| Forum | Topic | Date | Replies |
| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - December 14 - 20th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Dec 17 2008 13:24 (UTC) |
26 |
Original Post by supersized: Thanks for the advice, but I guess I use this list to get all my worries out - I don't really worry about the maintenance. I will always remember that I was at this weight once before (through hard work - not counting before I gained weight) and I am not going to lose what I gained! (or gain what I lost... you know what I mean.) And each of us is different in our weight loss - I for example have been weighing myself everyday and plan to continue. If the weight goes up I know why and I can compensate accordingly before it gets too far. I would freak out if I was trying to lose weight and could not check my progress - who knows what could be happening! Like you told Wenchie, the scale is just data that you can use. I have also been thinking about the weight lifting - and I am starting to face the fact that I did not really enjoy the power lifting (that's the real reason I did not go back!) and I am better off doing exercise that I enjoy and will keep doing (walking, pilates, indoor rock climbing) than lifting weights just because it would be good for weight loss. But I am lucky that I have a good base of muscle anyway! Lalie |
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| Fitness | PT said i can build muscles on a calorie deficit | Dec 17 2008 01:17 (UTC) |
14 |
Original Post by fourfolks: Nutrition 101: you need proteins to build protein (muscle) so you can't make muscle from frat - you can use the fat for energy, which might free up the dietary proteins for muscle building,
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - December 14 - 20th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Dec 14 2008 23:36 (UTC) |
42 |
Well, this past week has had its ups and downs. Made it to my goal weigth but mostly because I was dehydrated. then ate too much at a Xmas party so the weight moved back up a few lbs. Then back down - maintained for a couple of days then, back up for my period!! I seem to also be having a bit of trouble with increasing what I eat in order to maintain the goal weight: Once I start eating a bit more - the flood gates open and I want everything. (or at least those two chocolate chip cookies I ate last night - but I did recognise that I was full after two/ and it was probably the hormones talking, since i don't even like chocolate chip all that much!) EXERCISE: Like tiegurl I also love to walk, so that is my first choice for exercise. If I have the time I will walk everywhere. On a weekly basis I have been doing a pilates class 2X per week (+ 30 min walk each way) and My weight watcher's meeting is downtown which is 60 min each way. I have also been known to walk home from various friends houses/ errands which can be up to a 2 hour walk. I also bought a rowing machine, so that on days when I have not done any walking/ pilates, I can row while watching TV in the evenings. I am still planning to start doing some weight lifting, in my case the Olympic weight lifting club because it is so inexpensive, close to my house and has very flexible hours but I did about 1 hour a couple of weeks ago and couldn't use my quads for the next week and a half!!!! I will try again soon, but I will admit to being a wimp this time and use the tiniest weights possible so I don't do that again. (I was only lifting 15kg the first day, but I'll stick with 10 kg next time) I keep dreaming of going back to the gym and running on the treadmill like I did last year but I have only so much money and would rather spend it on the pilates classes. And congrats! defrog ! Is this your first? Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - December 7 - 13th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Dec 11 2008 13:28 (UTC) |
20 |
Original Post by supersized: That would be the perfect fit - but although I am very bilingual - my written French is not at a high enough level and all the gallery jobs require excellent written French (I would be the one writing the press releases) If I ever move out of Quebec I'm all set!
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - December 7 - 13th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Dec 11 2008 03:50 (UTC) |
26 |
Julie: It is good to hear you so positive! Good going with the goals - everything goes better when you can get into a zone and keep going! Have fun at your reward! (I'm more boring - I just keep getting massages ever 5 lbs) FTF: have you tried getting/suggesting some candy you can't stand? I won't eat a mint if I was starving to death - maybe there is something others like but you don't. Sara: I envy you the job interviews! Hope they pan out. I'll keep my fingers crossed. I am in a weird spot in terms of employability - I am getting good at applying for exhibitions, grants etc. but I haven't got a day job, (and no obvious job skills) but now the kids are older I really should be earning something! Sigh! I'm spending the next 6 weeks trying to stay the same weight - neither gain nor lose, so I should get used to eating more/ find a balance in that time.What was weird wasn't that I ate at the party, but the psychological sabotage- "yeah I'm there!/ quick let's wreck it!" (and nobody should eat that nacho cheese salsa!) Lalie |
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| Motivation | how close are you? | Dec 10 2008 16:09 (UTC) |
4 |
I have 1/2 a lb to go to get to my magic number of 159 (to get into the healthy range for my height 5'7") I started my latest (and last) push at 185 lbs but was up around 200 last year when I was finishing grad school! Now comes the hard part - keeping it off!!!
Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - December 7 - 13th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Dec 09 2008 15:35 (UTC) |
33 |
weekly check in: Well, predictably, after my surprising weigh in last Saturday (158.8) I went to a tree trimming party and ate ... whatever I wanted! The bad thing is that I can't resist that cheap nacho cheese dip! Which is probably the worst stuff to eat on the planet. At least I did not polish off a whole jar while watching TV alone - I ate too much at a party, a few wholegrain tostitos at a time. The next day I did my best to reconstruct the But I was back on the wagon the next day (and it could have been much worse, really) Today I am back to 160.5, and have been trying to get at least 500 cal. worth of activities done per day. BUT the weird thing was: It felt really strange to have reached my goal weight, to move on into the scarier world of weight maintenance. I feel safer back at "I have a few lbs to lose". I keep saying the 158.8 was a fluke, just water loss, etc. That I had somehow not gotten there honestly. It is the maintenance that scares me silly, and I have to keep it up for the next 50 years! (one other sad/funny thing. Last night my husband (healthy, active and fit) was complaining that all his jeans were in the wash, so he pulled on one of my new, size 12 pants... and they were hanging off his bum! all lose around the thighs... boo hoo hooo. He is still skinnier than me. (he's 5 11 and 162 lbs)
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - November 30 - December 6th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Dec 06 2008 17:14 (UTC) |
8 |
Hey everybody! I just got back from my weight watcher's meeting and I have reached my goal! I was aiming for 159 lbs and I was 158.8 on their scale! Now I have to maintain that weight for the next 6 weeks and I get to be a lifetime member (don't pay if under goal weight) (But I had a little unnatural help: I sometimes do pharmaceutical studies to supplement my income and I did one on Friday which was testing a high blood pressure medice - so it basically acts like a giant diuretic!) I'll be interested to see what my weight is over the next few days when the short term water loss is regained. Thanks again for the getting to know each other exercise - it was fun! Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - November 30 - December 6th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Dec 03 2008 13:25 (UTC) |
38 |
Hi everyone, I'd like to introduce you to Meg: Meg is a special events coordinator who lives in outside St Louis, MO. The lucky girl lives in a rural area and so can watch the stars at night unlike us city dwellers. Despite being only 24 (25 in January!) she organizes Fairs and festival, and feel she is pretty good at organizing. She has two brothers, one older and one younger and has been dating her high school sweetheart for nearly 8 years. They moved in together a year ago and she secretly hopes he will get her a golden retriever puppy for Xmas -lets hope he reads this too... She loves the outdoors and all that goes with it; hiking, camping and swimming. But she also loves indoor stuff like shopping, board games and spending time with friends and her boyfriend. She likes to watch House and Bones on TV and is looking forward to the return of 24. Her favorite movie of all time is Dirty Dancing. Evenings when she is not playing board games with friends you can find her curled up with a John Grisham or a Jennifer Weiner novel. She is really good at sports cooking and lifting weights and did I mention organizing? But not sprinting, and she feels she is no good at standing up for herself. She supports Communities Healing Adolescent Depression and Suicide ( and you could find out more at http:/www.chadscoalition.org/ ) So, that's Meg in a nutshell - let's all be glad that one of her secret vices is the internet - so she can always makes time for her internet friends!
Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - November 30 - December 6th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Dec 01 2008 21:03 (UTC) |
53 |
Well, last week was not my best - I still keep trying too hard! Still find myself not eating enough (which is funny coming from a woman who eats too much usually!) and the weight does not want to come off. So since Saturday I have done my best to eat as close to 1200 cal. as possible, which seems like a lot because I had gotten used to less. I am concentrating on making sure I get plenty of exercise, mostly walking so far, but I have added in rowing (bought a second hand machine off craigslist last Wed.), swimming and I am going to go check out a weight lifting club at my local sports center this afternoon; they do competitive weight lifting and it is much less expensive than the gym. Since upping my calories I have lost 0.5 lb so it seems to be working. I just have to resign myself to slower but hopefully steadier weight loss for the next 6.5 lbs! Oh, the other fun thing last week: I bought new jeans! and I fit into a size 12 again!!! That was what I used to wear when I lost the weight before!! and not just one pair, but all the size 12 jeans I tried on fit (you know one could have just been a fluke!) The other good thing about the jeans is that compared with my older pants which were hanging off me, these are kinda tight. So it reminds me that I am not at my goal yet... and I can more clearly see the belly fat I still need to lose (nicely puffed up by the waist band of my new jeans!) I have started doing some research towards the getting to know you activity... will post again when I have to full scoop. Lalie |
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| Health & Support | .. | Nov 29 2008 20:09 (UTC) |
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Hi Chocoholic, well, at 110-112 lbs or so you have a BMO of just under 18. Which as I guess you know is a bit low. How we feel about our bodies is all relative! We tend to only see the changes. So while I am barely at a healthy weight I feel amazed because all my clothes are now too big, and I look so different. You, who could weight up to 155 lbs (fainted yet?) and still be a healthy weight, feel fat if you see a few lbs come on. Relax, You have a lot of leeway, a lot of room to try not counting your calories, before you get fat. But you have probably realized that it is not the actual numbers on the scale which is the problem, but the obsessing over it. Try just keeping a log of what you eat, and don't look up the calories till later, give yourself a chance to live without planning it too much. And maybe try to give yourself a higher weight limit - say at least 118 and stay at that weight for a while until you get used to looking at yourself at that weight. Good luck, Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - November 23 - 29th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Nov 28 2008 17:47 (UTC) |
5 |
Hi Sara, That sure sounds weird about your mother - doesn't sound like you did anything out of line, but her reaction makes me wonder if she has issues around your weight loss? Putting food away after eating rather than leaving it out to snack on is classic weight loss advice. Is this an obvious change to how you used to do it? I don't know enough about your relationship, but mother/daughter relationships are complicated -maybe she resents any sign of you putting yourself first? or she sees it as a critique of her wanting to keep grazing all evening... There is clearly more to it than what time you cleared the table! ************** I am having a lousy week - doing everything right(ish) but plateaued and even gained back the one lb I had lost! I have been fighting off a cold so that may have something to do with it, and sodium might be playing a part (never really pay much attention to it). I think I have to watch that the calories aren't creeping too low again... Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - November 23 - 29th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Nov 27 2008 19:35 (UTC) |
11 |
One oz. of pretzels... http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-pretze ls-hard-i19047 |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - November 23 - 29th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Nov 25 2008 18:20 (UTC) |
22 |
Sara, You are right about the willpower vs. life change. I still have that ahead of me. But I want to get the weight loss over with (cause it took so long before) and then I will play with the balance of eating to maintain my weight.I am making some interesting discoveries along the way which will be useful in the long term. Things like deciding if I really want to eat X and learning that having one bite is enough, I don't have to have the whole container... As for those last few pound; I want to get down under 159 lbs because that is the top threshold for a healthy weight for my height (5' 7") and I have to draw a line in the sand otherwise I will compromise and make allowances all the way back up to ??? lbs. So even though the difference will be subtle, I need to get those last few lbs off. I have done weights in the past, joined a gym last year, but I have not yet this time. I am quite strong already from general life/genetics and feel my exercise time is better spent on things like Pilates because I am NOT flexible at all and prone to getting weird pulled muscles because of it. As for the group size, I would not mind if it was a little bit smaller - it would give me the chance to "get to know" everyone better, but I am still new, so in time I will get used to everyone. Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - November 23 - 29th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Nov 24 2008 20:05 (UTC) |
33 |
Hi everyone, Thank you to Sara for the One Month message! I can't believe it has been a month already. Seems I just started this. In your message you asked me to say something about what has worked for me this past month, so here goes. I have lost over 15 lbs since I started logging things on CC, (21 lbs since starting to keep track) which is great, and I have 4 - 7 more to go depending on how I measure (naked in the morning or fully dressed at my Weight Watcher's meeting. But I don't know if I am a good example for anyone else, because I have been doing it a bit all or nothing (still) so I mostly get by through sheer force of will. I keep my goal present in my mind at each turn, and I have given myself a deadline (get to the goal weight before my pre-paid weight-Watcher's package is used up), so I can't even say, "oh what the hell, I'll catch up tomorrow or next week....' The challenge for me is not losing the weight... the hard part for me will start the day I get to my goal weight, and continue for the next 50 years....
