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| Weight Loss | Random Food, Health and Fitness Questions (don't know where to put) | Apr 01 2008 21:07 (UTC) |
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Here are the World Health Organization dietary guidelines (pdf - page 56):
They suggest getting most of your calories from plant-based sources. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Apr 01 2008 21:00 (UTC) |
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Original Post by r6riderchick: Perhaps not, but it carrys more weight than john doe's internet site. That's the point, and has been the point all along. The religious text example was quite flawed. Religious texts do not change. Religious texts are said to be true by default. Religious texts are not verifiable externally. The scientific method is designed to be none of those things. Whether it always overcomes this or not is not really important, at least, not to the disucssion at hand. Now, if you want to move to a different aspect of the conversation, namely the validity of the articles I posted, that's a different subject. Frankly, you'd need to read them first. If my opinion is without merit simply because I posted links to journals, what does that say about the merits of your opinions that are based on attacks of something without any knowledge of them? |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Apr 01 2008 20:52 (UTC) |
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Well then it's good for both sides to be aired. How many people do you think have heard that milk could be bad for your health and that there may not be as many benefits as people have been led to believe? From my, limited, experience it would seem that almost nobody has heard that milk may have real and serious dangers associated with it even for levels of consumption that are well below average. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Apr 01 2008 20:46 (UTC) |
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Original Post by r6riderchick: I never even mentioned a scientific theory or the idea of "absolute truth." If you can point to where I did I'll correct myself. What I posted were links to articles in scientific journals when questioned about the credibility of my answers. What you are attacking (and yes, it was clearly a personal attack) has nothing to do with the realities of what I posted or what I believe. I seem to be a scientific radical? I'm not even sure what that means. Is it so radical to believe that the scientific process is, in general, sound and credible? More credible, in fact, than just about anything else most of the time. Or am I a "scientific radical" because I believe science to be more credible than religious texts? If so, then radical I am. |
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| Vegetarian | milk alternative? | Apr 01 2008 20:34 (UTC) |
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Original Post by thea8: I like water personally. |
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| Foods | So confusing to be pulled in so many different directions!!! - Diets and exercises for body shapes, blood types | Apr 01 2008 20:32 (UTC) |
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Original Post by jenniechris: I haven't read that yet, so that must have been something that someone I know quoted from it. I knew I'd heart it somewhere though. Both of those books are on my (long and getting longer) reading list. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Apr 01 2008 20:31 (UTC) |
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obigmcveyo, The point has been lost a bit. Is there a source of information that is more credible in general than scientific journals? My point was not that scientific journals represent absolute truth. My point was a rebuttal to someone who claimed that all my information was from some guy with a webpage. If there are more credible resources than scientific journals, I'll be happy to reconsider my sources for information. |
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| Vegetarian | Vegan Kidd FOODZ | Apr 01 2008 20:27 (UTC) |
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Original Post by brighteyes82: Fortunately, my wife and I don't have the same issue. We both decided to go vegan last summer after we both read the china study. My wife was waaaay skeptical at first, but then after she read it, she was completely on board. So it's nice to have a unified front for our boy. My opinion is this, parents are the sole deciders on what your child should be eating. If they're going to a birthday party or school event, you should make sure they go there after they've eaten so they're not likely to pig out on cake, ice cream, and pizza. I, personally, have zero problem informing other people what my boy can and can't eat. That's not pushing any beliefs, that's being a good parent IMO :D Having said all of that, I'm not so dense as to think the boy isn't going to be sneaky with treats and bad food. I'm not sure I'd want my son to be such a goodie two shoes that he follows my whims in lock step for the rest of his life. That sounds funny I suppose. I definitely want him to eat healthfully, but at the same time I don't? What I really want is for him to learn to make his own decisions. And I want to be there to help him learn what those decisions should probably be. If he decides that the meat eating life is for him, then so be it as long as I've done what I can to help him understand nutrition. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Apr 01 2008 20:16 (UTC) |
