| Forum | Topic | Date | Replies |
| Fitness | Why are women so terrified of bulking up? | Jul 01 2009 22:47 (UTC) |
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Original Post by melkor: I think I have a new hero. |
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| Fitness | Why are women so terrified of bulking up? | Jul 01 2009 20:47 (UTC) |
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I think bulky just sounds bad. "Long and lean" or "toned" sounds better than "bulky". I don't want to "bulk up" - I want better looking stronger muscles...so I lift weights. Go figure. |
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| Fitness | Why are women so terrified of bulking up? | Jul 01 2009 20:38 (UTC) |
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Original Post by pgeorgian: Nah, it's just misinformation perpetuated by bad women's fitness magazines. |
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| Fitness | The HIIT thread - Post all questions, routines, and experiences here | Jul 01 2009 18:18 (UTC) |
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Has anyone ever tried HIIT on a rowing machine? I don't know if it would be too hard on my back/arms, but I have one at home and I hate running, so I thought I might try it. Any thoughts or suggestions? |
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| The Lounge | Delete please | Sep 25 2008 18:07 (UTC) |
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I'm 25, married for about a year and a half, and I met my husband when I was 19. A lot of people think that's young, but really, it's all relative. I dated several guys in college prior to dating my husband. We were actually friends before we started dating. In any case, he graduated a year before me and was working while I was still in school. When I graduated, we moved in together and then about 9 months after that he proposed. We had a year and a half engagement. So all told, we knew each other about five years before we were married. There was never a single point when I decided that this was the man that I wanted to marry. As someone else said, he kind of grew on me. We are best friends, first and foremost, and we made a decision that we wanted to be partners in life. People will talk about how much they love a person and can't live without them, but in reality that's never truly the case. When you get married, you are creating a partnership. You are agreeing that you will be there for that person to make them a better person and to support them in everything that they do, and they agree to the same for you. I could live without my husband, I could support myself financially and I certainly wouldn't physically die without him, but I don't want to live without him and I don't think that I ever will. There will be difficult times, and times when I don't feel all gushy in love, but that doesn't matter because I've decided to make a life with him and to be partners with him. The priest at our wedding gave a great piece of advice; "You have to make the decision to love the person every single day." So my advice to you is to look at your relationship very carefully and make a decision as to whether or not you want to make a life partnership with your boyfriend. Don't worry about age, don't worry about what people think, just make a decision for yourself. If he's hurt you in the past, ask yourself if you think he'll do the same again. Do you want to have children with this man? Does he even want kids? Do you? Do you keep secrets from him or he from you? Do you want a career? How will that affect your relationship? Where do you want to live? How would you ideally set up your finances (money raises a lot of questions in a lot of relationships, so be sure to think carefully about this). What about religion? Talk to him about all of these things as well, because you might be surprised at some if his answers. The pros and cons list is a really great idea, but make sure that you ask all the questions of yourself and of him. I should probably also add, that marriage does not automatically equate to children. My husband and I have decided to wait several years so that we can enjoy just being together and spend our money travelling rather than on kids. You can still enjoy life and do lots of wonderful things, you'll just be doing them together rather than on your own for the most part. You can also still have your own life and career - I do! I have my own friends and so does he; even though we all hang out together pretty often, they're still primarily my or his friends. I also have a career and career goals, and he's supportive of that. Marriage sometimes requires sacrifice, but it also requires compromise and you don't always have to give up everything. |
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| Fitness | Jump roping | Sep 25 2008 16:47 (UTC) |
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I've used both plastic and leather ropes. Both have a tendency to curl in whatever way they were packaged, but the plastic ones have worn out much more quickly than the leather one, though I admit that the plastic ones that I have purchased have been very cheap. The plastic also move faster and easier, so I feel like it's less of a workout for your arms (which may be okay depending on what you want to be doing). The leather one moves slower, so it's harder to get around, plus the one that I bought has removable one-pound weights that fit into the handles so you can increase the intensity to your arms. Personally, I really like the leather one. Jumping rope is a great cardio exercise and really burn calories quickly as far as cardio goes. I like to turn it into interval training by jumping regular (one turn per jump) for a minute and then "double-unders" (two turns per jump) for a minute. My calves always KILL the next day (in a good way though). :) |
