just naturally able to let themselves go in a public space and amoungst friends with more ease than i could ever imagine my self doing

I have to tell you dalmalama, I sympathize with your position and let me tell you why. I have always recruited for very large, public organizations. To avoid being sued, these companies always have "diversity" departments and quotas which basically means, get some black people in here.

From what I can see, sadly that still needs to be in place because there are way too many white men running companies and guess who white men want to hire? Other white men! Then white men complain about how they are being pushed out and I get mad and that's a discussion for another thread. Let's get back to you.

So there you are, a black woman applying at one of these companies. You're a double gem because not only are you filling the black quota, you're filling the woman quota. It's perfect!

Now it comes time to downsize because some CEO lost a penny over the last year so obviously 5000 jobs need to be cut. I will guarantee you that despite how hard you bust your butt (and all black women I work with bust their butts for this very reason), if you are spared from the mass lay off EVERYONE will say the EXACT SAME THING: well of course they kept the black woman

I hope this post isn't too bold, out of line or upsetting since although I'm a woman I am not black, but this is what I see a lot of at my jobs. It's unfair that these women have to work twice as hard just so people don't say "well she just got hired because she's a black woman" , which they envariably do anyway.

i'm a white woman who was in a marriage with a black man for 9 years
I got along great with his mom (and still do)
my daughter is bi-racial

I agree with what you've said about, in general, how black American women are viewed in our culture, but I would say that it's a grossly inaccurate view

If I had to make a generalization (which I hate to do) it would be, maybe, that I think black American women are personally strong and less likely to take any guff (both attributes viewed by me as positive things)

But I know that's not really accurate either.  In my actual life, I know plenty of beautiful (drop dead gorgeous) black women. I know some that are quiet and even meek.  Some friendly and generous. Some highly intelligent and exceptionally wise and giving.  And I do know one who pickled her brain with alcohol and drugs and is less pleasant to be around.

But I think it's a shame when an individual person's demeanor and behavior is treated as somehow representative of "all black women" or "all white women" or whatever.  Black women are human - they represent as much diversity within their group as any other collection of people would.

I hope I haven't said anything to offend here.  Just sharing.  ***hugs***

I only know one black woman personally, my dad's ex wife. She's none of those things you mentioned, she was a somewhat quiet, polite (yet didn't seem friendly), strict, clean freak. However I do find a lot of younger black women (and men too) can be loud and obnoxious when I see them with a group in public (they aren't the only ones of course). HK has a point about how they're portrayed on tv, lots of attitude and toughness. I wonder if maybe that is what black women think they should be like? Or at least maybe it's reinforced by the media?

moonikins, i started going to a predominantly white all-girls' school in the 5th grade. when i started, there were exactly three black girls in my grade. and of course, we were bombarded with the hair questions. all the way through 12th grade (it was a k-12 school). and as more black girls joined the class (by 12th grade there were 10 of us, which was a huge amount for my school, especially since the entire grade only had 64 girls), the questions just became more numerous.

the biggest fascination is always the hair.

edit: no offense taken, spiro. btw, i got into my white all-girls' school because of a quota and was probably given preference to my college because of a quota, and i'm grateful for both. i wouldn't have had half the experiences i've had in my life without my education and the people i've met while learning wonderful things.

also, i was laid off last year, so the whole black woman thing wasn't a benefit there. as a matter of fact, i was the only black person at the company, but half of the company was let go. it definitely wasn't an affirmative action thing.

Personally I view everyone the same. As people. I am a white women, by the way. It's undeniable that a large percentage of people are raised to identify with their culture. And I think that it does affect a persons mannerisms. But there are also plenty of Americans of different backgrounds as mine (being Caucasian) that are just like me. Just plain old American. With American mannerisms and American views. America is the "mixing pot" and I just think it's great. I think everyone is different and thats how it should be. I don't have a bad or derogatory view of anyone because of the way they dress or talk or what they believe in or whatever else! I also don't think that there are just stereotypical views of black people or black women. There are Mexican stereotypes, Indonesian stereotypes, Asian stereotypes, AND white stereotypes! I've been called white trash, lol, white b*tch in Spanish, haha,  I've been called derogatory things about my color by every other race there is. Some people are just rude and talking **** about something you absolutely can't help (the color of your skin) is just one of the easiest ways to offend a person.

The sad thing is that many people these characters from TV and accept them as being true for every person. As a white person, I can't really say I ever experienced many problems in the States (asides from some rude people in h.s.) but finally being an extreme minority in a country has given a taste, albeit a small one, of how others are treated. I know a LOT of Koreans here base their opinions of foreigners here off Western tv and movies. I've been told that all Western girls are whores and will have sex with anyone. I've also been asked by many Korean friends in a serious, inquisitive manner, if all black people in the States were drug dealers and if they all had a bunch of kids. All I could do is tell them this was sooooo far from being the truth and encourage them to meet some of the (few) black people here in Korea to prove to them that this wasn't true.

As for my own opinion of black women... I've met all kinds so I can't say I have one idea of what a black woman is. Like all races there are loud and obnoxious, quiet and reserved, educated, stupid (etc) women.