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Original Post by obigmcveyo: The dangers of too much soy, that's a fabulous point. Will I stop eating it? Not entirely because it has been shown that those who consume whole soy products as a small percentage of their diet (less than 10% I believe is what I read, I'll see if I can find that resource if you need) showed health benefits. What I won't do is to make soy a large portion of my diet or to consume soy isolates because that has shown to increase the risks for diseases. That is the risk assessment people need to make in their lives. We should get away from the I'm going to eat it because I like it and they say that everything causes diseases so I may as well and towards what amount of this food is likely to be beneficial, what amount is likely to be detrimental? Soy, a little is great for you. Milk, not so much, lots less than you think. Dark leafy greens, you can pretty much eat them until you can't eat any more. And so on. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Apr 01 2008 20:03 (UTC) |
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Original Post by gi-jane: The problem is that the term "moderate" and "small" are so vague as to be able to describe virtually anything to a given person. Is 10 glasses of milk a day moderate? How about 1 glass per day? How about 2 per week? How do the risks change? Those behind the studies take great care to detail their methods and will detail exactly what risks are associated with what level of consumption. So to say that, oh there is a risk to everything, which means that anything is fair game as long as you consume it "in moderation" is disingenuous. It's confusing to people to hear that IMO. How much dairy puts me at risk for various diseases? It turns out, more than a serving or two per week will put people at increased risks fo diseases. How animal protein puts me at risk? Consuming greater than 10% of your calories from animal protein puts you at great risk. How much nitrites will it take to put me at risk? About 270,000 bologna sandwiches-worth. There may be risks associated with most everything (too much water will kill you); however, that doesn't mean that one should throw their hands up and just eat anything. |
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| Foods | So confusing to be pulled in so many different directions!!! - Diets and exercises for body shapes, blood types | Apr 01 2008 18:48 (UTC) |
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Original Post by gi-jane: From eat to live right? I've read that line too and it's pretty much spot on. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Apr 01 2008 18:29 (UTC) |
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Original Post by giggle_puppy: 1) Push vegan propoganda 2) ??? 3) Profit!!! Exhibit A, back to your cage. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Apr 01 2008 18:28 (UTC) |
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Original Post by r6riderchick: I'll just let that comment stand so everyone can see how ridiculous it is. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Apr 01 2008 18:25 (UTC) |
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Original Post by gi-jane: That's a bit disingenuous don't you think? Surely you don't think that everything that we consume (in the amounts we typically consume them) carries the same level of risk. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Apr 01 2008 17:51 (UTC) |
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Nevermind, reading is hard... |
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| Pregnancy & Parenting | New Pre-Mommy Questions | Apr 01 2008 12:45 (UTC) |
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Original Post by vanessa1031: 1) I'm a stay-at-home dad, so I've had to do a lot of reheating of breastmilk in the past 18 months. A bottle warmer is sooooo much more convenient than the stove top is. It's definitely worth it. But one question, since you're a mom-to-be, are you not going to be breastfeeding? Breastmilk is far superior to formula and heating breast milk is much easier :D 2) Swaddlers are just stretchy diapers as far as I can tell. I liked the swaddlers better since they felt less stiff on the boy. 3) We used the pack and play with the infant insert for a long time since we were moving house right after our son was born. It has been invaluable for travelling and dinner parties since then. We bring the pack and play and when the boy gets tired, we put him up in a room in his pack and play and he sleeps while we have fun. We really would not have had any use for a bassinet. We did, however, get a playpen. Frankly until the kid is crawling, you won't need a playpen at all. My suggestion is to get some of those puzzle piece floor mats for the baby to lie down on, one of those little vibrating chairs, and/or a swing. Those will come in much more handy for the next 6 to 12 months than a playpen will. 4) We have 2 sets of sheets for his crib and one for his pack and play. That's been more than enough for us. 5) We started out with a cheapo baby carrier that we got at a garage sale for like $3. It lasted us for basically the first year without any problems. Then we moved on to a massive hiking backpack. Recently my wife got something similar to the baby bjorn but more versatile and can handle him now that he's bigger. We're not fans of the uber trendy baby bjorn if you can't tell. My wife has a sling too, though we hardly ever use it. She says it's comfortable for her, the baby looks way uncomfortable (though he appears to sleep well in it), and I can't freaking stand it because it's so uncomfortable. 6) They grow out of onesies faster than you'd think. My wife and I went to garage sales and spent $50 and got him almost all the clothes he needed until he was 3 years old. They were all very new clothes, most had only been worn a few times, some still had the tags on them. Now his clothes are stained and dirty and packed away for our next child. We can't imagine spending $10 on one outfit (let alone $50 or $60 that we've seen in stores sometimes). FYI, our boy was big too (8lbs 11oz) and he has consistently been 3 to 4 months ahead in his clothing. His 0-3 stuff was getting tight at 2 months. 7) I've heard (though I haven't verified) that baby powder is a no no since it can get in baby's lungs which is bad. We've used desitin from the start and that's been great. |