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| The Lounge | College nutrition class teaching old, now false, info | Sep 24 2008 20:39 (UTC) |
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Why does it have to be a challenge to the professor? It seems to me that you should be able to discuss your ideas in an open forum that does not turn into a bad grade for you. I concede that this is a bit of a naive, idealistic view of college, but I honestly think that it all depends on how you present the issue to the prof. For example, if you were to say "Hey prof, you're wrong! I read this article in Cosmo that said X, Y, and Z", then yes, you will piss off the prof and not be taken seriously, resulting in a bad grade. On the other hand, if you meet with your professor during office hours and say, "Hi professor A, I was interested in the topic that we discussed yesterday in class so I did some additional research on it. I found this peer-reviewed published scientific article that appears to contradict some of the things you said in class, and I was hoping that we could discuss it and you could help me better understand the findings of the study," then you've not only shown your interest in the class and eagerness to learn, you've flattered the professor by asking for his/her help. Some professors aren't really interested in helping students or even really teaching, so you have to understand what type of professor you're dealing with before you push the line, but I've never met a professor who will give you a bad grade for asking questions. By not telling the professor that he/she is wrong, and just asking the question, the worst that can happen is that they won't discuss the matter with you and you can just go back to regurgitating answers. By all means, protect your GPA, but why not take control of your own education a little at the same time? |
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| The Lounge | College nutrition class teaching old, now false, info | Sep 24 2008 18:53 (UTC) |
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I think it all depends on the professor. If he/she is a good professor and is willing to have some dialogue, I would probably go to office hours, with the book or article that contradicts the information provided in class and just discuss it. You might be surprised at the result of those discussions. I once had an awesome professor who was totally open to discussion and debate, and often what was discussed in office hours was ultimately discussed in class. What I realized from that class, is that the professor needed to give us some outdated background information so that we could work up to understanding and appreciating the newer, more cutting edge information. By understanding the old, we were able to think critically about the new, and vice versa. Since studies are constantly being performed and information updated, things are proven correct or incorrect all the time, and those critical thinking skills come in handy for each article or book read. That being said, if the professor truly is "old and crusty", I would just let it lie. I'm guessing this is a 100 level course and most students are just taking it for a GE or something. If that's the case, the professor won't care about the latest studies and you won't get anywhere. You'll be better off just staying up to date on the information for yourself. |
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| Fitness | New Rules of Lifting for Women | Sep 23 2008 22:39 (UTC) |
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Hi Paula - Somehow I missed your second post there about the interval training (#53). Did you ever do the intervals on your lifting day, like on the weekend? If so, did you feel a difference in your performance? I'm interested to know what the affect of splitting it up will be, but like I said before, most likely that is what I will have to do too. |
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| Fitness | New Rules of Lifting for Women | Sep 23 2008 21:43 (UTC) |
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Wow Paula - your schedule puts me to shame! But I totally agree that working out saves my sanity. Especially NROLW, I think because lifting weights makes me feel powerful, and improving my physical strength seems to improve my mental strength at the same time. When I was doing stage 1, I would work out Tues and Thurs and then either Sat or Sun depending on what my plans were for the day. That seemed to work really well. I think what's getting to me now is that Stage 2 is taking a little longer in the morning, so if I'm not out of bed, dressed, and warming up by 5:15 (I work out at home), I won't have time to get it all done before I have to get ready for work (starting no later than 6:30), so then I just decide to try again the next day and go back to bed (bad attitude, I know). Maybe it's just efficiency though. Since I've just started stage 2, I still double check the book to make sure I'm following proper form and trying to figure out the right level of weights for each exercise. I'm sure it will get better (or I will Thank you all for your support! I think just posting here yesterday was what got me out of bed this morning. I just told myself that there couldn't be any more excuses. What have people done for the interval training? Any thoughts on doing the lifting one day and the interval training the next? I think that may be what I have to do in order to get the interval training in, at least during the week, but I'm not sure how that will affect the performance of the program. Does anyone know if it will make a difference? |
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| Fitness | New Rules of Lifting for Women | Sep 23 2008 18:09 (UTC) |
