Bugs.

So, I'm really curious after reading a few posts.  I understand vegan and vegetarian style very well except for a few points.  I understand not eating meats because it kills the animal, or not eating honey because the farming of bees, and even not eating eggs.  But I DO have a few questions to vegans and vegetarians out there.

1) Are bugs considered 'animals' to you?  If so, if there was a bug or spider on you, what would you do?

2) Would you kill a snake?

3) Does obtaining wool or silk harm the animal?  And if not, why are so many vegans and vegetarians against using wool and silk?

4) If I eat vegan or vegetarian for a year and have a 'slip up' on accident, am I still a vegan/veggie or does my 'timer' start over?

5) Do you still feed your pets meat products?

6) Do your family members still eat meat or is your entire family vegetarian, vegan?

7) What exactly is a flexatarian vegetarian?

8) Do you consider sugar vegan?

and lastly 9) How many of you (veggies only) have your house sprayed for rodents or keep your pets in cages?

Thanks!!! (And yes these are serious questions!!! I am considering becoming vegetarian and am curious about this stuff!)

1) Are bugs considered 'animals' to you?  If so, if there was a bug or spider on you, what would you do? Yes, I consider bugs animals. If there was a bug or spider, I would escort it outside. :P

2) Would you kill a snake? No.

3) Does obtaining wool or silk harm the animal?  And if not, why are so many vegans and vegetarians against using wool and silk? I'm not too sure on this myself but I would not use silk, wool or any materials that came from an animal because it's not ours to take.

4) If I eat vegan or vegetarian for a year and have a 'slip up' on accident, am I still a vegan/veggie or does my 'timer' start over? You are still considered a vegetarian. It was an accident and no intentional.

5) Do you still feed your pets meat products? Since I currently don't have pets, I don't know if this is applicable. I would have to consult a veterinarian though.

6) Do your family members still eat meat or is your entire family vegetarian, vegan? I am the only vegetarian in my household.

7) What exactly is a flexatarian vegetarian? A flexitarian is not a vegetarian. A flexitarian is someone who consumes meat occasionally with a vegetarian based diet.

and lastly 8) How many of you (veggies only) have your house sprayed for rodents or keep your pets in cages? I have never sprayed for rodents or kept my pets in cages.

There is no vegan/vegetarian bible so vegetarians would give you different answers. People become vegetarian for different reasons .

1. i will swat a fly if it pisses me off.. but I won't eat it after.

2. i have a pet snake and i would never hurt it or any other snakes

3. don't know

4. no your timer does not start over. I once ate a slice of chicken when I wasn't sober. Just laughed it off, wasn't traumatic or anything.

5. I still feed my snake dead mice because that's the only thing it's allowed to eat. If I don't feed it, it will die, if I let it out in my garden, it will also die. When I became a vegetarian I decided no longer to feed my snake live mice, frozen ones instead. I find it more humane.

6. Only one in my family :)

7. flexitarian is another word for 'picky eater'

8. I've never sprayed for rodents. my snake lives in a tank.

1) I think all life is sacred; however, I will kill a spider if it's in my apartment (I feel bad about it but fear kinda over rides the guilt), but if it's out side I leave it alone -- except the black widow at the pool two days ago, I got the maintence man to kill it b/c c'mon, it could kill the kids that swim at the pool. 

2) I'd slowly back away from the snake.  Again it depends, if it's outside I'm going to just leave it alone.  If it's inside I'm going to scream and get my husband to deal with it however he sees fit. 

3)  I hated wool way before I ever stopped eating meat.

4) Since vegetarain eating habits are a "choice" it's not like vegan satan will drag your meat eating soul to hell if you dare eat meat.  I would feel bad if I found out I ate meat (like when I found out jiffy corn bread has animal lard in it, I was mad).  But if you were "slipping up" often you'd be more of a flexatarain. 

5) I've seen vegan dog and cat food in Veg New (a mag) and I can kinda see why people would buy it b/c cat food is made from bits of the same factory farmed animals.  But I think cats and dogs were meant to be meat eaters, it's how they evolved, so I just feed my cat Kitten Chow. 

6) At first I tried to cook meat a few times a week for my husband (didn't want to force him to change just b/c one day I decided I wanted to protest american agribusiness), but he told me to stop b/c he felt better when he ate vegetarian (but he still eats meat when we're at his parents house or at a resturant so he's a flexatarain). 

7) Flexatarains are like sporks.

8) Not a vegan so havn't thought about it, I use florida crystals and so does my vegan friend so I'm guess that's vegan. 