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| The Lounge | This Is Disturbing | Apr 01 2008 08:24 (UTC) |
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"If cow milk caused cancer, wouldn't baby cows have cancer? How the hell can something like milk give you cancer, jeez some people believe anything." That is some dubious logic there. Cow's milk has been shown to give humans cancer, it is, of course, the perfect thing for baby cows. But not even baby cows drink cows milk their whole life just like baby humans, they wean after a certain age. Anyhow, there has been plenty of research into the issue and there are a lot of different factors in milk that promote cancer and to help it grow. Yes, it goes against everything you've ever heard in school probably. You can thank the dairy industry for that. |
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| The Lounge | This Is Disturbing | Mar 31 2008 23:31 (UTC) |
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Original Post by swimchick_123: It's not true that dairy doesn't hurt us. In fact, it is very likely that dairy DOES hurt us in the long run in lots of different ways -- it has links to cancer, osteoporosis (yeah, brittle bones because you drink milk not the other way around), heart disease, autoimmune diseases, etc. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Mar 31 2008 22:11 (UTC) |
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You'll have the same problems with milk no matter the source unfortunately. You can limit the saturated fat problems by drinking skim milk and you can limit the other problems by reducing your consumption to nor more than 1 or 2 servings per week. Or if it is too delicious for you to give up, you can risk it. Nothing is a guarantee I suppose. I know I am definitely not so partial to dairy that the risks are worth it to me. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Mar 31 2008 20:32 (UTC) |
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Exhibit A, don't you belong over here? |
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| The Lounge | This Is Disturbing | Mar 31 2008 20:05 (UTC) |
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So you get 30% of your calories from 5 tablespoons of vegetable oil and that's supposed to make you feel full? I'm down with eating plenty of fats, don't get me wrong. It's just that it makes more sense to me to have them come from things like avocadoes, olives, nuts, and seeds. At least then you get all the fiber and other nutrients along with the fats. Not attacking, it just surprises me that plant oils would be sitting where they are on that harvard pyramid. |
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| The Lounge | This Is Disturbing | Mar 31 2008 18:28 (UTC) |
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Wow nomo, I hadn't seen that pyramid before. The HSH really puts vegetable oils on the very bottom with grains? So you should be getting more veggie oil and grains than fruits and veggies according to the HSH. This food pyramid seems to make more sense to me: http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/Fuhrmid. jpg. The most nutrient dense foods should be lowest on the pyramid IMO. By the way, if you've got any pull with the caloriecount devs, can you ask them to allow posting of images? :D
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Mar 31 2008 18:03 (UTC) |
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I assure you, I laugh at your posts, I don't get mad at them. You have a serious lack of substance in your posting. You say something isn't backed up by credible sources and then when given credible sources (what is more credible than scientific journals?) you claim to have some kind of inside knowledge on where those sources come from (as if it matters). So your only tactic is a series of seriously lame personal attacks. And for what reason? You just said you agree with me but you dislike how I present information. And *I'M* the one getting mad LOL! That's awesome. I tell you what, go look up what I cited and then get back with us. Or continue to wallow in your ignorance. I still don't care :D My personal gratification is the knowledge that you're coming off as a moron for no good reason. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Mar 31 2008 17:19 (UTC) |
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Original Post by jimbopc: Some of us actually own and read books. I know it's a strange concept. Just check out my profile picture, you can see that there are actual, honest to goodness books behind me. Wow! It doesn't matter where those sources came from (a book if you must know), what matters is that those are bibliographical references for the information that I posted. Those are all scientific journals. You have all the information to go look up what I posted and see for yourself. Or you can wallow in your own ignorance. Doesn't matter much to me. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Mar 31 2008 14:05 (UTC) |
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Original Post by jimbopc: Let's reopen it shall we?