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I've found that if I put my workouts off until the evening, I'll find even more excuses not to do them! For one thing, my commute takes over an hour and I often work until 6 or 7, so I don't get home until 8, and then I just want to have dinner with my husband and go to bed. If I workout in the morning, the only person I can blame for not getting it done is myself, which in the past has meant that I'll do it, but now I'm just tired. Good news though - I managed to get a workout in this morning and it felt great! It was workout B from Stage 2. I didn't do the interval training because I ran out of time, but I think I'll be able to work that in this afternoon, or at worst tomorrow morning. |
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| Fitness | New Rules of Lifting for Women | Sep 22 2008 21:13 (UTC) |
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Hi Everyone! I am so excited that there's a thread specifically for NROLW now! (I haven't been on the site in awhile). I finished stage 1 a couple of weeks ago and have been trying to start Stage 2 since then. Unfortunately, work has been super hectic and I've been incredibly tired recently, so I haven't been very consistent (only one workout a week for the last two weeks Is anyone else having a similar problem? Are there any good suggestions for motivating yourself to get your butt out of bed and workout in the morning? |
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| The Lounge | Dog owners.... | Sep 18 2008 22:10 (UTC) |
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Warning to Suburban Dog Owners I live in a nice suburban neighborhood with a large fully-fenced backyard and have two large-breed mutts (really no idea what breeds they are, maybe husky/german shepherd). My husband and I built a dog run for them which they love. We put in pavers so that they're not constantly in the dirt, and they have lots of shade and a huge bucket of water. We live in So. Cal. so the weather is pretty much always nice enough for them, but when it gets really hot in the summer we keep them inside with the A/C on. Or at least that's what we used to do . . . Unfortunately, someone decided that it would be fun to take pop-shots at our dogs with a bee bee (sp?) gun. We discovered this one day when we found a lump on Foster's chest. When we took him to the vet, they discovered a bee bee imbedded in his skin. Needless to say, we can no longer keep our dogs outside. Instead, we now have to keep them indoors while we're at work, which is usually about 10 hours away from home. We're going to buy a security camera to monitor the yard, and then post a bunch of signs so that whoever did it won't do it again, but until that day, our poor (big) dogs live almost entirely in the house. Just a reminder that if you do keep your dogs outside during the day, make sure you pay attention to who your neighbors are and check the dogs for injuries. If we hadn't found that lump, we might never have known that someone was tormenting our puppies, and who knows how far that person might have taken things. |
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| Fitness | How much to increase weight by? | Aug 21 2008 18:04 (UTC) |
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There are probably a lot more qualified people out there to respond to this, but my understanding is that if you can do more than 12 reps in a single set with a given weight, you need to increase the weight. This is assuming that you're working under the low rep, high weight theory of lifting, but most people who seriously lift weights follow that line of thought. As for how much of an increase, it depends on where you're at and what set of muscles you're working. For example, if you can do 3 sets of 15 reps (3x15) of a squat at 100 lbs, you might increase your weight 10 lbs or so and see where that leaves you. If you can now only do 3x6 reps, you're probably at the right weight. If you can still do 3x12 reps, you might increase the weight even more. However, squats target the largest muscles of the legs and you're starting at a higher weight, so increasing by 10 lbs is only a 10% increase. For an exercise that targets a smaller muscle where you're already using less weight, you might only increase the weight by 5 lbs or even less. So if you're doing shoulder presses with 10 lb weights right now, and you can do 3x15 reps, you would probably only increase the weight to 12 lb weights and see where that leaves you. You're now using a weight that's 20% heavier! But as you can tell, it's a bit of a trial and error process. |
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| Fitness | Weight training and weight gain | Aug 21 2008 17:48 (UTC) |
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Hi kngrant124 - I'm also 5'5" and 25 yrs old. Is there a reason that you're only eating 1200 calories? That seems a little low to me. I weigh about 135 right now and I usually eat about 2000 a day. I'm mostly trying to build muscle right now, so I wouldn't expect you to be eating that much necessarily, but according to this calculator, which is often used be people on these forums, you should be eating about 1500 calories (assuming you're female; male would be different but even higher). I don't think that undereating is the cause of the weight gain, but it could be part of the reason you plateaued. My guess would be that the weight gain is due to water retention in your muscles. You have to give your body time to adapt a bit (not too much though - you need to keep challenging yourself too) to the work you're making it do before you start worrying about the weight. It sounds like you're on the right track as far as your health is concerned, so don't let a number on the scale mess with your head. Note how you feel on a daily basis and how your clothes are fitting. It's a much better guide than a scale which can move up or down several lbs in the course of one day, let alone a week or a month. |
