Posts by cbullock


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Forum Topic Date Replies
Vegetarian Opposite of Lacto-Vegetarians or Confused Vegan? Jul 05 2008
22:24 (UTC)
8

Catsy2,

If you occasionally eat meat, the appropriate term to describe your diet would be 'flexitarian'.  A flexitarian is someone who eats a mostly vegetarian diet, but occasionally eats meat, for any number of reasons (social, pragmatic, cultural, or nutritional).   

If you eat meat on a regular basis, but in small amounts, then I guess it would be most appropriate to still say that you are an omnivore, albeit one who doesn't eat the very excessive amounts of meat that most people seem to.  Traditionally, most cultures have had some meat in their diets, however, it has been a much smaller quantity than the amounts that most americans eat today, which has had such an adverse effect on the weight and general health of the american population.

Vegetarian Anyone loose energy going vegetarian? Jun 13 2008
11:37 (UTC)

I am a 50 year old vegan and I've got more energy now than I've ever had in my whole life.  It is not specifically because I'm vegan, but because I follow Dr. Fuhrman's dietary recommendations, which involve eating a very nutrient dense diet.  Regardless of whether you are vegetarian or not, as long as you are experiencing any sort of nutritional deficiency (and there are many possibilities), you will not be at your full potential.  Sorry you experienced this problem with your energy.  All I can really say is that I know for sure that meat or fish should not be necessary in order to have energy, so your situation is a bit puzzling to me.  If protein and fat are an issue, then sunflower seeds are a good thing to try, and might do the trick for you.    

 

Vegetarian Vegan with too many carbs! Jun 05 2008
19:15 (UTC)
1

Actually, 50% sounds kind of low to me, although exact percentages aren't really critical.  I think that the quality of the protein, the carbs, and the fat are actually much more significant than the relative percentages of each.  That is, not all carbs are created equal, and its much healthier to get your carbs from whole natural foods, than from candy (candies are carbs) or other empty calorie junk foods.  In other words, most of the calories in a food might technically be carbs, but we would say that they are 'empty calories' if they don't provide much in the way of vitamins, minerals, and phyto-nutrients (these are called 'micro-nutrients').  The same thing goes for protein and fat.  We should be eating protein and fat that is of a high quality, i.e. dense in all the important micro-nutrients that are essential to our health.

 

Vegetarian Peanuts are Meat. Jun 02 2008
11:37 (UTC)
14

I think what this really speaks to is the disconnect that people have with their food and where it comes from.  A lot of people don't want to think about the fact that meat is something that comes from the slaughter of animals while they are in the midst of eating the stuff.  That is why we have names like hamburger instead of just calling it dead cow.  My stepmother actually once insisted that hamburger wasn't meat and that there was no reason why I shouldn't eat it (I was a vegetarian at the time).

 

Vegetarian cheap vegan snacke Jun 01 2008
14:30 (UTC)
6

I don't see how anyone can get buy on $20 a week these days, considering how prices  have been skyrocketing. 

That said, the cheapest way to go with nuts/seeds is to buy sunflower seeds.  I buy organic raw unsalted sunflower seeds in bulk for $2.19 a pound.  This is way cheaper than any of the other nuts I might buy.  A couple ounces of sunflower seeds is really a lot, and only costs me about 27 cents.  Thats 27 cents for about 328 calories worth of food.  Not bad!  My doctor tells me that it is a great food to eat for muscle recovery after a workout.

As far as fruit goes, I would go with some fresh ones.  As we get a little further into the summer, and the price of watermelon drops, it will become much more economical than any of the other fresh fruits.  I love watermelon and will be eating tons of it.  

Truthfully, I don't officially 'snack' between meals.  Sometimes I might munch on some raw veggies (love those cherry tomatoes) while I'm making a salad, but I don't have any planned snacks.  Instead I just stick to two to three meals a day, with no snacking.  Usually its just lunch and dinner, and both meals are rather large and satisfying.  On mornings that I go to swim practice, I have been eating a couple ounces of sunflower seeds afterwards, which I guess you could call my breakfast. 

 

Vegetarian Grains May 25 2008
16:46 (UTC)
Original Post by muttlover:

Other than oats, whole wheat bread, and the occasional pearled barley, I have no grains in my diet.