HOMEWORK: Funny you should ask what I don't log, because I am starting to find my logging a bit pathological! I find I can't eat until I have logged the food and know there are no big surprises in my food choices. I will eventually have to wean myself off logging everything, but for now, I log just about everything. I sometimes skip stuff like vinegar, or lemon juice, or other flavorings since they are usually so tiny and add up to so little. I also sometimes don't log bites of other peoples foods if they are to complicated to calculate. I have found having a family around, eating fun stuff great, because I can have a polite bite (not a piggy bite) to taste something and not feel I am missing out completely, yet not feel obliged to order / make a whole piece myself. The kids are much happier now because my "little bites" are actually little now!! Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - November 16 - 22nd, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List available) | Nov 22 2008 18:14 (UTC) |
3 |
Felecia, Gotta watch out for the hidding food and eating it on the sly! eh? I have been known to do that. I guess it goes back to hidding stuff from Mom as a kid, but who are we fooling now? If it goes in, it's in and doesn't matter if anyone knows. It is terrible that out of control feeling - it's like being trapped in your mind yelling "hey stop!" while the hands andd the mouth keep going - and you can't even enjoy your treat, cause it is on the sly. Hope you find a way to snap out of it - sometimes I can and some times I can't. Recently I have taken to smelling the kids snacks- and it is enough (or sometimes better). Big, deep sniffs of popcorn and brownies, and eventually, the craving wears off.
Lalie |
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| Weight Loss | Switching from loosing to maintaining... | Nov 20 2008 20:46 (UTC) |
1 |
Ditto for the telling off stuff, but add to that the admission that I was doing the same thing for a while. I did not really intend to eat so little, but just kept cutting back more and more to keep the weight coming off, but finally it started going up despite the low cals. So I bit the bullet and started eating more (1200 - 1500 cal) and after a week, the weight started to go down again anyway! Not spectacularly but a 1 or 2 a week. So don't worry, commit a week to raising the cals. to a normal level and it should even out again. Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - November 16 - 22nd, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List available) | Nov 20 2008 16:26 (UTC) |
21 |
Hi all, things are going well this week. My joining weight watchers seems to be helping - trying to stay on track so i can get down to my target weight within the number of weeks I have prepaid! I was actually ahead of schedule the second week - having somehow lost 5.2 lbs, so let's see how I do this Saturday (probably not quite so dramatic) Other than that still walking everywhere I can think of to walk, and keeping the calories in line. As for planning the holidays... I am not a big Xmas celebrator, tend to not do too much, so it is not to much of a problem. (Now that I have convinced my mother in law not to shower us with chocolate!) Also, I am getting so close to my goal, and I am so keen to get in done without paying WW any more cash, that I don't think it will be a problem. (famous last words) Susan I also really enjoyed the description of the 8 K run, makes me feel like doing one too! Way to go! |
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| Health & Support | No periods | Nov 16 2008 18:52 (UTC) |
6 |
Original Post by carrie099: If you want curves on your shapeless bod, the only solution is to eat more - not less! Women normally have more healthy body fat than men and that's what rounds off the hips and fills out the breasts. You still have a lot of leeway between where you are now (BMI19) and your healthiest weight. So have a few healthy, rich snacks for the rest of us!!
