Forum Topic Date Replies
Motivation You KNOW you're obsessed about weight loss when: Aug 25 2008
18:16 (UTC)
4
Original Post by marceleric:

 Ok, Safiyah...I think I peed myself laughing.  Iwonder if I weigh less now....hmmm.

 See, now that's my point.  Sure you lose some kind of weight simply because the pee itself carries weight.  But isn't laughter exercise?  Especially the kind of laughter where you pee yourself.   So my twisted mind would be wondering if the laughter would cause me to gain muscle?

LOL, I know it sounds crazy, but I figured if my own mind makes me laugh then maybe it'll cheer up others.  So I'm glad I made you laugh, but I'm sorry that I made you have to change your undies.  Laughing

Safiyah

Weight Loss COMMITTED LOSERS [Group Open Again!] Aug 22 2008
20:41 (UTC)
403

Oh forgive me, it's been WAY too long since I've been here.  (man that sounds an awful lot like the beginning of a confession...)

So far I've lost 20.2 pounds, I'm sitting at 179.8, and now I'm starting on the NEXT 20 pounds.   I figure if I break it down it'll be a little easier.  Then again maybe that's just me fooling myself into staying motivated.  I've been averaging 2-3 pounds lost a week.  Not a bad average, but it's been steady, which really rocks.  What's more, I've been losing inches as well.  Yahoo!

Group name.  I like "Committed Losers", or maybe just "The Losers"  or something like "Revenge of the Losers"  (instead of Revenge of the Nerds...)

Safiyah...

Motivation You KNOW you're obsessed about weight loss when: Aug 22 2008
17:35 (UTC)
6

Ok guys, today was my weigh in for my challenge, and I found myself laughing at myself again today.  (Does laughing count as exercise?)  I went to the bathroom, weighed myself, didn't like the number, jumped back in bed cause I knew I wasn't REALLY done peeing, I know my body too well.  Sure enough, 15 minutes later I have to go again, I pee AGAIN, go to the scales and weigh.  This time I liked the number so much better.  179.8  Cool.

Well before I could take a shower and get ready I had to go poo.  Yippee!!!  This is great!   I'm all excited BEFORE I even go, and it was what I call a "good, solid poop"  (lol, I can NOT believe myself sometimes)  and went rushing back to the scales.  I fully expected to see a lower number, just from the size of the poop.  Instead I was SHOCKED to see 180.6.  WHAT????  Oh no, I'm taking the lower number, I like that one better.

But then I found myself wondering if the straining to poop caused me to build .8 lbs of muscles in 15 minutes.  LOL, am I nuts or what?  I mean logically it doesn't make sense but all the same I told myself "no more straining." 

Goofball, that's me.  But I'm a 179.8 pound goofball, thank you so much!

Safiyah

Weight Loss ***50-70 lbs. to Lose Club!*** Aug 22 2008
17:28 (UTC)
25

Starting Weight: 200 lbs

Goal Weight: 115 lbs

Last Week: 182 lbs

Current Weight: 179.8 lbs

Weight Remaining Until Goal:64.8

Total Weight Lost in This Challenge: 20.2 lbs

Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 22 2008
17:16 (UTC)
26
Original Post by olivia77:

I'm in for pushups or something like that......  what about at least 100 oz of water and two servings of veggies/fruit every day? 

 I already drink at least 100 oz of water a day, and I eat alot of fruit (always eat 2 apples every day) but maybe I'll try to increase the water to 130 or something... just to see if I can do it without my eyeballs swimming.  I already go to the bathroom every half hour or so at work.  I've threatened to move my desk in there.  (wouldn't THAT be a riot!  "Can you hold so I can flush, please?" lol!)

I'd love to do the situp challenge, but with my FMS hurting, I haven't been doing any of my strength training.  It's been really, really rough this week.  So we'll see if I can do any, let alone a whole bunch.  I think a good challenge would be counting steps, maybe we can do that in the winter or something, when it's cold, which would really make it a challenge....