What grains do you eat, and how do you eat them? Where do you buy them? Are they cheap? I keep hearing how people buy grains "in bulk" and it is dirt cheap, but I don't know where to go or what price is a "good price."

Any input would be appreciated, I'd love to hear from you guys!

Oats, whole wheat bread, and pearled barley sounds like a ton of grains to me.  I'm a vegan and rarely eat any grains at all.  Occasionally I might have some brown rice, but mostly I prefer the more nutrient dense colorful starchy vegetables over the colorless grains.  When I was eating a more grain based diet I was rather pale, but now that my diet is more colorful, so am I!   

Foods Apples Addiction...anyone? May 11 2008
13:57 (UTC)
1

I too have an apple addiction, but I'm not a bit worried about it!  Usually, I prefer pink lady's, the crisper the better.  It is really by far the crispest apple I've ever had (in case the person who brought up crispness might be interested).  Of course, this does vary some.

Lately, I got a hold of some very flavorful tiny little galas, which have been quite excellent, even though normally not my favorite.

It truly amazes me how much one variety of apple can vary, and can be so wonderful if you get the right batch of it, at just the right time.  Those apples can truly have an exquisite taste!

The only thing that has really slowed down my apple addiction has been the fact that it is now strawberry season, so I'm now eating strawberries like they are going out of style!  Can't get enough of them.  Yummy!

 

Vegetarian yogurt May 11 2008
13:48 (UTC)
4
Original Post by meyoueveryoneweknow:

i want to be vegan, but my greatest challenge is healthy foods versus animal-friendly ones. i know yogurt is very good for you, and although i enjoy the soy versions, i feel like they are too processed. what's your take on it?


Soy yogurt is full of sweeteners, and I consider it junk food.  Furthermore, I do not consider yogurt of any kind to be a healthy food.  The bacteria found in yogurt can be obtained from other sources.  It is particularly important when people have been subjected to anti-biotics, which depletes or upsets the natural balance of flora in your gut.  As you may know, anti-biotics tend to be over-prescribed in our culture.  Also, if you've under-gone surgery, you have surely been subjected to anti-biotics.  People who consume dairy products are inadvertantly exposed to anti-biotics that end up in the milk from cows that have been treated with anti-biotics.  Therefore, it makes sense that if you consume dairy products, the yogurt would actually be less harmful to you than the milk because it contains beneficial enzymes that will protect against the antibiotics that may be present in the product.  Frankly, I think you are better off avoiding the anti-biotics all together!  There are many reasons not to eat dairy products, but I will not go into them here.  Suffice it to say, that I am vegan, and furthermore do not consider dairy products to be healthy foods.

If you have been subjected to anti-biotics, you can purchase a vegan 'pro-biotic' which contains beneficial enzymes that restore the natural flora in your gut.  One that I have used is Dr. Fuhrman's Favorite Flora, which can be purchased from his website.  

 

Vegetarian Veggies and Fruits May 04 2008
14:33 (UTC)
Original Post by gi-jane:

Come on.... To be healthy, amazing & natural, sensible vegans do not exist on fruit, veg and peanut butter. 

Being a healthy, sensible vegan myself, I have to agree with you.  Although I eat tons of vegetables and fruit, and fully recognize their importance, I also include beans, and nuts and seeds in my diet.  These foods provide protein as well as healthy fats.  Although a high percentage of the calories found in leafy greens are from protein, they are so low in calories, that you won't be able to eat enough of them to get your protein that way (unless you are a gorilla with jaws that can handle eating 15 pounds of greens every day).  In order to get all the nutrients you need, you do need to consume some of the healthier higher calorie foods, such as beans, nuts, and seeds.   If a person needs to lose weight, having a small amount of healthy fats from nuts and seeds can actually help them lose weight faster.  Ironically, a person needs a certain minimum of calories from fat in order to facilitate the weight loss process.  I know a lot of people who have experienced stalls in their weight loss as a result of trying to cut all the fat out of their diet, and then the weight loss suddenly resumes when they add some fat back in.  Conversely, if a person needs to maintain or gain weight, then adding larger amounts of the beans, nuts, and seeds, along with some starchy veggies, and/or grains, will give them the additional calories they need.

