| Forum | Topic | Date | Replies |
| Fitness | buring? | Jan 29 2008 21:45 (UTC) |
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Thanks to carmenxox and agana, this thread is no longer providing meaningful feedback to the OP. Sorry, missmeliss14, I'll follow up with them. Meantime, I hope you got the info you needed. THanks, productive posters. |
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| Health & Support | feeling fainty | Jan 17 2008 21:34 (UTC) |
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Oh man... I'm the same way!! I've hit the floor many mornings. So I wear a helmet to bed. Just kiddin' Other posters also mentioned the anemia/hypoglycemia thing, which I've also been through. Get your bloodwork done regularly. I have quite low blood pressure (runs in the family). One trick is to get up slowly.. just sit up for a second, put your feet on the floor, then stand up without taking a great big breath, just gently make sure your standing up before you start walking anywhere. If you collapse, hopefully you'll fall back on the bed. If hypoglycemia's an issue, I always try to eat a snack near bedtime so I'm not famished in the a.m. I have a high-glycemic whole-food hit first thing (like juice or cereal) before going anywhere, chased with something more complex (fat/fibre/protein). I also keep "Glucose Tabs" around ... everywhere - in my purse, bedside table, etc. They're cheap, compact, low-cal, and just tweak the old blood-sugar asap. I do mean -- in seconds. Feel free to PM me about hypoglycemia and exercise -- it can be an issue sometimes. I was so relieved to see all the people with this same problem! We're the 'fainty gals'.. haha.. |
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| Fitness | Squuaaaats! | Jan 13 2008 22:11 (UTC) |
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Hi! I'm in the same boat -- the sumo stance works best for me. I also have dodgy knees from time to time, and they don't give me trouble in that wide stance. When I did squats regularly for a year or so, I found I could experiment with more alternatives (hack squats, overhead squats, close-stance, etc.) and that was fun and hit more muscle groups. Good for you for hitting the metal, girl!! :oD Tara |
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| Health & Support | Polar Heart Rate Monitor Watch | Jan 13 2008 04:46 (UTC) |
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Yesyesyes!! AWESOME gadget -- not spamming here -- it really helped me a lot. My hubby's is better -- it has a feature that keeps his HR from infecting MY HRM... mine is the old style. Every time we run together, my monitor adds his HR to mine .. argh!! But yes, I love my watch .. a lot! Keeps me in the 'zone'.. haha.. |
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| Health & Support | my PE teacher is putting us on diets | Jan 13 2008 04:36 (UTC) |
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Woah, Nellie !! To record your diet to understand its merits and drawbacks is one thing, but you are totally spot on in your OP that teens need extra cal's to build bones and muscles, the last thing you need is more pressure to make you self-conscious. You need to tell your principal and your parents about your PE teacher - sounds totally unethical to me. If this happened at my son's school there would be disciplinary action against that teacher. Plus, your teacher sounds right out to lunch with nutrition -- peanut butter is an excellent food choice, full of mono-unsaturated fat you need to grow. '15' is not a healthy BMI. This teacher is totally out of line, probably totally untrained in nutrition science, and possibly crackers. If you're up to the challenge, I'd protest this little operation. Get your parents on board, but you're old enough to take this on yourself, or with your friends, which can be a learning experience in itself. Good luck! |
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| Health & Support | Am I wearing myself out? | Jan 13 2008 04:30 (UTC) |
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Muttlover: I concur.. just adding -- make sure you get enough protein to build up your muscle. Get your iron levels checked, just for good measure. I was severely anemic for years and didn't realize. The iron kicked my butt! Same deal with my sister. Be kind to yourself. It's only while you're resting that your body builds and repairs tissue.