Safiyah

Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 22 2008
17:10 (UTC)
27
  • August 1: 188.2 lbs (down 4 lbs from last Friday)
  • August 8: 186.0 lbs
  • August 15: 182.0 lbs 
  • August 22: 179.8 lbs
  • August 29:
  • Total lost: 8.4 lbs in August, 20.2 lbs total   
    • Height: 5' 6.5"
    • Bust: 43
    • Chest: 35 
    • Waist: 36.5 (-.5" from last week)
    • Hips: 40 (- 1 " from last week, FINALLY!!!) 
    • Midway: 39 (-1" from last week)
    • Thighs: 22 (- .5" from last week) 
    • Knees: 16  
    • Calves:   14 (-1" from last week)
    • Upper Arm: 12 (-.5" from last week 
    • Forearms: 10
  • Ok guys, here's my stats for the week.  I finally, FINALLY lost an inch in my hips!  Yes!  I thought I was gonna be stuck at 41 inches forever.   And wonder upon wonders, guys are hitting on me, some hottie hit on me this morning, and made my day.  He's probably way too young, but I'll take the compliment.  What is it about overweight people that they seem invisible?  Is it because nobody wants to talk to an overweight person or was it just because I didn't want to talk to anyone because I felt fat?  I don't know, but I'm almost ashamed that the 'new' attention is pleasing me so much.  Almost.  He really was gorgeous... 

    Anyways, I didn't do the challenge this week, my FMS is kicking my butt, so I haven't been doing much besides walking.  *sigh*  maybe next week.

    Safiyah

    Games & Challenges September Weight Loss Challenge ((CLOSED TO NEW MEMBERS)) Aug 21 2008
    12:45 (UTC)
    82

    Woohoo!  I'm so excited!

    Thank you for this!

    Safiyah

    Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 20 2008
    23:07 (UTC)
    46
    Original Post by tigzy:

    Safiyah - its my turn to gloat!

    I GOT INTO MY OLD SKINNY JEANS THIS MORNING!!!!

    i cant remember if they're a UK size 8 or 10, not really bothered lol all i know is that i havent been able to wear them for AGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    oh lol, and my cheekbones seem to have surfaced through the chubbiness of my face :)

    so i celebrated with a veggie delight sub (yes a footlong and 500cals which replaced lunch and all my mid morning snacks) and OMG it was the best tasting thing i have eaten in weeks!!!

    eaten really well this week - tons and tons of veg and fruit, and no puddings which has been rather surprising. went swimming last night too and im doing lots of walking today so im all set for a great result this friday :)

     YAAAAYYY!!!!  *happy dance*  Good for you!  You rock, doesn't that feel AMAZING?

    I had someone ask me today if I was losing weight.  MAN that feels good!

    Safiyah

    Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 19 2008
    12:16 (UTC)
    54

    Yaaaay Tigzy!  That's wonderful news!

    Safiyah

    Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 18 2008
    20:33 (UTC)
    59

    Thanks, puppykisses.  I reached the 20 pounds lost mark today.  I'm so thrilled, and even though I want to tell the world, I know the world really doesn't want to hear it.  So guess what?  Y'all get to hear it. 

    I weighed in just under 179.  I'm losing at a steady rate and I couldn't be happier.  So don't you fret, puppykisses.  You WILL get there, just take it one day at a time and you WILL get there.  I know you can do it.

    Safiyah

    Motivation You KNOW you're obsessed about weight loss when: Aug 18 2008
    20:29 (UTC)
    12

    Ok, I've got a new obsession, lol.  I hit the 20 pounds lost mark today, and even though I still have a ways to go, I feel this overwhelming urge to tell everyone.

    I was walking to the library and some guy hit on me.  Now for me, this is a new thing, so I'm still getting used to it.  I am still trying to figure out what to say. 

    So here I am, walking along, library bag on my arm, munching on a BIG apple (which I love.)  And this guys says "Are you enjoying that?" 

    My first thought, my very first thought was to pipe up and share with him that those apples have helped me lose 20 pounds.  I didn't, but only barely.  "He doesn't need to know that goofy."  I kept telling myself.  I went shopping and the lady asked me, "How're you doin?"

    "20 pounds lighter, thank you so much!" 

    Lol, these people don't care, they don't need to know that, I know this, and I respect it.  But unfortunately, not only did I lose 20 pounds, I also seem to have a serious malfunction between the thinking part of my brain and the speaking part of my mouth. 