As far as the peanut butter goes, it is definitely not a health food.  It is made from roasted peanuts, which contain acrylamides as a result of the roasting process.  Another widespread concern with regard to peanuts has to do with peanut mold (I forget what the mold is called), which is invisible but toxic.  In general, one should look for nut butters which you can get raw and unsalted, such as cashew or almond butter.  The unroasted nuts do not contain acrylamides.

 

Vegetarian Veggies and Fruits May 02 2008
22:45 (UTC)
3
Original Post by svkas09:

Out of curiousity, if I was to know someone who decided to go onto an all veggie and fruit diet (meaning that is ALL they ate, well they said and peanut butter) what would I tell them...is it actually bad for them, or not? Because I have no idea on this, I can't really give them any advice so some info would be great! Thanks everyone :)

Personally, you might not want to take her too literally.  What people say and what they do are often not the same.  Fruits and vegetables 'except for peanut butter' sounds a bit suspicious and strange.  She is probably eating other things besides the peanut butter that weren't mentioned, like maybe bread, for example (pb sandwich).  Sometimes the way a person thinks of their diet and characterizes it doesn't quite reflect reality.  Sort of like how you hear people complain that they are overweight and can't imagine why because they 'hardly eat a thing'.   Anyway, I'd observe closer rather than take this at face value.

Vegetarian Sea salt and dextrose? Apr 25 2008
11:23 (UTC)
3
Original Post by shiremancer:

Here's an interesting problem or pain in the butt. I was reading the label of sea salt because I thought something was up with it and I found dextrose in it. Dextrose goes through the evil bone char processing to "cleanse" the sugar of its unholiness...or something like that. *grin* I don't mind giving up salt, I can do that, no problem...it's bad for me anyway. BUT as I also checked my Silk Soy Milk carton I noticed that there's sea salt in there too. WTF? So should I give up soy milk because I really don't like the idea of something that is supposed to be vegan having dextrose in the sea salt which is in my milk. *sigh*

I use the plain, unsweetened edensoy.  It has no added salt.  The only ingredients are osmosis purified water, and organic soybeans.  It only has 5 mg of sodium per cup, whereas a cup of silk soymilk has around 100 mg if I remember correctly.

Generally, I try to get pure stuff that isn't candy coated.  The less ingredients the better.  If I want to sweeten something that has soymilk in it (like maybe a smoothie), I'll do it myself by adding something naturally sweet like berries or other fresh fruit, or dates (which are a nice sweet sugar replacement).

Claudia 

Fitness no energy to work out- what should I do? Apr 20 2008
16:38 (UTC)
3
Original Post by safina1:

It is a problem. At 158 pounds and 5'3", I think I am fine with 1500 cals a day and and an hour workout.. but I don't have energy to workout. Could that be because I have been under some stress lately? or is it the cals?

I hope I can get some ideas...

I don't know what the exact amount of calories is that would be right for your, however, when it comes to having energy its about more than simply the number of calories.  You need to make sure you are getting the most nutritional bang for the caloric buck, so to speak.  In other words, if you make sure that you are getting excellent nutrition, and avoiding all empty calorie junk, this will give you greater energy to fuel your activities, and actually make you feel more like you want to move around and exercise.  If your diet is deficient in nutrients you will not have energy no matter how many calories you are eating.

Foods Luna bars vs. real food Apr 20 2008
16:00 (UTC)
1
Original Post by sarah_mc21:

Can someone please tell me what is the benefit of eating something like a Luna bar versus eating real food such as fruit or vegetables as a snack?

I do not see any real benefit, and in fact would say that the Luna Bars are detrimental to your health.  They contain isolated soy protein, which is a highly processed, and un-naturally concentrated form of protein.  Isolated Soy Protein has been linked with high levels if IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor 1), which in turn has been linked to breast cancer.  I would stay away from anything containing this highly processed soy product.

If you want the convenience of a bar, a better choice would be Lara bars, which contain only raw nuts and dried fruit, and absolutely no other additives.  In other words, Lara bars are real food, although more calorie dense than fresh fruits and vegetables.  The benefit is that they contain some 'healthy fats' due to the raw nuts.  I like to have one with a cup of hot chamomile tea after a swim workout.  This makes a nice little breakfast.  Normally I don't eat breakfast at all (I just do lunch and dinner), but I get hungry earlier in the day when I swim, so I have this little breakfast.  The Cinnamon Roll one, really does taste like the flavor of a cinnamon roll, but without all the bread.  Its my favorite one, and goes really well with the tea (actually its 'Calm' tea from 'Tazo', which is mostly chamomile). 