9)  My apartment does routine spraying.  And with a cat I don't see me ever spraying for rodents.  I do have three hermit crabs in a fish tank, but once they're gone I'm not replacing them b/c I don't like the idea of keeping a pet that has a 20 year life span in the wild and a 1-5 year life span in some one's house, and the little things are hard to take care of properly anyway. 

I did declaw my cat, which is cruel, but I'm sure he's happier with me, missing front claws, then at the shelter I adopted him from where his eyes were leaking yellow puss from infections, tape worms were starving him, and respirtory viruses had him near phemonia.
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If you're thinking about being a vegetarian I wouldn't worry about little things.  Like I said, there's no vegetarian/vegan god that rewards you and no vegetarain/vegan satan that punishes you.  It's all about what you feel about certain issues.  Vegetarains for health reasons are probably more slack about animal issues (like wool, silk, leather, honey) then people doing it just to save animals. 

1) Bugs are considered animals to me, but I would kill one (or have someone else do it..) if it was in my house. I've had a very irrational fear of certain bugs ever since i was a child, and even my vegan morals can't overcome it...

2) Why would i ever kill a snake! No. I would not even consider killing a snake. 

3) I'm pretty sure that the actual act of attaining wool is not harmful to the animal, and as i understand it, it's actually beneficial. But it's the wool industry that is harmful. The animals are kept in horrible conditions with only the basic needs of life, and this is why most vegans boycott the wool and silk industry. There are probably certain exceptions, say, if you saw exactly where the animals were kept and could make a choice for yourself wether it was humane or not. 

4) If the slip up is an accident, then I wouldn't even think twice about still calling myself a vegan. If it is intentional, then i would reconsider my lifestyle and see if it was actually what i wanted. I don't think it's fair to still eat the meat because you want to, and then call yourself a vegetarian. 

5) I do. Because animals need quite a bit of protien to survive. Their natural instincts are to eat meat, and they do not have the brain capacity of humans to use their resources to find other means of nutrition. It's not their fault, and it would almost be punishment to not feed them the protein they crave. Although, i do try to buy a vegetarian brand once in a while to see if they'll take. 

6) I'm the only vegan in my family. Although my mom and sister do not eat pork or beef. And my sister was a vegetarian for quite awhile, but her coach told her she had to eat meat to stay on the team (which i think is HIGHLY inappropriate)

7) A flexetarian is someone who can't make up their mind and wants either the attention or peace of mind of being called a 'somewhat' vegetarian. Its an annoyance of mine. 

8) Yes.

and lastly 9) Ew. I would never exterminate a rodent in my household. A bug problem, yes (see first answer...). and i do not keep my pets in cages unless they are a danger to themselves or others. (We had a dog who would chew on things until her teeth bled if we left her home alone and not in a crate. It was sad but necessary to keep her in a crate when we weren't home)

hope this helps! 

1) Are bugs considered 'animals' to you? If so, if there was a bug or spider on you, what would you do? I consider insects and spiders as living things.  However, I am not the Buddha and have smashed a few mosquitoes in my day.  Non-black widow spiders get put outside, black widows are pointed out to my husband who does the deed. 

2) Would you kill a snake? No.  We live in an area with a good number of snake species, including rattlers and there's just no good reason to kill them.  We do encourage them to leave the front porch however.

3) Does obtaining wool or silk harm the animal? And if not, why are so many vegans and vegetarians against using wool and silk? I don't think obtaining wool specifically hurts the animal, but I think the "farming" techniques of keeping them probably isn't such a happy experience.  Obtaining silk involves killing the silkworms.

4) If I eat vegan or vegetarian for a year and have a 'slip up' on accident, am I still a vegan/veggie or does my 'timer' start over?  You're still a vegetarian/vegan.

5) Do you still feed your pets meat products? We don't currently have any pets, but when our cat was still alive, he ate meat, which cats require.

6) Do your family members still eat meat or is your entire family vegetarian, vegan?  My husband is also a vegetarian, no one else in my family is.

7) What exactly is a flexatarian vegetarian? Not a vegetarian

8) Do you consider sugar vegan? No

9) How many of you (veggies only) have your house sprayed for rodents or keep your pets in cages?  We have not sprayed for rodents.  My husband has set traps in the past (ewww). 

1) Are bugs considered 'animals' to you?  If so, if there was a bug or spider on you, what would you do?  Yep. I would only harm the bug if it posed a danger to me, ie poisonous spider.  I do understand a reflex reaction to swat at bugs

2) Would you kill a snake? Ditto

3) Does obtaining wool or silk harm the animal?  And if not, why are so many vegans and vegetarians against using wool and silk? Yes. Silk is obtained by boiling the worms alive, so I don't use it.  The wool industry is notorously cruel, especially in Australia.  The muelsing process slices off parts of a lamb's backside without an painkillers.  Other countries have eliminated this process, but Australia has not.