    Lol.  Aren't we goofy?  Tigzy, I've done the weight at night then the next morning thing, but then I can't sleep.  Every time I get up to go pee I want to weigh myself.  I had to move my scales in the kitchen, on the OTHER side of the apartment to stop it.

    Safiyah

     

    Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 18 2008
    20:21 (UTC)
    61

    I'm in Tigzy!

    Safiyah

    Motivation You KNOW you're obsessed about weight loss when: Aug 18 2008
    16:00 (UTC)
    15

    I have to stick with 25-35 grams of fiber or I won't go at all.  I drink over 130 ounces of water every day.  I just eat a low residue diet, that's just how I eat.  It's not intentional, but when my body is done with the food there's very little, if anything, left.

    I'm ok with it, I've found that for all my obsessing about my poo (or lack thereof) I'm still losing at a pretty steady rate.  About .6 lbs a day.  Not bad, really, and that helps.  I've been here since July 11, and I've lost 20 pounds already.

    Not bad.

    Safiyah

    Motivation You KNOW you're obsessed about weight loss when: Aug 18 2008
    15:13 (UTC)
    17
    Original Post by sujihime:

    Oh man, I get so excited when I have a "movement".  I always proudly tell my husband.  He just rolls his eyes.  But I went through a 3 month period of very few "movements" and it made it difficult to lose weight.  Now that I seem to  be a "everyday at 9:30 person" I have been losing weight more consistently.

    I would be lying if I didn't admit to doing the poo dance every now and again.  You just feel so light and frisky.  Fortunately, I'm usually at work so I can't weight before and after to see the difference.  Heh.

     I still get so excited after a BM, but usually only when it's a really BIG BM.  Gross I know, but I always have to check to see what was deposited before I flush and if it's huge, I get excited and the first thing out of my mouth is "That's gonna take ALOT of weight off me!" LOL

    What a disgusting subject but it's true.  I HATE those toilets with the automatic flushes.  I have yet to figure out how to get up and see before it flushes.  Yell

    What a disgusting obsession.   I've learned from the doctor that most of the foods I eat are low residue so I don't go really regularly, but when I do go it's a doozy.  And I love the scales the next day lol!  So yeah, I STILL do the "poo poo dance" even at work.

    Safiyah

    Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 17 2008
    21:55 (UTC)
    64

    Ok, guys, I just posted a new pic of me in my new skinny jeans.  it amazes me that I fit into 11/12's when I'm still 180 pounds, but I'll take it.  So tell me, what do y'all think?

    Does it sound like I'm fishing for compliments?  Lol, well maybe I am, but I'm just SO thrilled.  It's good to live next door to a thrift store, I can get a "new" pair of jeans every once in a while as I lose weight. 

    The thing that amazes me is as I look through the pics in my profile and compare the pics of me when I was 200 to now, I'm amazed at my progress.  It's really motivating for me. 

    Ok, I'm done fishing... lol  Sorry if I'm outta line.

    Safiyah

    New Members How do I become friends with my wife? Aug 17 2008
    14:08 (UTC)
    4
    Original Post by tsanford:

    WOW.  I'm touched by the concern shown by people in this online community Laughing

    So, now that I'm "friends" with my wife, I'd like to show her mine, if she shows me hers.  I'm speaking of Calorie-Count Food Logs (of course).  Since we eat a lot of the same food each day, it would be really nice to add or tag some of her food items for myself rather than re-entering everything (and viseversa).

    Anyone know how to do that?

     There's a forum on here specifically for suggestions.  Perhaps you could go there and suggest this? I certainly love the idea of being able to choose whether or not to share my tagged items with those on my friends list, and I'd love to have the option of sharing my daily food log for someone who wants to see it. 

    Safiyah

    Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 17 2008
    13:12 (UTC)
    67

    ka2007 That's great news!  I know you were pretty frustrated, I'm thrilled to know that things are moving again.  Yay!

    Safiyah

    Health & Support No energy....... Aug 17 2008
    02:50 (UTC)
    1
    Original Post by april26:

    I just  seem to have no energy at all.   When I've had a long hard day at work I am getting to the point where I skip the gym.  Does anyone have any suggestions for boosting energy??