Vegetarian Is it a good idea to be vegetarian while pregnant? Apr 15 2008
11:19 (UTC)
1

Hello,

I'd like to suggest that you get a copy of 'Disease-proof Your Child: Feeding Kids Right', by Dr. Joel Fuhrman.  This book promotes a plant-based diet for the optimal health of you and your child.  It also goes into what the research says about the important connection between childhood diet, and the chronic diseases that occur in adulthood.

The bottom line is that what you eat during (and even years prior to) pregnancy will have an effect on the baby, and a healthy vegan diet can provide ideal nutrition.

 

Vegetarian Toooo Many Veggies!!! Apr 15 2008
02:31 (UTC)
10
Original Post by gi-jane:

Eat over a pound of anything and you're going to feel pretty sick.  My favourite remedy for overeating is a slice of lemon steeped in a tall glass of hot water.  Drink a couple of those before you go to bed and you'll dump the dump to end all dumps in the morning!

Nah, I eat around a couple of pounds of veggies a day with no problems (and I am pretty small).  Some veggies just weigh a lot more than others.  A single tomato could weigh a half a pound all by itself.  

Vegetarian Toooo Many Veggies!!! Apr 14 2008
13:13 (UTC)
15
Original Post by cypherous:

Hey Guys

 

So im studying for exams...and pulling alot of late night cram sessions. So I get the idea to have some mixed, raw veggies as a snack (instead of chips). I ended up eating ALOT of carrots and celery, alongside with other mixed veggies n dip.

 

But now my stomach feels GROSS!! Like really knotted, just wanted to know if there was any reason 4 this? Was I not supposed to eat that much Veggies (I ate an entire bag of baby carrots...almost 1Lb, and some red peppers/celery/cucumbers, etc)

 

Personally, im sure its healthy.., but maybe next time...I'll grab the pringles Tongue out

It is perfectly healthy to eat that much vegetables, however, if you are not used to consuming that quantity of fiber it can upset your stomach.  If your body hasn't been used to very much fiber it might be something you have to work up to gradually.

Vegetarian vegan lunch ideas? Apr 13 2008
15:16 (UTC)
3
Original Post by meyoueveryoneweknow:

for those who are vegan and have to take lunch to school/work: any ideas? i'm just transitioning back to vegan and looking for easy/yummy things to take :D

I usually pressure cook a big pot of black bean soup on the weekend so that I can heat it up and put it in a thermos to take to work with me during the week, along with a small salad and some fruit.  Also, on some nights I'll make an enormous salad with tons of veggies and chickpeas on top, and then take that to work with me in the morning, along with some fresh fruit.  I do that on mornings where I don't have time to heat up the soup and thermoses, and make the salads.  I do all the prep for both myself and my husband.

Vegetarian Do you know how to cook Tofu ????? Apr 13 2008
15:05 (UTC)
5

I had tofu last night.  Its a recipe called 'Tofu Chard Pot', which I adapted from the 'Tofu Spinach Pot' recipe in Dr. Fuhrman's 'Eat to Live' book.

Its pretty simple.  Heat up 1/2 cup water, 2 TBSP lemon juice, 1/8 tsp each of cayenne and hing (or you can used onion powder), and 1/2 tsp of powdered (low-sodium) vegetable broth.   Add 1 1/2 pounds of fresh chopped tomatoes, 1 bunch of chopped red chard (or other chard), and 1 pound of tofu chopped into small cubes.  Cook on a medium or medium low heat until done to your satisfaction.

The tomato/lemon/broth combo has great flavor and really goes nicely with the greens and tofu.  We have this once a week, and like that it is simple and water-based, and doesn't involve any frying in oil.  The tofu that we use is a firm one that is made fresh locally in the town we live in.  It stays wonderfully fresh tasting in this recipe.

Claudia

 

Vegetarian New to this and need some input please Apr 06 2008
15:28 (UTC)

I concur with the beans and nuts.  Furthermore, there is a way that you can eat and enjoy the hard fruits such as apples and pears, despite your dental issues.  I would get one of those apple corer/slicer gizmos.  They are very hand to have, and I got a lot of use out of mine after I got my wisdom teeth pulled.  I couldn't bite into an apple afterwards for awhile, however, once the apple is split up into smaller pieces, it is easy to bite into and chew.  At first I would actually heat up the pieces in the microwave, which made them soft and sweet, and then as I healed more I was able to eat the hard pieces.  