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| Health & Support | 47- went off BCP 1 1/2 months ago and keep gaining weight | Jan 13 2008 04:27 (UTC) |
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k -- what's a 'BCP' ? Sounds like you're on the right track.. how long have you been at it? It must be pretty frustrating, being in a holding pattern like that! I had to take a few cracks at this stuff before my weight budged at all.. then it all fell off at once. It didn't seem to follow a predictable path. Are you far from your weight loss goal? the last few pounds cling with a vengeance. Are you possibly feeling bloated from eating more fibre, or some other reason? Any medical history that might be interfering? Why do you think the grading is lower than you'd expect? Am I asking too many questions? haha.. |
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| Pregnancy & Parenting | Pregnant, fat, and hungry! | Jan 13 2008 04:22 (UTC) |
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| Hear, hear! (sh.. doctors don't always know much about nutrition.. shh).. I think your doctor's just worried about your health and the risks stated above, but at 8 months it's kinda late to be curbing your eating habits!!! that baby's hungry! it'll all fall off when you have a few months to recover. I wish you well with your delivery. Cheers! | |||
| Health & Support | Recovered, but.. Did my bones get smaller? | Jan 13 2008 04:18 (UTC) |
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Yes, you could experience osteoporosis from severe undereating, if not now, then later in your life. The good news is that you can do something about it Please get a doctor's advice about getting onto a pro-active, bone-building diet and exercise plan asap! It'll benefit you later in your life, even if you aren't experiencing severe bone loss now. If you can manage to get a bone-density test, then that would be a good benchmark to know for later. While you're young (and this applies to every young woman, not just recovering anorexics) you need extra calcium, vitamin D and magnesium -- maybe even a supplement. Weight-bearing exercise is crucial to build a stronger skeleton. If you're a smoker - quit. If you drink, keep it moderate. Here are a couple of articles I found for you: What people with Anorexia Nervosa Need to Know about Osteoporosis Good luck! |
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| Weight Loss | seen this question before? | Jan 13 2008 03:42 (UTC) |
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Hello, hello.. I'm a convert from the much more rough-and-tumble Oxygen fitness forum where things quickly degenerate into name-calling and other annoying behaviour. There isn't anyone around there to help people get the info they need, or to ask people to 'play nice'. I was so glad to find the calmer, saner world of Calorie-Count and I was honoured to be asked to be a volunteer moderator. I, too, was curious when I started using this site because everyone seemed so nice, and the moderators were always nearby, offering help or redirecting people to useful information. I figured that people were working hard behind the scenes to keep at bay the inevitable onslaught of weirdness that usually pervades forums, and that turned out to be true. Because it's so constructive, this site has attracted many smart, fun, helpful people. Glad you stopped by. I just wanted you to know that the mods aren't steering people's discussions or editing posts without consultation, and they try to be as judicious as possible. People post some whacky stuff sometimes, which is totally fine. If members seem to be encouraging disordered eating, or are verbally abusing each other, mods might intervene, but this happens very, very rarely. |
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| Health & Support | let me get this straight | Jan 08 2008 22:49 (UTC) |
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Yes, that's funny about Magic School Bus, haha.. While it's theoretically true that a pound = 3500 cals, our bodies defy logic with dieting and exercise for many reasons. I think if you aim for a deficit of no more than 500 cal's if you're trying to lose, and a surplus of about 500 cal's if you're gaining, you can tweak your intake based on results. Don't forget "Maintenance" means lying on a divan being fed peeled grapes by an attendant... If you move around at all, you'll burn more cal's than that. If you eat around your maintenance (1400) and do some exercise, you may be undereating by too much to allow full recovery and build strength and lean mass. Leftover calories that aren't needed for movement, tissue repair, or growth, etc, are stored as fat, but if you do aerobic exercise, your body will use your extra calories for fuel. If you strength train, some of your calories will be used as fuel and some will be used to build increased muscle and bone mass (note: while you're resting or sleeping). The calories will continue to be burned well into the next day. Building lean mass requires you to eat a little over maintenance in order to provide your body with something to build muscles out of. You can still do this while losing weight by alternating strength-training days (or weeks) with periods of more high-intensity cardio or circuit trainng, which will allow you to 'zig-zag' your way to a leaner, stronger body. Also, the more muscle mass you have, the more calories you can burn lying on that divan being fed peeled grapes, haha.. so you can increase the 'Maintenance' calories accordingly. note -- Most strength trainers (including me) believe that it's important to consume a small snack of lean protein and a quick-digesting source of med-high-glycemic carbs directly after strength training to see the best results. Within 30-45 minutes or so. |