Lalie |
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| Weight Loss | started ww | Nov 13 2008 22:51 (UTC) |
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Hi Honey, I have also joined weight watchers, today was my second week, so I can't tell you yet if it works!!! But I am using it for a very specific reason; not so much to lose weight ( I had already lost nearly 15 of the 30 lbs I needed to lose) but for the maintenance. I figured that I am such a cheapskate that there is no way I want to pay more money than necessary, so it has given me the oomph to lose the last 15 lbs as quick as possible and then do everything I can to stay below my goal weight and then I can become a life time member and never pay again! You see I am afraid of gaining weight back and I sure don't want to have to do this again (I lost 60 lbs after my last child was born and then gained 50 back) Let me know how you like it, by the way, how much weight are you hoping to lose?? Lalie |
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| Health & Support | Has anyone had success with Acai Berry? How about colon cleanses? | Nov 12 2008 18:34 (UTC) |
24 |
Watch out for some of the online sites to buy acai berry (like the sponsored link ones just to the rigth!!!) My friend tried one and it was a complete scam - once you send away for the free sample , you find out that they will keep charging you, and sending a new shipement each month UNLESS you call and cancel, but she was never able to get through to cancel! She had to cancel her credit card. Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumper - November 9 - 15th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Nov 09 2008 21:27 (UTC) |
52 |
Hi all, Well I seem to have survived my week of eating more. It was a bit scary, worrying how much I would gain before things leveled out and how long it would take till the weight started to go down again. But it was not too bad. After a week of a bit of up and down the down seems to be winning out. The other thing I did was increase my exercise, I have been taking long walks when ever I find and excuse... daughter needs to go to physio - great lets walk there! (45 min each way) What I have noticed is that I am hungrier now. Just before I stoped losing weight, I was thinking, gee, no matter how little I eat, I don't feel hungry. I now know that is a very, very bad sign!
As for wagon jumpers: I did really like Noni's look at the name. And yes, it is always easy to "fall off", but it takes a conscious effort to jump back on. Sadly it can sometimes take years to get back on. When I first lost a lot of weight, it was great - took a long time, yet was steady and fun. But when I got knocked off the wagon by a Xmas stocking full of good german chocolates. I was too discouraged to jump back on. Of the 60 lbs I lost I had gained back 10, then it was 15, then more, up to nearly 50 of those pound back at the worst point. And the 10 lbs only put me one pound over my max healthy weight! It was nothing yet it left me in an ever deepening ditch for about 6-7 years!!! So not only do I need to make a conscious effort to get a seat on the wagon, I need to plan for a seat belt and some guard rails so I don't fall off so easily. So after talking to an acquaintance, who coincidentally had lost weight and was keeping it off via weight watchers, I decided to join. Not so much for the actual weight losing, I'm pretty sure I can pull that off (she says....) but for the maintenance after, I love the idea of getting something for free rather than paying full price and I like the idea of working at keeping the weight low so I don't have to pay for meetings.... Of course I could just quit that too, but now that I have paid for it, I want my money's worth! I seem to be going on a bit, bye for now,
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| The Lounge | Nude Modeling for Art | Nov 05 2008 18:24 (UTC) |
48 |
Hi, I worked as a nude model for 3-4 years, until I had my first child and the scheduling grew too complicated. Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - November 2 - 8th, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Nov 04 2008 17:46 (UTC) |
32 |