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| Foods | Looking to up My protein... | Aug 20 2008 00:41 (UTC) |
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If you're going for foods rather than supplements, eggs and low-fat cottage cheese are two of the best. They both have high protein as a percentage of total calories and won't make you feel stuffed, plus they are about as complete as you can find as far as the amino acids available in a single food. Beans are also great as are any lean meats, but I personally can't eat enough of them to get the protein grams that I need in a weight lifting day without feeling totally stuffed. If you're looking for supplements, I would recommend 100% Gold Standard Natural Whey Protein powder. I love the chocolate and vanilla flavors, and it has 24g of protein per scoop. The natural version also has no artificial flavors or chemicals (they do contain stevia, however, but they consider that a plant extract rather than an artificial flavoring). There are a lot of other brands out there as well that are probably just as good, but this is the one that I use and really like. You can mix the powder with milk or any liquid. I mix the vanilla with yogurt quite a bit, or add it to my cereal. You can also make a really yummy shake if you mix the chocolate with milk and a tbs or two of peanut butter (it tastes kind of like a reeses but you're getting a LOT of protein). The powders themselves won't fill you up, but the mixers could, depending on what you choose. |
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| The Lounge | Can I just rant about my job? :( | Aug 19 2008 21:54 (UTC) |
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You have to treat this as a learning experience. I don't know what your BA was in, however I would not suggest that you go work at McDonald's even if it would be better, because it doesn't give you the experience that you need to find your NEXT job. Keep a positive attitude about it and swing things your way. For example, you say you're working on a huge conference and sending out massive mailings. Guess what, you now have experience in event planning and marketing. Both of those key terms will look great on your resume and help you get that better job that you're looking for. Keep your chin up. Everyone dislikes their boss at some point, but at least you only have one (think about Office Space)! But remember that you don't have to stay there, you just have to find something better that move you in the right direction. Keep looking for other jobs at the University, there's usually turn over right before the start of the school year. Keep your resume up to date and on hand so that if you meet someone that's doing something interesting, you can give it to them (maybe not right then and there, but get their email, send a follow-up question, and then send a resume after their response). Start networking with other people. If there's an alumni club at the University, make sure you join and attend their events to see if there's anything out there. In the meantime, just do what you have to do to learn anything and everything you can where you're at and develop the skills that will get you the job you want. Take classes in anything to keep your brain active and further develop those skills and just keep smiling. Don't let your boss get to you. I know it's easier said than done (been there myself), but remember, it's business, not personal, and you need to do the best that you can for yourself. |
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| Fitness | Working out for girls... need some advice | Aug 14 2008 20:54 (UTC) |
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Try picking up a copy of the New Rules of Lifting for Women. I've been following the workout plan for a while now and have noticed a difference. I don't strictly follow the diet, though I do try to follow the general principles as much as possible. I haven't lost much weight, but I feel "tighter" and I'm seeing more muscle definition. I know there are a lot of other women on this site who also follow the plan. I think it's a great place to start if you want to build muscle and lose some fat. It has some really good workout and diet advice, as well as detailed descriptions and pictures of the exercises for you to follow. That being said, it does not emphasize cardio at all (although in later stages you do some interval training) and from the sounds of it, you really enjoy cardio. The author tells you how to incorporate cardio if it's something you love, but also cautions against over-doing it, so if you swim or dance or play tennis 6 days a week and don't want to give any of that up, this may not be the plan for you. |
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| Fitness | Slim in 6 infomercial is so full of crap, I am literally in shock here | Aug 01 2008 20:24 (UTC) |