"Sassy" is one stereotype that refers to the "wise mammy" icon.  In my interpretation of the word, it means a woman who isn't afraid to speak up and has some kind of common sense that other people have forgotten.  I'm Indian and people like to stereotype Indians as "wise" or "Noble savage" and it's kind of related to the sassy stereotype.  It's a condescending way of saying, "You're smart, and sometimes you're smarter than me, but only in a cute, safe way". 

The few times tv shows try to break those stereotypes (Bill Cosby, for example) people claim he is "whitewashing" Black people and
that they are fantastical.  In otherwords, different portrayals of Black people are rejected. 

I will add that tv portrayals of all people (white, Mexican, foreign) are all stereotyped and showcase the very worst of cultural norms and mores. 

dalma, hk, i apologize.  i misread the post and totally skipped the "if you're not a black woman" question.

me, i'm a white canadian woman.  i add "canadian" because when i see obnoxious people portrayed in the media, i cringe and change the channel, and because it's almost always american media.  i can't cope with yelling, people talking over each other, etc.  i honestly don't register colour or gender, i just register obnoxious and--sorry, but--american. 

here in western canada, people of african descent are a small minority compared to european and asian descendents.  truly obnoxious people are pretty rare in real life, and given the numbers, they're more often white or brown around here ;)

so, how do i see black women?  i hope and believe that i see them as women and withhold other assumptions until i have more information.

ideally, everybody would see that everybody is an individual, who just happens to be of a particular race or gender. personality traits aren't race traits, but not everybody gets that.

as for the "confident black woman thing," i think i have that. but i hate that it's become a "positive stereotype" for black women. i'm just trying to stand up for myself, and it has nothing to do with the fact that i'm a black woman. it has everything to do with the fact that i allowed myself to be a pushover most of my life and decided i didn't want that anymore. also, i like myself.

Original Post by dalmalama:

ideally, everybody would see that everybody is an individual, who just happens to be of a particular race or gender. personality traits aren't race traits, but not everybody gets that.

as for the "confident black woman thing," i think i have that. but i hate that it's become a "positive stereotype" for black women. i'm just trying to stand up for myself, and it has nothing to do with the fact that i'm a black woman. it has everything to do with the fact that i allowed myself to be a pushover most of my life and decided i didn't want that anymore. also, i like myself.

 There you go then. Its a personal thing, not a race thing.

I'm a white woman first of all. I grew up in a tighter knit community of upper middle class white folks. We were at the lower end of that spectrum. Outside of our community is a primarily (about 95%) black community. There's actually two black communities. Anyways.....one community is very "cultured", very financially well off and NONE of these people fit that stereotype. The other community fits the stereotype perfectly, they're "trashy". If they were white, we're talking beverly hills next to a trailer park.

These communities are built with the maroons sent from Jamaica during the slave trade. These people are direct descendants of people who escaped the slave trade only to get sent from Jamaica to Nova Scotia, so understandably, there's still "bad blood". But, growing up, I had one black friend in Elementary (boy), and one in High School (female). The female grew up in a very nice home, with two parents, lots of brothers and sisters and was a beautiful person.

So I think in my case, it's not necessarily race, but rather upbringing. But, that can be true of any sex and any race.

I hate how the media portrays stereotypes of any people. But, unfortunately, stereotypes exist for people of all sexes, races, religions, and sizes. And in some cases, those stereotypes are because the majority of people are seen as that way.

I try not to see a person based on anything other than as a person. Sometimes I fail and I'm sorry to say, but I do tend to stay away from men walking alone. There's a stereotype for ya (all men out walking are out to get you). I think as with everything, some black women are beautiful/gorgeous, especially the darker ones, and I love the confidence larger black women have (I wish I could have some of that), and I especially love that black women command respect.

I am a black woman and I would be happy to reply to this post because I understand exactly where you coming from.  I was raised in the DC metro area and I went to school with mostly black people but also had exposure to a significant number of white and asian folks.  Now as a black woman who works in a professional scientific environment, I spend most of my day working and socializing with white people.  I am very cognizant about acting in such a way as to dispel some of the stereotypes that plague us.

I hate to say this but generally speaking when comparing black women to women of other races particularly white or asian women, we are definitely more outspoken, demanding, aggressive, disrespectful, impatient, and dramatic.  However I am a mild mannered, introverted, respectful black woman and I know other black women who are like myself.  My personal experience has been that the most difficult people that I have lived and worked with are black women.  Maybe people of other cultures are more careful to be respectful and courteous around me, while the moment me and another sistah get together sparks fly.  I'm not sure about the cause there... 

I think much of this is more about class than race.  I was raised in middle class environment where the focus is to follow the rules, get a good education, and try to assimiliate with the other folks the best way you know how so that you can get a decent job and move up in the world.  However for lower economic black people (my daughter's father being one of them), the rules tend to be a little different.  Some of this is just due to ignorance I guess but some (not all) of the lower class folks seem embrace the idea that the white man is keeping them down and they tend to shun the idea that they might need to change how they relate to other people in order to fit in mainstream america and partake in the economic advantages available there. 

I too am very curious about how other folks view black women and I appreciate the comments that have been posted thus far.  Please keep them coming.