4) If I eat vegan or vegetarian for a year and have a 'slip up' on accident, am I still a vegan/veggie or does my 'timer' start over?  I think this is an issue of whether you know something isn't veg.  If a restaraunt used a non-veg stock and told you the meal was veg, that isn't your fault.  That is very different than occasionally eating meat on purpose.  I think frequency is also pretty important.  If you slip up on rare occasion, you can still be veg, but the person who "slips up" and eats Chick-fil-A every week is not.

5) Do you still feed your pets meat products?  Veg products are availible for dogs and cats.  That is a personal choice that you should make with your vet.

6) Do your family members still eat meat or is your entire family vegetarian, vegan? My fiance eats veg at home.  My parents and siblings are not veg.

7) What exactly is a flexatarian vegetarian?  That is not a vegetarian. 

8) Do you consider sugar vegan?  There are vegan sugars availible.  I think it is important to not act like a nut case on this issue. I buy vegan sugars at home and prefer them when availible, but if say a family member made me a wonderful vegan cake but was unaware of the sugar issue, I certainly wouldn't ask about it. 

and lastly 9) How many of you (veggies only) have your house sprayed for rodents or keep your pets in cages? I don't hire an exterminator. 

I really like your questions set. I'm not going to define myself as any kind of diet-identity, but I have a mostly fruit and vegetable based diet. Previously, I've been vegan have decided that it wasn't a good lifestyle choice for me.  I live in northeast Asia, so I'm more of a pragmatist...

1) Are bugs considered 'animals' to you?  If so, if there was a bug or spider on you, what would you do? Yes and no. I think bugs are an important dietary protein for different parts of the world and a much better alternative than industrialized livestock production. I'm a species-ist though, so eating caterpillars, snails, and mealworms is more responsible than slaughtering animals on the large scale, or even keeping them for dairy, in terms of environmental impact. Sorry, mammals have bigger brains and can feel pain, and the environmental impact of a large meat industry is pretty awful. 

I kill bugs. Mosquitoes carry diseases and hurt. Also, I hate bugs crawling on my face at night when I sleep. 

2) Would you kill a snake? If I knew it was poisonous and going to bite me, yes. Garden variety snakes hanging out, no.

3) Does obtaining wool or silk harm the animal?  And if not, why are so many vegans and vegetarians against using wool and silk? I guess so, because you have to kill the worms and keep domesticated sheep, but ultimately I like wool and silk. Also, the countries that produce silk (Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam) have strong traditions and need the money. Sometimes I think vegetarian Western attitudes sometimes forget that a lot of people don't have the same economic and environmental situations. But whatevs, I love durable clothing and chose wool and silk over polyester and rayon any day. 

4) If I eat vegan or vegetarian for a year and have a 'slip up' on accident, am I still a vegan/veggie or does my 'timer' start over? Nobody's perfect. I find that worrying about slip-ups is certainly the way to court an eating disorder. Also, it depends on the mentality of the individual. If you're like an anarcho-primitivist- Ted Nugent-I only eat what I kill but am vegan because I hate industrialized society type, and you hunt, kill, and dress an animal with you're own bare hands, I guess that's not technically vegetarian, but you'd better eat it if you've already gone and done it. 

5) Do you still feed your pets meat products? I don't have a pet, but I used to have a pet newt. I fed him fish pellets. He also would eat his own skin after he shed it, so I didn't really feel weird about the fish pellets. Plus I tried to feed him guppies, but he was too slow and they ate all of his food and **** up the tank. 

6) Do your family members still eat meat or is your entire family vegetarian, vegan? They will always eat meat forever, but I force them to go to vegetarian restaurants with me.

7) What exactly is a flexatarian vegetarian? It is a person who tries to eat vegetarian mostly, but doesn't want to make a big deal out of it and still likes to chow down on burgers, or something...? Maybe someone who reads a lot of lifestyle magazines and is trying to be sensitive. 

8) Do you consider sugar vegan? No. Bones are used in the industrial process. But this is probably a reason that I don't call myself vegan.

and lastly 9) How many of you (veggies only) have your house sprayed for rodents or keep your pets in cages? Not me! 

1) Are bugs considered 'animals' to you?  If so, if there was a bug or spider on you, what would you do?

I consider insects members of the animal kingdom. I would only kill one if it was in self defense, or defense of others.  I will definately slap a mosquito that is biting me, but I won't step on some innocent bug that isn't a danger to anyone.