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| Weight Loss | am i burning too many? | Jan 08 2008 21:51 (UTC) |
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I agree with everyone. It would be pretty much impossible to fit enough micro- and macro-nutrients into a calorie load that small. Like lozibeth said -- creating a calorie deficit is one thing, but it should not exceed 500-1000 cal's. That means that if you have a gruelling day (say you're a triathlete, or a mountain climber etc), you might burn upwards of 3000 calories, then you need a LOT more calories to compensate for your energy expenditure so it won't dip below your needs and leave you gasping on the asphalt. If you undereat, your body will burn valuable muscle for fuel -- muscle you need not only to move you around for the next 80 years, but muscle that burns calories. If you want to be a lean, mean, calorie-burning machine, get thee to thy gym!! Fit, strong, athletic people eat lots of healthy food: about 15-22 calories per pound of bodyweight per day from lean protein, fibre-rich fruits, veggies, whole grains, and unsaturated fat. You need tons of vitamins and minerals, esp. calcium, to support your body while you're dieting, especially if you're still growing -- which is into your early 20's. You can be lean and eat like a champion -- when great food fuels an active lifestyle, the results are dazzling!! Read up on some of the amazing nutrition info here on C-C!! |
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| Fitness | Sit ups | Jan 07 2008 17:16 (UTC) |
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Oh dear -- restricting the air flow around your skin is a baaaddddd idea -- your body releases toxins (but definitely not fat) through your skin, and trapping them in an environment where water cannot evaporate could cause them to build up and create skin problems. Sweating a lot by wrapping yourself in plastic will never 'trap fat calls' or otherwise help you spot reduce. Neither will doing 100's of reps of an exercise like sit-ups, leg lifts, or any motion that is so easy your muscles can do it for ages without being depleted. Spot reducing is simply not possible. Here's an article explaining why. Stick to a balanced diet slightly below your metabolic rate and get a minimum of 30 min of exercise per day, including strength-building exercises in rep ranges under 25. Good luck! |
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| Health & Support | Question about daily intakes | Jan 03 2008 20:11 (UTC) |
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Apologies to Laurieellen for the sidebar convo -- did you get your question answered? Hi mikelane -- yes, I understand what you're saying -- I used to say the same things and quoted the same WHO stats for years. As a wannabe vegetarian myself, I've followed with interest the success of vegetarian Olympic atheletes and world-class bodybuilders. But aside from your valid point about them needing more cal's all around than you or me, I think high-performance endurance athletes and strength athletes have completely different dietary needs from each other. Fueling with sport-specific ratios of fats/proteins/carbs for different activities is a whole science in itself. Meantime, back to the ordinary Joe/Jane fitness buff... the question of how much protein we need is so hotly contested all over the media, I wouldn't say any one source can give the definitive view. I can say that all the bodybuilders I read (I do spend a lot of time in the weight room, so I'm interested in their viewpoint) depend on extra protein to build more mass. This belief may not be accepted outside the strength-training world, but it is so universally accepted within it, I decided to try it for myself with unquestionably positive results. Still -- everyone's body is different, and I think you need to experiment and figure out what works for you. My experience is this: I followed the WHO guidelines nearly all my life -- eating mostly vegetarian, grain- and plant-based diet -- but I was deteriorating into hypoglycemia and anemia and heading straight for diabetes. I had a nutritionist hand me a diet I thought was insane -- 6 servings of protein a day!! But I recovered within a month. The results were dramatic. As I regained my strength, I started weight training. The end result is I feel at 40 better than I ever did in my 20's. What's really funny is that my parents have always eaten that high-protein diet -- and I was always on my veggie soapbox telling them they were going to ruin their kidneys eating too much protein.. haha.. but now they're laughing at me -- well, with me, I hope. :o) I've come to believe that some folks can do well on an all-plant diet, but just as some are unable to drink cow's milk, it just ain't for everybody. So I hope we can all experiment with different diets and find what works -- and tweak it as necessary. I'd like to try going back to eating more plant-based proteins and see how I feel... I love vegetarian food!! |
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| Health & Support | Confused about how much I should be eating...? | Jan 03 2008 19:43 (UTC) |