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Since when are infomercials NOT full of crap? I've never bought Si6, but I've bought DVD's along the same lines, like The Firm, etc. But here's the thing, the marketing preys on the people who are just starting out, aren't naturally athletic, or who haven't studied/read/researched fitness. These DVDs are actually a good workout. They're not going to build muscle, but they'll make you stronger if you're at a fairly low starting point. That being said, I think I've figured out what the infomercials mean by "get that long, lean, sculpted look of a dancer". They actually mean that you're going to lose muscle! Sure, you'll see more muscle because you're losing body fat, but you're also going to lose muscle, therefore causing you to look "leaner" and not get "bulky". I'm not saying dancers aren't strong - they have to be to do some of those jumps and holds - but they don't have much muscle on them. They look delicate because they naturally have a slim body type and they don't have much muscle (again, talking weight, not strength). Now, for some women, that's what they want. They want to look like an anorexic twig. Personally, I like looking strong and being strong. I don't ever want to be targeted as weak or vulnerable because I look delicate. I don't think I could ever look delicate anyway, no matter how much weight I lost . . . but that's beside the point. And the "traditional weight routines make you bulky" is obviously crap, but relative to an anorexic twig, I AM "bulky" and proud of it!! |
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| Fitness | Anyone read The New Rules of Lifting for Women by Lou Schuler? | Jul 22 2008 21:32 (UTC) |
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I'm following the program right now. I'm still in stage 1, but so far I'm really liking it. It's challenging, but he gives a lot of good advice and good descriptions of proper form with pictures. I'm not really following the diet plan all that closely, but I do try to follow the calorie guidelines and basic principles of 5-6 meals per day with about .8g of protein per lb of bodyweight per day. What's really great for me is the scheduled workout plans that get progressively more challenging and offer quite a bit of variety. Each workout packs a lot of punch into a fairly short amount of time. As far as how I've progressed, I've only been following it for about 4 weeks, so not a ton to report yet, but my husband has noticed more definition in my arms and I'm lifting heavier weights than I was at the start, so I think I'm on the right track. A lot of people on this site promote the same exercise and diet principles that Schuler talks about, and Schuler seems to have a lot of scientific studies and evidence to support his opinions as well. I think it's a pretty good program overall. Do you have any specific questions that I can help answer? |
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| Maintaining | Listening to your body? | Jul 22 2008 01:34 (UTC) |
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gi-jane: I totally agree with you on this one. In the past, I have always eaten three meals a day. As part of a new workout and healthy eating plan, I am now eating 5 - 6 small meals a day. At first it was very hard to do. I didn't feel hungry at my snack times and then I would want to eat a lot more at my regular meal times than I should. However, over the last few months my appetite and habits have changed. I now feel full much faster and hungry more frequently. So, now I can listen to my body more and (assuming I am making healthy choices) eat without worrying about calories. I don't know if this is an accurate representation of what is actually happening, but it feels like over time my stomach will grow or shrink based on what and how I eat. So if you have a problem undereating, you may need to force yourself to eat even when you're not hungry in order to make your calorie goals and then over time your stomach will "stretch" (not really but it feels like it) and your body will get used to eating more. For people who have a problem with overeating, the reverse is true. I don't think that you can listen to your body when your body is so used to doing something unhealthy. Once you get into a healthy habit, THEN you can stop planning your meals so closely, but until then you will just fall back into your old habits. |
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| Fitness | Ladies, get off the machines!!! | Jul 17 2008 17:46 (UTC) |
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Original Post by rnjt: HA!! I think that's the funniest thing I've heard all day (okay, it's the morning, but still). I don't go to a gym anymore (I use free weights at home) but in college the girls really were just clones of each other. They all walked on the treadmill, maybe jogged a little, sat on a couple of machines in the weight room while giggling at the narcissistic college boys, then went into the yoga class and wondered why they were still getting a beer gut. It probably didn't help that many of them were in fact drinking most nights, but that's a story for another day. What I couldn't figure out was why they even bothered. They probably got more exercise just walking around campus and then they wouldn't have to deal with the sweaty boy stench! |
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| Fitness | Whey protein powders for women . . . planning on starting the New Rules of Lifting for Women program and I need protein advice! | Jul 08 2008 17:48 (UTC) |
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Thanks Everyone! I really appreciate the feedback. I will definitely try out a couple of these to see which one I like best. Melkor - can you explain this: "When having a protein shake pre-workout increases blood flow and muscular protein synthesis by 200% compared to having the same shake post-workout this difference becomes markedly less useful. What is the benefit of adding casein (and what exactly is it, other than a different type of protein)? I'm planning on having a small pre-workout shake and then adding protein to my breakfast as well (cereal or yogurt usually). I usually work out first thing in the morning, so my pre-workout shake would really be more like my breakfast and my breakfast would be more like a morning snack, but still pretty early in the day. |
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| Fitness | Stairs (help) !!!!!!! | May 20 2008 17:36 (UTC) |