    I had a long talk with my doctor about this, also.  I mentioned to him that I just seemed so tired all the time.  He said to me that this is one of the reasons why it's suggested to lose no more than 1-2 pounds a week, because if you lose much more than that, you're depriving your body of necessary energy.  So he suggested I eat a little more, and stick with the 500 calorie deficit as opposed to the 750 calorie deficit, and suggested that maybe that would help my energy levels.

    Makes sense, and so far it seems to be working.   Anyways, just a thought.

    Safiyah

     

    New Members How do I become friends with my wife? Aug 17 2008
    02:47 (UTC)
    6
    Original Post by starcrossdlovex:

    haha before I noticed what forum this was posted in, I definitely was thinking "... shouldn't you have become friends with her BEFORE you married her...?"
    Glad to see I wasn't alone in that haha =]

     LOL That's exactly what I thought as well.  "Well it's a little late to be asking this isn't it?"  Glad it was nothing of the sort!

    Safiyah

    Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 17 2008
    02:30 (UTC)
    69

    It's hard to believe that I've lost over 18 pounds in a little over a month.   It's mind blowing.  But I'm determined to lose the weight.  My shape has changed dramatically, I've gone from a size 16 to a 10-12.  BIG changes there.  My waist is almost the exact same in circumference as my chest. 

    Today I wore a pair of low-rise 11/12's to work, and they're almost too big.  ALMOST! 

    The only place that hasn't really budged is my hips.  I know that will eventually go down, too, but I'm feeling just a bit impatient with things.  So long as I'm moving in the right direction, I'm ok.  Olivia77, 164.2 ROCKS baby, that's fantastic!!!

    Paul, I'm glad that you have done so well the past week,  I'm thrilled for you, truly, but my integrity wouldn't be worth squat if I didn't mention that I'm a bit concerned about your not having solid food for so long.  Just don't do it for too much longer, ok?  I realize you want to reach your goal, but the key here is healthy eating.  The key to success is a total lifestyle change, not fad diets.    Please don't be offended with my words, I just felt the need to say something.

    Have a good time the next few weeks, we look forward to hearing about your progress the next time we speak.

    Safiyah

    Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 15 2008
    23:20 (UTC)
    75
  • August 1: 188.2 lbs (down 4 lbs from last Friday)
  • August 8: 186.0 lbs
  • August 15: 182.0 lbs 
  • August 22:
  • August 29:
  • Total lost:    6.2 Lbs so far
    • Height: 5' 6.5"
    • Bust: 43
    • Chest: 36 
    • Waist: 37 (-.5" from last week)
    • Hips: 41  
    • Midway: 40 (-1" from last week)
    • Thighs: 22.5 (- .5" from last week) 
    • Knees: 16  
    • Calves:   14 (-1" from last week)
    • Upper Arm: 12.5 (-.5" from last week 
    • Forearms: 10

    Not bad for a week.  I am a bit frustrated with my hips though, I'm not losing anything there, dangit.  On the bright side, my colonoscopy biopsies came back all clean.  Looks like my biggest health problems are Fibromyalgia syndrome, IBS and lactose intolerance.  Ok, that I can handle.  I'm pretty happy with the results.

    Safiyah 

    Recipes George Foreman Grill receipes Aug 14 2008
    16:32 (UTC)

    I LOVE my George Foreman Grill!  I use it every day!  Of course I cook chicken breasts and turkey burgers, but I also use it for bacon and grilled veggies.  The other night I had grilled eggplant.  oh YUM!  But you can also cook zuccini, squash, even tomato and onion slices. 

    If I overcook my meat it's dry, but I just have to watch the timing.   I do thaw it out before hand, and usually 'marinate' my chicken in garlic and maybe some Mrs Dash, and that's about it.  Sometimes I use a prepared marinade like Emeril's or something.  Either way, it's still delicious, and it's much better than using the oven or stove. (Doesn't heat up my kitchen)

    I've also used it in the past for grilled cheese sandwiches and other things.  You can use it like a panini if you want, all kinds of stuff!  There's really no limit to the foods you can cook on it.  (Except maybe eggs, lol.)

    Tonight I'm having lemon pepper chicken, wild rice and grilled tomatos and onions and garlic chips.  All of which will be cooked on the GF grill.  I have sugar free white chocolate pudding for desert.