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Great! Glad to be helpful! You sound very sensible and instinctively aware of how to develop healthy habits. One more thing about water -- if you don't drink lots on a regular basis, apparently your system retains more water as a safety measure. If you're a big water-drinker, it doesn't hold on to it as much and you may feel less bloated as a result. I've gone through phases where I felt very full like that -- I was playing around with eating fewer grains for awhile, more veggies and fruits. Turns out that for me that balance of soluble and insoluble fibre was kind of important. Or maybe I was in 'bread withdrawl' haha.. but changing (or increasing/decreasing) your overall fibre intake can have unpredictable effects. Good luck! |
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| Health & Support | My toes fall asleep when I'm on the elliptical! | Jan 03 2008 17:41 (UTC) |
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| Haha! I have the same problem -- and only on the elliptical! I found a magazine article about it a while back (can't remember where, though, sorry!) -- apparently it's not uncommon. I think it's where the footbeds contact a major artery (vein?) in your foot in combo with your footwear -- one pair of shoes i have is really bad for sleepy feet, so like lilsammi23 I tried another that worked much better. Kinda funny feeling, eh? haha.. | |||
| Health & Support | Help :( | Jan 03 2008 04:58 (UTC) |
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little_butterfly.. are you really only 80 pounds, dear??? Is your doctor helping you with your recovery? I'm concerned about your chest pains as heart problems are a common side-effect of anorexia. I just read a story of a woman younger than you who had a heart attack due to severe anorexia, so please -- if your doctor isn't well-informed about ED recovery, find a doctor who is to advise you about getting healthy. Maybe you should take it easy with the exercise and concentrate on getting well... you need to be gentle and kind to yourself, as I'm sure you would be with a friend or a sister who described the feelings you're having. That lying scale is not your friend. A friend would tell you to treat yourself with generosity and compassion, to nourish your fragile body back to vibrant health. Throw your scale away and seek some good support. This ANRED group is all about ED recovery, and on this site, the ED recovery club is full of supportive people who know what it's like to be where you are. Take care! |
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| Health & Support | Too Much Water Causing Sickness? | Jan 03 2008 04:41 (UTC) |
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Oh my gosh, I've never heard of someone drinking so much water it made them wake up feeling sick and thirsty!! Extreme thirst can signal the onset of diabetes... You said this has happened a few times over a few weeks, so a persistent stomach bug is a possibility too....as is .. um.. pregnancy?? I'd see your doctor right away, no matter what. neni's got a good point too.... add a little drop of juice or something in there. Hmm.. I just converted your 50 oz average to litres (I'm Canadian! :o) and it's only about 1.5 litres -- I drink about 3 x that much per day.. so I don't think you're overdoing it. Time for a check-up! good luck |
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| Health & Support | diet pills. | Jan 03 2008 04:33 (UTC) |
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Yay!!! good call, sincere!
You have an ambitious but acheivable goal ahead of you -- establishing a healthier lifestyle is so much more important than the number on the scale. Do you have to lose the weight that fast for a reason? (heart disease, etc) If you're too severe in your approach, you might find it hard not to sabotage your success when under stress. Losing 2 pounds a week means creating a 7000 calorie deficit every 7 days - an enormous challenge to maintain for very long. To lose 1 pound a week, you'd only need to create a 500 cal/day deficit, which is easily doable by eating a little below your metabolic rate and exercising 30 min a day. That said, being on a 'diet' for a long time is a real drag... My husband did it the quick way -- like pulling off a bandaid -- he lost almost 100 pounds in just a few months -- not a very healthy way to do it, but he's kinda extreme like that. He ate 1000 cal's under his metabolic rate and burned another 1000 in the gym. Ouch!!! Lost a ton of muscle mass too -- Anyway - there are lots and lots of tips and tricks on this site!! here are some that I depend on: - Eat balanced (carbs/fat/protein) snacks often: every 2-3 hours, to prevent hunger/binging, eat high-fibre carbs (fruits/veggies/whole grains) & high-protein foods with healthy fats to keep hunger at bay. -Drink lots of water! -Build strong, lean muscle mass through resistance training to boost your metabolism 24/7 (as opposed to just cardio which burns calories only while workout out). -Take a day per week to eat 10-15% more than usual of something you love that may be a little less strict than your normal diet -- ice cream or oatmeal cookies, or whatever your vice -- have a drink of wine, whatever -- just be sure not to be in 'diet' mode every single day to prevent your body from adjusting to your lower caloric intake permanently. -If you're in good shape, try HIT (high intensity training) by doing some varied-tempo, short bursts of activity alternating with rest periods -- hiking up hills or stairs, then walking slowing down or on a flat surface, for example. A little does a LOT! 10 -15 minutes is plenty! Great for your metabolism and your heart. -Be kind to yourself !! Take each day as it comes and don't dwell on your 'bad' days. All over this site you'll see people reaching out for support when they're falling off their wagons. Whatever your struggle, you're not alone! -Take the long view -- you're changing your life, not just your weight. It may take time to reach your goals, so be patient! Take care! |