2) Would you kill a snake?

see above. If it was in defense of myself or someone else yes, if it was minding its only business and not causing trouble I would leave it alon

3) Does obtaining wool or silk harm the animal?  And if not, why are so many vegans and vegetarians against using wool and silk?

I don't know much about silk, other than it is way out of my budget and too slippery. Wool itself doesn't harm the animal, but some farms operate under inhumane conditions.  I am not against all wool but I would want to know where it came from. I have a gorgeous alpaca sweater, that was made with organic alpaca wool. I don't wear it much because it itches without something under it, and its a pita to wash.

4) If I eat vegan or vegetarian for a year and have a 'slip up' on accident, am I still a vegan/veggie or does my 'timer' start over?

There are no 'veggie police' that will come and arrest you. Let your conscience be your guide.  If it was an accident (eg you didn't realize there was meat/cheese in something) than it was just that.  If you did it on purpose, than you need to think about if it is a lifestyle you are ready for.  Too many people don't realize that vegetarianism isn't just a diet or something to do on a lark. It ecompases your whole lifestyle, your whole way of seeing things.

People choose veg/veganism for many reasons, health, ethics, religion, rebellion or any combination of the above plus others.   I don't just avoid meat I actually can't stomach the though of eating it again (I was raised omnivore).  I don't even think about if I want meat/milk, I seek the veggie options the way a bee seeks nectar. 

It all comes down to what you really feel is best for YOU, and what you are ready to do.

5) Do you still feed your pets meat products?

I don't currently have any pets, however not all animals can survive on a plant based diet. Cat's for example must have animal protein in order to survive and thrive. Humans can survive quite nicely w/o ingesting any animal products.

6) Do your family members still eat meat or is your entire family vegetarian, vegan?

I'm the only veg in my family, but fortunately the rest of my family also loves veggies they just want some meat with it.

7) What exactly is a flexatarian vegetarian?

A flexitarian is an almost vegetarian.  Someone who eats mostly vegetarian but still consumes meat/poultr/fish on ocassion.

8) Do you consider sugar vegan?

It depends on the sugar. Some sugar (particulary beet sugar) is bleached thru a process using bone chard from cattle). But there are also unbleached and organic sugars as well.  

the less processed the sugar that better it is. Molasses for example is loaded with calcium and iron (bleached white sugar has no nurition). Cane sugar that has not been processed is also a better option.

I do sometimes use sugar, but more often I used agave, maple syrup, stevia, molasses, unbleached sugar (its pricey but heavenly), or even sometimes fructose (not the same as HFCS).

 9) How many of you (veggies only) have your house sprayed for rodents or keep your pets in cages?

See above, I have no pets. However I think animals should live in their natural  habitat or as close to it as possible. We would hate living in a closet or a bedroom with out access to the outdoors and the abilty to come and go as we please (sounds like prison doesn't it). Animals should have similiar rights. Cats and dogs have been domesticated for so long that our environment has largely become thier environment.

I wouldn't never use a pestitide they are as toxic to  us as they are to them. I've never had an infestations, but I know there are other options

Original Post by keys1987:

So, I'm really curious after reading a few posts.  I understand vegan and vegetarian style very well except for a few points.  I understand not eating meats because it kills the animal, or not eating honey because the farming of bees, and even not eating eggs.  But I DO have a few questions to vegans and vegetarians out there.

1) Are bugs considered 'animals' to you?  If so, if there was a bug or spider on you, what would you do?

2) Would you kill a snake?

3) Does obtaining wool or silk harm the animal?  And if not, why are so many vegans and vegetarians against using wool and silk?

4) If I eat vegan or vegetarian for a year and have a 'slip up' on accident, am I still a vegan/veggie or does my 'timer' start over?

5) Do you still feed your pets meat products?

6) Do your family members still eat meat or is your entire family vegetarian, vegan?

7) What exactly is a flexatarian vegetarian?

8) Do you consider sugar vegan?

and lastly 9) How many of you (veggies only) have your house sprayed for rodents or keep your pets in cages?

Thanks!!! (And yes these are serious questions!!! I am considering becoming vegetarian and am curious about this stuff!)

1. Some bugs are considered animals to me. I've read up on bees so they're definitely in this category. However, I have no qualms putting up fly paper to catch flies and gnats- they are pests. They fly around my face and land on my food. There is no way I would have the time and patience to capture them all and escort them outside. I've seen various spiders in my house- but I have yet to be bitten by any of them. Perhaps I'm courting danger, but the only reason they got in was my crappy rent house-- escorting them out will be a fight of futility as they will just come back in and messing with them for their escort will probably lead me to get bitten. Besides, maybe they'll eat the flies and gnats. Spiders are very beneficial to the bug balance. haha

2. I don't understand this question. You understand bees but you don't understand that reptiles are an animal as well? No Vegan/vegetarian would kill a snake unless it was a danger to them.