Ha ha ha! all or nothing 'eh? I had been kinda keeping it a secret, since this group seems so sensible, but my caloric intake this past month has been way, way, way too low. Something like 800 - 900 cal on average. And the reason was that I had done this before. I had lost the weight, lost it sensibly, like a textbook, 1-2 lbs per week, went from 210 lbs to 150 lbs in about 10 months. I plotted it on a graph, it was beautiful. But then it was Xmas and a lot of chocolate was involved and I went right back up to 160 lbs and I guess I got depressed (all or nothing) and couldn't get it together to lose it, and over the next 7 years it has gone up and down, up to 200 but never lower than 170. So this time, I wanted to get it over with as fast as possible, do what ever it took. So I started by skipping supper, and watching what I ate the rest of the time. I have been eating very healthy, lots of sauteed greens, lean meats or fish, fruit, etc. but under 1000 cal, sometimes as low as 700. And it was working beautifully, I was losing a pound a day for a while. I went from 185 on Oct. 1st to 170 by Oct 27th, but then, (can you sensible people guess what happened next?) The weight started going up again! My body had gotten used to the low calories and adjusted accordingly. The funny thing is I knew that it could, would go wrong - but I thought I would crack and eat 12 tubs of ice cream! I somehow did not count on my body doing this, although I knew about it. This morning is a bit better, yesterday I had gone up to 173 and today I am back down to 172.5. I have been upping my calories for the last few day, 1600, and such. And eating a meal at supper time. So there is my confession for the week. Dieting kamikaze style.... But now I guess I have no choice but the slow road. At least it won't take 10 month this time, I do have a bit of a head start. I am just so sick of being overweight, I didn't want to drag it out over a year again. I wanted to get quickly down to the right weight and then concentrate on maintaining it... That's me for this week,
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - October 26 - November 1st, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Oct 29 2008 12:27 (UTC) |
27 |
Hi Sarah, don't get frustrated, it is the worst thing, cause then you feel bad (which makes you eat more), just catch yourself before you fall further off is all you can do at the moment! Move forward, never look back! Good luck with the next week! Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - October 26 - November 1st, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Oct 28 2008 19:41 (UTC) |
34 |
I am enjoying hearing about everyone's week. Looks like I joined up just in time as I seem to have gotten to the point where the weight loss slows down even though I am doing the same things and eating the same amount! Thanks for all the welcomes, feels good to find a group. What are these Phases people are talking about? can I look at a particular week to find out. I guess my next step is to start getting more exercise (right now I am just doing Pilates twice a week) and the first step to that is I have finally made a Physio appointement to find out and fix whatever I have done to my heel. So should start improving! Lalie |
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| Motivation | Wagon Jumpers - October 26 - November 1st, 2008 (Closed, Waiting List Available) | Oct 27 2008 15:07 (UTC) |
48 |
Hi, my name is Lalie and I have just joined the wagon jumpers. I am 5'7" and currently 170.5 lbs (down from 185 recently) I gained a lot of weight (210 lbs) when I was pregnant (3 kids) and lost it all after the 3rd, but alas, gained most of it back. It was so hard and so long to do the first time that I could not get up my courage to do it again, so I have been losing a bit and gaining a bit for the last 7 years. This is my latest try and I am doing great. But the hard part is yet to come - the last 10-15 lbs and then maintaining it for the next 40-50 years!!! Lalie |
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| Motivation | Snacking out of boredum! | Oct 27 2008 14:07 (UTC) |
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I have the same problem, eating has nothing to do with hunger! I have been doing very well this month by drinking caffeine free tisanes in the evening while watching TV. They have no calories and keep me hydrated (unlike regular tea which is a diuretic) I have also read that taking up knitting will keep your hands busy, but it depends on your job if you can get away with that. |
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| Motivation | What size is a 5'7? | Oct 24 2008 16:13 (UTC) |
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Right now I am 172 and my size 15 pants are nice and baggy! looks terrible but makes me happy - I'll buy new ones when I get a bit lower. Recently I have been fitting into size 14 stuff at around 180. I think when I weighed 155 I fit into size 11/12 stuff, but I have wide hips. |
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| Games & Challenges | 5 lbs by Halloween Challenge! *MONDAY WEIGH-INS* | Oct 23 2008 15:53 (UTC) |
7 |
I would like to hop on the band wagon... I'll see what I can do by Halloween. height: 5'7" starting weight: 177 lb current weight: 174lb goal weight by halloween: 169 lb |
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| puddinpop123 added misskathie as a friend | |
| sjeannem added misskathie as a friend | |
| misskathie added puddinpop123 as a friend | |
| misskathie added sjeannem as a friend | |
| New journal post Black Friday by clairelaine 10:32 |