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| Health & Support | Are these posts actually sent by someone suffering from an ed? | Jan 03 2008 04:06 (UTC) |
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It must be annoying to have suffered with a horrible disease to hear people with much less trouble complaining about their lot -- but I don't think definining people's disordered eating will go anywhere but in circles -- Who's sick? who's just faking? does it matter? maybe a mildly poor relationship with food today will downgrade into a terrible ED tomorrow.. What matters the most is that if you're in a position to extend support to a fellow-ED sufferer (real or imagined) it would be amazing if you would. |
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| Health & Support | Relacore....has anyone tried it? | Jan 03 2008 03:56 (UTC) |
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| What is that for? | |||
| Health & Support | Question about daily intakes | Jan 03 2008 03:39 (UTC) |
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That's so interesting lovemusic -- so what is the safe amount of carbs for diabetics? That would be so frustrating for me.. I love my carbs.. lorieellen -- Your diet seems way too low in fat. You should get about double your current amount of healthy fats from monounsaturated and polyunsaturated sources like nuts, avocados, and olive oils. Do you have a target for carbs? I've been keeping very healthy on a 50/25/25 or 60/20/20 mix of carbs/fat/protein myself -- I eat a looooot of protein for a 'gal (sometimes upwards of 120 gr, hee hee). That usually works out to about 2100 cal's -- 100 g protein, 100 g fat, 200 g carbs. I do a lot of weight training, so I find that works for me. The Mayo Clinic recommends women get 21-25 g fibre per day, men, 30 -38. That seems very low to me, maybe the minimum. The WHO recommendation for protein posted above seems like a bare minimum too -- ok for sedentary folks, maybe. And 75% carbs!! wow.. I used to be a semi-vegetarian on a similar diet, and it was a disaster for me! I have reactive hypoglycemia, though, so I found a plant-based diet harder to balance than the higher-protein version I have now. You have to experiment to find what suits you -- sounds like you're on the right track, though! |
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| Health & Support | Confused about how much I should be eating...? | Jan 03 2008 03:28 (UTC) |
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One more quick thing! If you're strength training, you may see some bloating from water retention -- a common reaction to the stress of lifting weights. That is all. :o) |
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| Health & Support | Confused about how much I should be eating...? | Jan 03 2008 03:25 (UTC) |
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You sound like you're on the perfect path to health! At your age, your body is still growing and building muscle with all your great physical activity, so you'll have to put up with some fluctuations.. It's a pain, I know, but since you seem to be wavering in and around variations on a perfect weight, you needn't worry about the numbers on the scale as much as your strength and energy -- and your personal sense of well-being. Actually, varying your caloric intake day to day is a recommended style of eating for folks like dieters who don't want to lose lean mass, or bodybuilders who want to gain lean mass while not gaining too much -- or even losing -- fat... I'm trying that myself these days. While I'd say your target of 2000 cal's a day is about right, there's no telling exactly how many is perfect for you.. and if you find it just a tad too much, then maybe 1800, or even 1856 might work better -- the best way to look at it is an average over a few days or a week. On very active days, you'll need a little more, on rest days, maybe a bit less. A couple of things to consider -- that bloated feeling may be caused by other things -- fibre, more sodium than usual, eating later in the day, TTOM, etc... Another thing to consider... If you do end up overeating just a tad for a few weeks while you're in a heavy weight-training phase, you will be giving your body lots of muscle-building nutrition (*eat lots of lean protein!). Later, when you're in a lighter phase, you could easily cut up (ie -- lose any extra fat you might have added in the process) and voila -- lean mass-o-rama. I accidentally did that a year ago -- gained about 7 pounds, haha.. oops! -- but it was actually mostly muscle, and then when I leaned out (thanks to this site) -- my bodyfat was way lower! It turned out to be the best thing I ever did. Too much information? Sorry ! Good luck!