Vegetarian Are you REALLY vegetarian? Apr 05 2008
14:43 (UTC)
25
Original Post by bee_roach:

Let's try this definition:

Vegetarianism is the practice of a diet that excludes all animal flesh, including poultrygamefish, shellfish or crustacea, and slaughter by-products.

I don't think you can simply define vegetarians as "people that don't eat meat". Obviously, bones, hooves, and eyeballs aren't "flesh" in your definition (muscle and fat) but they are a result of the slaughter of an animal. Gelatin, glycerin, leather, etc... are all products of the meat and dairy industries. After an animal is slaughtered, all it's leftover parts are sent to rendering plants. From here we get the gelatin for Jello and marshmallows, and glycerin and other leftovers can go into cosmetics, lotions, soaps, and toothpastes.

I concur with the straightforward, correct, and widely accepted explanation that you have provided.  Good job.  BTW, let there be no doubt that when a manufacturer labels a product such as a vitamin as 'suitable for vegetarians' they understand full well that animal by-products resulting from slaughter (such as the gelatin capsules) can not be included as ingredients.  Otherwise, they are opening themselves up to lawsuits.  

In order for a product to be labeled as 'vegan' or 'suitable for vegans', it cannot contain any animal products, even if the products are not the result of animal slaughter.  This means that vegan products cannot contain dairy, but vegetarian ones can.

 

 

Foods i don't get iceberg lettuce Apr 05 2008
14:30 (UTC)
1
Original Post by sweetblea:

What keeps the iceberg lettuce growers in business? Why do people still eat this stuff? There are so many options for greens now that not only are soo much more nutritious they actually taste better.

Even more baffling to me is that it is still served in restaurants. To me this stuff holds no appeal at all. It's like crunchy water.

 

Contrary to popular belief, Iceberg lettuce, although not quite as nutritious as romaine, is actually a very nutritious food.  In fact, it is more nutritious than many of the foods that people typically include in their diet:

Iceberg Lettuce: A Lesson in Nutrient Density

Vegetarian Anyone got a recipe for vegan hard cheese???? Apr 04 2008
12:06 (UTC)
2
Original Post by veganmamma:

Anyone??

I use Vegan Gourmet Mozzarella, that I buy in the store.  It is excellent, and I guess I'm not really interested in trying to make cheese myself.  There is a book called the un-cheese cookbook, but frankly I didn't care for the recipes and prefer to just buy the vegan gourmet stuff.

 

Vegetarian Vegan but so many Carbs!!! Mar 24 2008
18:06 (UTC)
11
Original Post by jerichocheyenne:

So I'm a vegan and find myself on the food analysis with a butt load of carbs.  I know pretty much everything has carbs.  Do you think a lot of carbs will slow down my losing weight process?  Also how healthy do you think the vegan frozen food section is? I eat the Amy's line of food and everything is organic? I'm sure fresh is always healthier but when I'm so beat at nite and already cooked my son and hubby food I don't want to prepare another meal.  Do you think it's ok? I don't eat it every meal. Usually just dinner.

I'm 4'11" and 90 pounds, and my diet is full of carbs, and this is not an issue.  Personally, I don't touch the Amy's line of frozen foods because they are full of sodium, and you just won't get enough fresh veggies and fruits if you eat that way.  If you want to lose weight, it is important to focus on eating large volumes of food in the form of vegetables and fruit, because they are relatively low in calories and provide the kind of volume that it takes to feel full without over-eating on calories.

New Members [♥] Is this a reasonable goal? Mar 24 2008
18:00 (UTC)
3
Original Post by ohhhhhhh:

Heyyyyyyyyy... Here are my stats :)

A: 15

H: 5'3

CW: 104

HW: 107

LW: 93

1GW: 100

2GW: 95

GW: 90

I want to achieve this within about 2-3 months (for swimsuit season)

Is this reasonable.. if I do it COMPLETELY healthily?

With lots of exerise?