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Stairs are fabulous exercise! Start off just walking up and down and slowly work your way up to faster speeds. You might even break it up into smaller sets to start off with, so that you're only doing 5 flights in a set (for example). I get really addicted to stair workouts - there are lots of things that you can do! As you get better try:
You might even try working in some of these for just a flight or two now. As you get better, you'll be able to go faster and do more flights of stairs, and it will start to be a lot of fun (trust me)! Oh, and don't listen to your hubby. You'll get there! |
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| Fitness | ABS - New Question (Can't Find on Search) | May 16 2008 00:06 (UTC) |
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I like weighted side bends. You basically stand up straight, feet hip width or so apart, hold a dumbell in one hand and lower the dumbell towards your knee a few inches, then raise it back up. You want to keep your shoulders in line with your hips (meaning don't twist your torso) and knees just slightly bent. It doesn't take a ton of weight to feel the contraction, so start off easy until you find the right level of intensity. Also, you might not "max-out" the muscles while you're doing the exercise (a good thing since you use your abs for everything), but the first few times that you do it you should feel sore the next day. |
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| Fitness | Toning belts | May 14 2008 23:50 (UTC) |
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im_a_cc - I am so sorry that you thought I was calling you an alcoholic! Apparently I'm not as funny as I thought! In any case - I understand that strength training is not only beneficial, but essential to weight loss if you're trying to maintain muscle mass. However, my point was simply that I think that regardless of any gains that you have made, you've probably "outgrown" the toning belt. That is to say, if you're not happy with the results, it's probably because the belt is not an efficient or effective means of strengthening your abs. I admit that I have not used one of these belts, but I find it hard to believe that they provide a significant benefit - if they did everyone would be using them and they wouldn't be scoffed at (body builders would put up with the highest intensity possible if it meant that they could gain muscle faster). My personal impression which is not based on any facts that I can reference, is that you need to start really exercising, eating in a calorie deficit, and losing fat to see improvement. So to answer your question - I have no idea if you're using the toning belt correctly, but you might consider changing your routine and doing something completely different to aid in your fat loss/muscle gain goals. |
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| Fitness | lots of reps less weight?? | May 14 2008 21:17 (UTC) |
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I don't have the best answer to this, so I'll let someone like melkor, iamme, floggingsully, or spirochete explain it, but I do have a question for you . . . Since you asked all men (I'm taking "guys" to mean that they are in fact all male), do you think that it could be that they don't want to see a GIRL lift as much weight as they can (or even close)? I'm not a bodybuilder and compared to many, I'm not even all that strong, but I DO lift wieghts as heavy as I can for 3 sets of 6 - 12 reps. I am NOT bulky. It takes a really long time and a lot of effort to get bulky (think fitness model or figure competitor) ESPECIALLY if you're a woman. By lifting heavy (for you) you get a much better workout in less time. Here's a site to check out: http://stumptuous.com/cms/index.php |
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| Fitness | Toning belts | May 14 2008 20:59 (UTC) |
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I think what everyone is trying to say is that you need to get off the juice (hee hee) and try doing some real exercise. It will be a much more efficient use of your time. You don't need to do a bunch of sit-ups either, you can do lunges, squats, planks, etc. instead. Also, you'll read in about a zillion other posts that the only way to really see your abs is to drop your body fat%. I seriously doubt that this toning belt is helping you do that. |
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| Fitness | Victoria's Secret revolutionizes fitness | May 14 2008 18:55 (UTC) |
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I actually use the yoga toes and love them. I do spend a lot of time in heels because I work in an office and I've found that the yoga toes really help stretch out my feet. I doubt that they do all that they claim to do (read: fix hammer toes and bunions and plantar fasciatis, etc.) but to me they feel really good. I sometimes get sore muscles in the arches of my feet from running or jumping rope and the yoga toes always feel like a good stretch. I just tried moving my big toe out and back and I couldn't do it without lifting up all my other toes or moving my foot a little bit. I think I'm starting to get bunions as well, so I'll try doing that too. It can't hurt right? |
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| Fitness | stuck a thumbtack through wrist, what upper body exercises can i do | May 14 2008 18:24 (UTC) |
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Ouch! |
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| foodietootie added mtxenoel as a friend | |
| foodietootie added lilygirl1970 as a friend | |
| laughingcat2 added mlh37 as a friend | |
| New journal post I will not get sick, I will not get sick... by bsh0611 19:04 |
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| New journal post Been a long couple of months by teresa_gabes_mom 19:00 |