      The trick I use is to take the frozen chicken breast out of the freezer, place it in a container along with the marinade/spices and leave it in the fridge for the day while I'm at work.  When I get home from work, the chicken is thawed AND marinated and all I need to do is pop it on the grill for a few minutes, followed by whatever veggies I'm cooking...  Yum!

    Another one of my favorites is garlic chips.  The grill is perfect for these, especially if you use elephant garlic.

    The Lounge I need help.. TRO. Aug 11 2008
    19:03 (UTC)
    7

    Not only should you get the TRO (and possibly the personal protection order) but the next time he confronts you like that (and EVERY TIME) you should file a police report.  It needs to be on record.  Sooner or later he'll get tired of abusing you and move on to the next person.  Your taking the time now to document what kind of person he is will help protect the next woman to come along.

    Not to mention, the TRO is useless if you don't follow through.  Granted it IS just a piece of paper, but eventually, if he keeps this crap up, he'll end up doing jail time. 

    Safiyah

    Fitness shin splits Aug 11 2008
    17:54 (UTC)
    4

    Mine came from my shoes.  Once I invested in a better pair of shoes (and began wearing them) the pain went away.

    Safiyah

    The Lounge Are All Women Sexist? Aug 11 2008
    17:10 (UTC)
    9
    Original Post by moonikins:

    Hi Safiya.  Yes I was including alcohol. And it is the most prevalent. I think we're on a slightly different page on what I meant by catalyst. I was using it not as the original incident that caused the person to become an abuser. That would definitely be the person's upbringing. I meant it is easier for someone who is drunk/high to lose control and be physically abusive.

    My ex was not physically abusive at all. He was verbally and emotionally abusive. It was always easier for him to say nasty things and threaten me emotionally or financially when he was drunk. He didn't have to be drunk to do these things.

     This must be my day for brain farts.  Will have to turn up the fans to dissipate the smell, lol.  Now that you point this out, I guess I should have realized that.  I know what a catalyst is, and it SHOULD have been clear to me.  My fault.  And yes, you and I agree on this point.  Sorry about that.

    *shaking my head at myself* 

    Safiyah

    Games & Challenges August Weight Loss Challenge - GROUP CLOSED Aug 11 2008
    17:08 (UTC)
    107
    Original Post by paul_y:

    I'm affraid to say Cherry Juice is a bit to hard to come by out in the Iraqi desert Safiyah :) although I'll try and remember it when back home (having said that, not to sure how easy it'd be to find in the UK).

    Glad to say I had a miracle recovery over night somehow, drugged myself up and strapped a small ice pack to my ankle and when I woke up this morning I was totally fine, was freaky how I made my way to bed on cruches and then 8 hours later was fully recovered, but then apparently that can be common with gout.

    Now the wise move would be to lay up for 1 more day to make sure I'm fully recovered, but hang that, it's gone 5pm here so I'm signing out to go hit the gym, here's to wishing the rest of you a speedy recovery.

     

     LOL, oh for Pete's sake, why can't I remember you're out in the middle of the desert?  Sorry, my mind apparently can only handle so much information at once.  But once you get home, remember fresh cherries and strawberries will do also.  But you'd have to eat a ton of them.  (oh the things we put our bodies through).  I'm glad it went away, please be careful!

    Safiyah

    The Lounge Are All Women Sexist? Aug 11 2008
    17:03 (UTC)
    11
    Original Post by moonikins:

    Neither Anndjoe nor I said that ALL abusers are victims of abuse themselves.  I DO believe that is the case where MOST of them are concerned, but not all of them.  Just because they don't admit to prior abuse (of which there are many forms) doesn't mean they weren't abused.  I agree that drugs CAN play a part, but I don't think it plays a LARGE part.  We disagree on that one.  Anndjoe said 'usually' and I agree with that. 

    I believe that substance abuse is often a catalyst for abuse. Someone who is abusing any chemical substance does not have the judgment of someone who is sober. The substance can make it much easier for the abuser to lose control and commit the abuse.

     I agree that it can be.  Maybe with the 'popularity' of meth things are changing, but I don't think substance abuse is the catalyst in most cases. 