Give me some tips :)

Mucho thanks ♥

I believe that 107 is an ideal weight for your height.  According to my doctor, on average, women should weigh 95 pounds for the first 5 feet of height, and 4 pounds for each additional inch.  My doctor is a nationally recognized expert on nutrition and weight control, and is also a former world class athlete.  He would tell you exercise, but not for the purpose of losing weight.  It would be for the purpose of optimizing your health.

Vegetarian Worse hangovers since starting eating vegan...happen to you too??? Mar 22 2008
13:15 (UTC)
1

A healthy body rejects substances that are noxious to it.

Vegetarian What did YOU eat today? (veg*n style) Mar 19 2008
18:05 (UTC)
176

Breakfast: Lara Bar (Cashew Cookie) with hot chamomile tea

Lunch: Enormous Salad (spring mix, shredded carrots, celery, green bell pepper, mini sweet peppers, cauliflower, garbanzo beans) w/ Green Velvet dressing (home-made), 1 orange, 2 apples (1 fuji and 1 pink lady)

Dinner: Salad (romaine hearts w/walnuts and raspberry vinagrette), 2 bowls of blended greens soup, carob smoothie (1/4 cup pomegranate juice, 1/4 cup soymilk, 2.5 ounces baby spinach, 1/2 TBSP ground flax, 1 TBSP Carob powder, 1/2 banana, 5 ounces frozen blueberries), and an apple

I don't have any need for snacks.  In fact, on most days I don't eat breakfast.  Its only on days that I go to a morning swim practice that I have the Lara bar afterwards, because the swimming causes me to get hungry earlier than usual.  Otherwise, I'm fine waiting until lunchtime to eat my first meal.  I enjoy having large satisfying meals, and waiting until I am actually hungry to eat them.

Vegetarian are there any vegan supplements? Mar 19 2008
17:45 (UTC)
1

According to Dr. Fuhrman, sunflower seeds are great for muscle recovery.  He has referred to them as his 'preferred food' for muscle building.

I would recommend getting the ones that are raw and unsalted (much healthier that way).

BTW, in case you didn't know, besides being a family practice doctor with an expertise in nutrition, Dr. Fuhrman is also a former world class athlete (pairs figure skating), so he does know a thing or two about exercise!

Other than that, I don't know what to tell you about supplements.

 

Foods Confused!! is peanut butter good or bad for you?? Mar 15 2008
21:09 (UTC)
2
Original Post by jess36:

at the natural food store i go to sometimes the lady said that because peanuts are fungal, peanut butter isnt as healthy as almond butter, so if you like almonds maybe try that? i personally love peanut butter and wasnt actually swayed by her advice haha :D

The woman at the natural food store was probably referring to aflatoxin which is a mold found on peanuts which is very toxic, and which you cannot see.  Afltatoxin has been used to induce liver cancer in rats.  Governments recognize aflatoxin as very dangerous and regulate how much of it can be present in foods.  If you want to limit your own exposure, peanuts are one of the main foods to avoid.  

The other bad thing about peanut butter is that the peanuts are roasted, causing acrylamides to form, which are carcinogenic.   

Raw Almond butter would definitely be much safer than peanut butter.

Fitness How do you build a nice back? Mar 15 2008
13:16 (UTC)
5
Original Post by nenewa:

Now I want to focus on my back and make it a beautiful one. I know how to work my lower back muscles and I am trying to get that dip in the middle of my lower back, by doing upper torso raises on that machine where you raise up by your waist. I don't know the name but I hope you can understand. You can also do side bends on this machine. My question is how to I work the other parts of my back. I've tried doing rows but I never feel anything to know if I'm doing it right. Can anyone recommend a good back exercise where you truly feel the burn and one that will give definition in the back?

I would recommend swimming.  Its a great upper body workout and has made my back stronger than its ever been.  All that pulling in the water is really a lot of work for the back!

 

Vegetarian Vent... Mar 04 2008
00:26 (UTC)
9
Original Post by smj0563:

Thanks!  I knew he was incorrect but I didn't feel up to the challenge of going against an MD.  And you're right, no one would have taken me seriously anyway... once again I would just be the crazy tree-hugging vegetarian.  It is frustrating that he is propogating this school of thought, but what can I expect since I live in Texas..!!

 Such a shame that people view doctors as being god-like know-it-alls.  Meanwhile, most medical schools don't even require any courses in nutrition, and most doctors really don't know much about it.  

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