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| Health & Support | Metabolism? | Jan 03 2008 03:13 (UTC) |
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Yay! Muscle! :o) Great advice all around -- Just wanted to mention not to forget to balance your carbs/protein/fat in some ratio in the range of 50/25/25%, which you prolly already know, but it's important to get enough protein when you're building lean mass. Also, if you do start working out more, just be sure to take in some carbs pre-workout, and some carbs and protein post-workout -- like, not a huge meal, just enough to keep the furnace burning fuel and not your muscle. Oh -- and one big metabolism booster is HIT or short bursts of cardio, rather than steady-state. Good luck! |
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| Health & Support | Cold Hands and Fingers | Jan 03 2008 03:10 (UTC) |
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| Just wanted to copy the mention of Raynaud's -- my mom has it and her extremities are like ICE!!! Check it out -- any circulatory misfire can be symptomatic of a larger issue. good luck! | |||
| Health & Support | maintaining/loosing just a tad :O | Jan 02 2008 02:01 (UTC) |
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Hi folks -- I'm concerned that you're so worried about the scale at your already low weights, thelord & soursips. Undereating to the point where your bones are visible promotes unhealthy eating, which is contrary to the posting guidelines and spirit of this site. At 5'4", if you focused on building lean muscle mass through strength training and healthy eating, you'd be beautifully toned & defined even at 120+. I urge you to hit the gym, eat at least 2000 cal's a day and get lots of healthy fat, lean protein, and fibre-rich carbs. In these important years, you're building bones and muscles that need to last you a lifetime. Please stop starving -- forget the scale and get healthy! |
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| Health & Support | hows my nutrition report | Jan 02 2008 01:43 (UTC) |
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If you're pretty sedentary and undereating now.. and you jump-start your metabolism by eating more frequent, healthy meals, more calories, and working out, you will not believe the difference in your body, your energy level, and your sense of well-being, in just a few months. If you really embrace a healthier lifestyle, the results can be dramatic. Take your 'before' pics and/or write some journal entries now.. then look back in a year and see what I mean. Hit the gym, my friend!! but don't overdo it -- your first year should be about learning good form and building strength and resilience in your joints and tendons. Get good advice (there's lots on this site!) and find a supportive training partner if you can. It's proven to be more effective than any supplements by a mile.
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| Weight Loss | Can a mocha wake up your metabolism in the early morning? | Dec 31 2007 16:51 (UTC) |
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Wow, thank you, xochitl92113 , for summing up the wrong-headedness of chop_chop's little rant. Molly mouser's responses are always polite, helpful, cheerful, and totally nonjudgemental, including her response to the simple question: The clarification requested: ..has no judgment that I could see, and I think she was doing her due dilligence by requesting clarification. After all, one person's black cuppa joe (0 calories) is another person's 4x4, 500 cal fancy coffee. Anyway. Caffeine certainly revv's my metabolism -- badly, and temporarily. When I eat breakfast, I tend to burn through the cal's quickly, requiring another snack soon thereafter. But then I'm a self-caffeinated person. I've recently switched to decaf and have felt less cranked in the a.m. On the other hand, some folks can't stomach food first thing, and need a jolt of something to wake up in a timely fashion. Aside from the caffeine boost, since it's a calorie- and macronutrient-void diruetic, coffee shouldn't be more than a stop-gap until mealtime, but as vices go, it's a lightweight. Now I have a coffee craving!! ps -- if you do want your coffee to fill a little nutritional gap until you're hungrier, you could blend some with skim milk and a bit of stevia/splenda/honey, and ice.... or even add some protein powder. Iced frappucino, yummy!!! |
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| Health & Support | Exercise and Incontinence? | Dec 18 2007 13:00 (UTC) |
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Hmmm.... I would definitely see a doctor to rule out a UTI (urinary tract) infection. They can lurk about in the bg, never really getting better, which can lead to complications. I used to get 'em a lot and started taking cranberry extract cap's preventatively. I've been having the same issue with my beloved Diet Pepsi which I have about once every day. (*note hypocrisy alert -- I told someone earlier not to drink artificially sweetened stuff) It just amp's up my bladder response time!! I can tell it's just my body saying, 'what the $&%& is that !! let's get it outta here asap!'.. another reason for me to quit my lifelong habit. This is apparently common in peri-menopause as the muscles lose their elasticity... I know there is treatment using sensors to train muscles to gain strength. Definitely find a great gynocologist to ask about this problem. I've read stories about runners who were able to fix it. |
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Where can I see 1/8th or 1/6th of a pie or angel food cake?
This is the best way to picture a portion of pie or cake: Draw a circle to represent the circumference of the cake or pie (9" pie? 10" cake?... Read more