Those CREDIBLE sources should keep you busy reading for a while. |
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| Foods | Why should we avoid milk?? | Mar 31 2008 13:32 (UTC) |
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Of those autoimmune diseases studied in relation to nutrition (MS, diabetes type I and II, Parkinson's, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's, Colitis, etc.), the consumption of animal-based foods -- especially cow's milk -- is associated with greater disease risk. Consumption of cow's milk was found to be as good of a predictor of MS as latitude. Americans consume more cow's milk and its products per person than most populations in the world. So Americans should have wonderfully strong bones, right? Unfortunately not. A recent study showed that American women aged fifty and older have one of the highest rates of hip fractures in the world. The only countries with higher rates are in Europe and in the south Pacific (Austrialia and New Zealand) where they consume even more milk than the United States. What's going on? Those countries that use the most cow's milk and its products also have the highest fracture rates and the worste bone health. Under healthy conditions, the body uses an activated form of vitamin D, calcitriol, to adjust how much calcium it absorbs from food and how much it excretes and distributes in the bone. Calcitriol is considered a hormone; when more calcium is needed, it enhances calcium absorption and restricts calcium excretion. If too much calcium is consumed over a long period of time, the body may lose its ability to regulate calcitriol, permanently or temporarily disrupting the regulation of calcium absorption and excretion. Animal protein and excessive amounts of calcium increase the risk of osteoporosis. Milk is the only food that is rich in both of these nutrients. Dairy intake is "one of the most consistent dietary predictors for prostate cancer in the published literature," and those who consume the most dairy have double to quadruple the risk. That is according to a 2001 Harvard review of research into the subject. Casein (the protein in cow's milk) has been shown in animal studies to be an extremely potent cancer promoter. |
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| The Lounge | This Is Disturbing | Mar 31 2008 13:09 (UTC) |
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Original Post by swimchick_123: No children do not need 3 servings of dairy per day. In fact, they would be much better off if they had zero dairy and instead ate nutrient dense, plant-based diet. Dairy is linked over and over again to cancer, heart disease, and autoimmune diseases. The foods that a child consumes the first 5 years of life have the greatest impact on health down the road so it is important to avoid giving dairy to children. |
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| Foods | Salt Recommendation | Mar 29 2008 11:46 (UTC) |
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Holy cow, that's a lot of salt. Shoot for 1000mg or less of sodium |
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| Vegetarian | Artificial Sweeteners- vegan? | Mar 28 2008 19:20 (UTC) |
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A little off topic, but waifdreams, I've heard the same thing about filtered water and bone char. I'm not an ethical vegan so it doesn't matter to me, just thought I'd mention it. |
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| Vegetarian | Meat in moderation? | Mar 28 2008 11:58 (UTC) |
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Original Post by kona_scott You eat 70g of meat and get only 15g of protein? The only other nutrient in meat is fat so you're getting 55g of fat per day. You said that 15g of protein (60 calories) is 20-30% of your protein calories in a day which means you consume 200 to 300 calories from protein per day. Your 55g of fat would be 495 calories on its own. Sorry, Scott, something just doesn't add up here. Your diet is either very odd and extremely high in saturated fats or you got your math and/or estimations wrong. The fact is that 20-30% of your calories coming from animal protein is a problem and will lead to ill health later in life no matter what amount of total calories you consume. You may want to take a more realistic view of what you're actually eating instead of guessing at it. |
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New journal post se by kathygator 13:31 |
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New forum message why is this happening? by demortae 13:26 |
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indyquilter88 added sherrybooth as a friend |
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ribbon added sexygrandma as a friend |
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ribbon added 2beittybitty as a friend |