You can't build muscle with a deficit, so why am I lifting weights?

I know there has to be a reason!  Am I doing it to keep the muscle I have?  To burn fat?  I have always included weight and resistance exercises in my workouts and am trying to have a deficit every day to lose some weight (15-20lbs) and was wondering what the purpose of my lifting was! 

Thanks!

Yep - maintain muscle while eating at a deficit and help burn fat.

Maintain muscle only, If you do not want or need to look like the hulk weights are not needed all the time.

Remember everybody is diffrent.

nieto - why do you say that lifting weights won't help burn fat?

And did I read that right? Are you suggesting that people who lift weights "want or need to look like the hulk"? Seriously??

To say it "burns fat" is misleading.  It burns calories not fat. 

Good point, trhawley - but it helps burn fat by burning calories, potentially leading to a deficit (which is dependent on diet).

I knew I could rely on caloriecount for an answer!  Thanks!

You can build muscle with a deficit! I have.

Original Post by healthmd:

You can build muscle with a deficit! I have.

Some people who are new to lifting can gain some muscle when they start out.  And most think they have gained muscle, when actually what they have done is get rid of the layers of fat covering up the muscle they already have.

But as others have said, it is hard for women to build appreciable amounts of muscle.  It becomes virtually impossible if they are in a deficit. 

That's why most body builders go through bulk/cut phases.  They eat a surplus and try to gain muscle, and then they diet to try to reduce fat while maintaining the muscle.

Weight training is important for more than just building muscle. Runners who do a lot of cardio lose bone density. Lifting weights helps to reduce this.

Here is some evidence backing this up.

"Numerous studies demonstrate strength training's ability to increase bone mass, especially spinal bone mass. According to Keeton, a research study by Ontario's McMaster University found that a year-long strength training program increased the spinal bone mass of postmenopausal women by nine percent. Furthermore, women who do not participate in strength training actually experience a decrease in bone density."

http://www.naturalnews.com/010528.html

A decrease in bone density is especially bad for women as we are the ones who usually end up with osteoporosis (especially elderly women).

Hey karozel, that's what I always heard! women cannot bulk up with a deficit caloric intake. And it's hard to believe that my rock hard shoulders were already under my fat. LOL. I felt quite confident about constantly increasing the weight at the weight machines, I'm not going to bulk, right? I want definition but I don't want look bulky (there's an interesting thread on this topic today).  I've been going to the gym consistently for  a year doing strength for upper and lower body twice a week (thus, 4 days a week). And I also do high intensity cardio for at least 6 months, that's where most of my deficit comes from. My average eating was 1650 cal. And indeed I saw definition but not really bulking up. Anyway, after reading NROLFW in March, I increased my protein intake to 20% (can never go as high as the recommended 30%), 30% fat, 50% carbs. Drinking protein shakes right after I did strength. My daily calorie intake was 1800 in April and I started to see an increase in muscle mass and I lost 4.5lb that month. My intake in May increased to 1900 and this month so far 1950. And I'm at a cross roads where I'm not sure if I should really keep lifting as much because I start to feel bigger now than when I was 9lbs lighter 2 months ago. And I lost some inches. Weird, isn't it? And I'm at my lightest in a very long long time (I've lost 95lbs in the last 14 months).

All I'm saying is that as long as by deficit you don't mean eating 1200 cal daily, but eat a protein rich 1800-2000 cal while lifting weights (not the light weight high rep routine), it's still possible to have muscle build up. It's not the high body builder build up, but it's a visible increase that keep getting compliments at the gym. My ultimate goal, may seem silly, is to do a chin up, so far I can do 5 assisted with just taking 20lb off my weight. Losing the last 10lbs  should put me up there.

mcoll3, keep lifting weights, very important for bone health specially for women.

Lifting weights is the best way to transform your body. The only way to build that lean muscle you need to raise metabolism and burn bodyfat is through lifting. A lot of people still get worried by their scale weight for some reason, when it is actually the last thing you should be worried about if you exercise regularly. If you lift weights, you are naturally going to put on some weight. However, it is from putting on muscle.

There was a great line I read on a website once that said a person can be overweight but not overfat. That is why I always recommend to people that they should go into exercise with the mentality of "I want to lose bodyfat" instead of "I want to lose weight". This leads to better eating habbits and prevents doing too much cardio and having too high a calorie defecit. A better way to keep track of results instead of the scale, is by getting bodyfat % measured along with other measurements like waist, etc.. Then get new measurements every two months or so. Along the way keep track of how clothes are fitting and how you look in the mirror.