    ****EDIT**** I DO think that people who are already 'inclined' to become abusers are much more likely to abuse if they're also on drugs or alcohol.  But just because someone abuses drugs (or alcohol) doesn't mean they're going to become abusers of people as well. ****end edit****

    Mind you I think alcohol is the biggest catalyst where substances are concerned, not sure if you're including that when you say "substance abuse." 

    But after all the people I've talked to who were abused, in most of those cases substance abuse was not even in the picture.  From all the research I've done personally (while healing from my own baggage) substance abuse (mainly alcohol) was also not the catalyst in the majority of the cases.  In most cases the 'catalyst' was the abusers own upbringing. 

    That's not to say that's the case in every situation because it's not.  Unfortunately where abuse is concerned there are exceptions to every rule.

    Safiyah

    The Lounge Are All Women Sexist? Aug 11 2008
    16:57 (UTC)
    12
    Original Post by m0m6:

     Maybe some females see something they don't like about themselves in others, or just go along with the crowd when it comes to raggin' on people.

     I think you have a point here.  Unfortunately this is far too common in society in general.  The one thing that always pops up in my head when someone attacks me verbally is the fact that more often than not, they're not really talking to me, they're talking to themselves.  I've never been one to go along with the crowd, I just don't understand that one.

    Safiyah

    The Lounge Are All Women Sexist? Aug 11 2008
    16:55 (UTC)
    14
    Original Post by pgeorgian:

    safiyah, it's just that we've had that discussion here many times before.  you're right, it is an emotional issue for me, and it's one in which i am easily played.  so i wanted to make a statement right up front that i wasn't going to get drawn into it again.  but as i've said before, i don't think all, most, or even many men are violent.  i think it's a small minority.

     I figured as much, thanks for clarifying for me.  Ok then, I understand where you're coming from, and I respect your point of view.  Regarding the small minority, we agree there.  I'm glad you didn't take my response personally, I wasn't aware of how many times this issue has come up here.  I know there are people coming and going all the time, so the newer people like me may not have experienced the prior arguments.

    Safiyah

    The Lounge Are All Women Sexist? Aug 11 2008
    16:52 (UTC)
    15
    Original Post by m0m6:

    Original Post by safiyah1:

    Original Post by anndjoe:

    You also usually find that the abuser is in fact a victim also of abuse at some point in their life.

    I am not saying that this is an acceptable reason for abuse of any kind, but what I am saying is both the victim and the abuser need help.

    Not really much to do with anything but just wanted to say it Smile

     Anndjoe: 

    And your comment about usually finding out that the abuser is in fact a victim of abuse at some point in their life, well that one I definitely agree with.  As a matter of fact, that's what really helped me to forgive my own abuser, was to find out, finally, what HIS childhood was like.  MUCH worse than I ever experienced. 

    No, it didn't excuse his behaviour, not by a long shot.  But I understood better why he was the way he was, and for that reason was able to forgive him and let that baggage go. 

    I still don't speak with him, but that's just because I'd rather not put myself in that position again.  Forgiveness doesn't mean becoming (or continuing to become) a doormat.  It just means letting go of the anger/pain/etc you feel inside.  It's more for our own benefit than for the person we're forgiving.

    Anyways, just wanted to say I think you made a good point and I agree with you.

    Safiyah

     Unfortunately, the abuser was a victim theory isn't the case with all abusers. I know a male who had a very loving, supportive family structure. He had a stellar high school  sports career, earned a 2 year scholarship to collage, had a  loving marriage and a wonderful child. His problem was meth. Once he got on that crap, everything went to pot. Wife left him, and then he started dating my sister. They moved almost 500 miles away, and a month later he started to beat the crap out of her. We don't know if he did anything to my nephew, he doesn't remember too much about that time.

    Substance abuse plays a large part in domestic abuse. I'd love to have some reason as to why this guy hurt my sister so much, but he was just some pathetic junkie who got his jollies by knocking my sis out.

     m0m6:

    Neither Anndjoe nor I said that ALL abusers are victims of abuse themselves.  I DO believe that is the case where MOST of them are concerned, but not all of them.  Just because they don't admit to prior abuse (of which there are many forms) doesn't mean they weren't abused.  I agree that drugs CAN play a part, but I don't think it plays a LARGE part.  We disagree on that one.  Anndjoe said 'usually' and I agree with that. 

    Safiyah

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