3.obtaining silk from worms and obtaining wool from sheep doesn't actually harm them-- but a lot of Vegans have a stand of NON Exploitation. Those animals did NOT make those things for us therefore they are not ours. Also, they usually keep the animals in poor conditions-- and once they stop producing lovely wool, I'm sure they send those sheep to be killed and eaten. Therefore, buying wool supports animal exploitation and death. SOME vegans find it acceptable to wear items they already own as to throw it away is not only irresponsible but you're wasting that animals death altogether. SOME will still buy second hand items from used clothing stores, as those purchases do not support the actual making of them. I PERSONALLY will not throw away things I own, I may give them away. But I don't want to buy more items of it at all. To each their own.

4. If it's on accident, then no timer (imagined or otherwise) will restart. If you state "Screw it!" and eat a ham sandwich, then I second reconsidering the transition. I've just been labeling myself a vegetarian/vegan wanna be for the last few months. I'm fine with that label.

5. I disagree with the above statements that animals are meant to be carnivores. If you don't research, in depth, all the resources available (books, research papers) as well as the internet, then you can't claim to be informed enough to make the statement that animals are obligate carnivores. I've done this, and I'm transitioning my 3 dogs as of right now to their new dog food and have been preparing them a separate dinner almost every night for a month now. It can be done. It can be entirely healthy. Dogs are actually OMNIVORES, just as humans are. Wolves are in a different category and so are cats. To say that they are naturally supposed to eat meat is to say that humans are naturally meant to eat meat. People are usually stating opinions of what they think is "natural" and not actual truths/facts. I'd like to state that I know a lot of folks will disagree with me and that it will be pointless as I have researched in depth and will not change my mind (unless my animals actually sicken, I see no issues.)

6. I have a brother that is vegetarian, and a sister that restricts her meat intake, although she hasn't given it up. I have another sister that is 14 and our mother won't allow her to be vegetarian because "it's too expensive." Which is a ridiculous claim as she and my 2 sisters survive mainly off of cereal and take out. She's just too lazy to cook and doesn't feel the urge to change, and since she won't support her own daughter on this by helping her and cooking for her, she demands a non vegetarian life of her own children. (living with her of course). She will only provide what is easy and "cheap" in her mind. I live with an omnivore bf and he doesn't cook meat in the house. That takes balance and open minded ness.

7. I'm skipping this as others have already explained. After pondering it though, I think this term would apply to my older sister.

8. You can get Vegan sugars. If it was whitened with the bone char process, I don't consider it vegan, just as I don't consider the gelatin in most jellos and puddings vegan. I've gotten unbleached cane sugar before, but have recently switched to Xylitol

1) Are bugs considered 'animals' to you?  If so, if there was a bug or spider on you, what would you do?  I typically try to scoop them up and fling them outside, but if that isn't possible, then yes, I will kill them.

2) Would you kill a snake?  No, I'd run screaming in the other direction!  We had little baby snakes that kept getting in our house, and I would always carry them outside.  Even if it was an adult snake, I definitely couldn't kill one unless it was threatening me, another human, or my dogs and we couldn't get away.

3) Does obtaining wool or silk harm the animal?  And if not, why are so many vegans and vegetarians against using wool and silk?  Even before I went, veg, I didn't use either product : Wool is itchy and silk is a generally unflattering, clingy fabric! 

4) If I eat vegan or vegetarian for a year and have a 'slip up' on accident, am I still a vegan/veggie or does my 'timer' start over?  Still veggie.  I think it has more to do with your intent than what you have done in the past.

5) Do you still feed your pets meat products?  Yes.  I do feed my dogs a veg food, which they like and the vet said was healthy, but I also still give them meaty treats and stuff.  I also feel like dogs really probably should eat meat, even though humans don't need to.  I do feel bad because I know I am still contributing to factory farming, though.

6) Do your family members still eat meat or is your entire family vegetarian, vegan?    Everyone else in my family eats meat.

7) What exactly is a flexatarian vegetarian?  I think this has been sufficiently answered :)

8) Do you consider sugar vegan?  Most sugar is made using bone char; thus, not vegan.  However, you can buy vegan sugar that was not made using bone char.  This is what I buy.

9) How many of you (veggies only) have your house sprayed for rodents or keep your pets in cages?  I have never sprayed for (or even heard of spraying for) rodents... we don't have a rat problem anyway.  I only have 2 dogs so nothing that requires being put in a cage.