When people try to lose scale weight, they have a tendency to have huge calorie deficits and do too much cardio resulting in muscle loss. So while they may lose weight, it is more from losing muscle which is what you don't want. My advice is to keep up with the weight training consistently, and get enough calories of the right types of foods. It is funny because more often than not, people actually should be eating more than they do.

And just because you can't gain mass, doesn't mean you can't gain strength.

Original Post by healthmd:

And it's hard to believe that my rock hard shoulders were already under my fat. LOL.

I know.  But if you think about it, people who are heavier have more muscle just to move themselves around.  So, if they lose the fat but keep the muscle, you get that "rock hard shoulders" effect.

Original Post by healthmd:

My daily calorie intake was 1800 in April and I started to see an increase in muscle mass and I lost 4.5lb that month. My intake in May increased to 1900 and this month so far 1950. And I'm at a cross roads where I'm not sure if I should really keep lifting as much because I start to feel bigger now than when I was 9lbs lighter 2 months ago. And I lost some inches. 

Well - looks to me from your pictures that it is WORKING!  You look great and by no means bigger 

Sorry about my reply # 2, I should have worded it different. Like I said everybody is different personally and I was typing fast, looks like we got lots of good answers to think about.

Nieto

Original Post by susiecue:

Original Post by healthmd:

And it's hard to believe that my rock hard shoulders were already under my fat. LOL.

I know.  But if you think about it, people who are heavier have more muscle just to move themselves around.  So, if they lose the fat but keep the muscle, you get that "rock hard shoulders" effect.

 Ok, I totally agree with that for the legs, my calves are huuuge from carrying my weight around! If anyone one knows how spot reduce muscle, ha ha. However, unless you do a lot of above the head lifting, chin ups and pushups you're not going to have rock hard shoulders no matter your weight. Even baby lifting, although great for the biceps, doesn't work shoulders a s much. Anyway, in my case there was hardly any lifting! yogagirl gave me the idea to change my profile pic temporarily just to make a point. To me that's muscle build up and it only happened after I upped my calories and protein,  still losing weight albeit slow (around 4lbs a month).

yogagirl, thanks for the compliments! But it's hard to see in the other pictures, check the new one. Again I'm not huge but my upper body is starting to look like Kelly Ripa or Madonna. I have mixed feelings about that look, I don't hate it but it's also not the most feminine. I'm not there yet, it's still good but I just don't know how to proceed. Should I keep increasing the weight or the reps? Any ideas?

Well, if that's you in the picture.  I would *love* to have shoulders and arms like that!

And yes, I do think they were hiding under the fat -- at least most of them. 

Unless you are continuing to lose weight and your measurements are getting bigger I doubt you are adding much muscle.  It's just being revealed in all it's glory. 

Very well done!!!

These responses are fantastic, and SO informative.  I definitely will keep lifting weights.  I'd heard the bit about bone density before and I've always believed that it is good for my health I just didn't know *why*, especially when I am trying to create a deficit. 

Now, another question, since you are all so knowlegeable!  People say low weight high reps are not effective - why?  And low rep higher weights are effective - why?  And what constitutes either?  If I can do 15-20 reps at a particular weight, is this high rep or low rep?  Should I be shooting for exhaustion at 2 reps? 5 reps? 10 reps? 

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your answers.  There are so many well-informed people on this website, it is such an excellent source for information!

Thank you! 

Low weigh/high reps will help your muscle endurance, but won't challenge your muscles enough to increase strength. There's a much longer answer, but I'd mess it up. Hell, I'm not even sure what I just wrote was dead accurate.

Anywhere from 12 and under is considered "low reps". Do variations, but if you are doing lower reps, you might want to increase sets. For instance, you could do 2-3 sets of 8-12 reps, but if you were only doing 5 reps, you might want to do 5 sets of 5 (5x5).

Check out the Fitness FAQ's for melkor's list of lifting programs. You'll be sure to find one that suits you.

agree with karozel - they were hiding.

low weight/high reps is just cardio. Its not tearing the muscle down for it to rebuild itself.

If I understand correctly (I'll be corrected if I'm wrong I hope)... you want to aim for failure at rep 12. Some say 8 or 10. I'm failing out at 10 in some things and 12 in others. By my 3rd set I can't do all the reps. When I can punch out 12 reps easy, I will have to buy new weights. Looks like I'm still a ways from that though.