LOCKED TOPIC

Christians.....I have a Question?

OK, first let me put you in my picture.....

I was raised as a Christian until I was fourteen when I decided after some considerable thought that I no longer wanted to be a part of something that was and is in my eyes so hypocritical. As I sat there on my last ever day in church half listening to the apparent glory that is god, and looking at the people around me I just couldn't get it out of my head "what a bunch of hypocrites"! with their big flashy cars, posh houses, bragging about what they bought last week and how much it cost, standing outside damning them down the road for the way they live, what they wear etc. You do something bad, go to confession and tell a bloke who wasn't even there that you are sorry, he gives you 2 Hail-Marys and an Our Father and your saved....I'm not buying it.

What makes me laugh is that those who say they believe in god, think that that makes them a good person....why? I don't believe in god and I'm a much nicer person than some devout christains I know.

What makes you think that because you tell some person at your church that you are sorry for somethings that you are automatically saved?

How many of you can say in all honesty that you don't repeatedly break one or more of the.....

SEVEN DEADLY SINS (CARDINAL) for those not sure what they are (in short)....

1. Lust...excessive sexual desires.
2. Gluttony....over consumption of anything to the point of waste.
3. Greed....acquisition of wealth, anything obtained by disloyalty, betrayal. for personal gain.
4. Sloth...sin of sadness/despair, apathy, depression, failure to utilize ones talents/gifts.
5. Wrath...hatred, anger, denial of the truth to others/self, revenge, spite.
6. Envy...the desire to have something someone else has, to deny that person of having it because you want it.
7. Pride...the most deadly of all because it is the ultimate source from which all the others arise from. Excessive love of self!

It is these 7 things that turned me away, because nearly every single person in that church that day committed at least one of these on a daily basis, but that's OK because they confess to them every week....or do they? Then go out and do it all over again.

What is it that makes you believe that you can repeatedly commit these Deadly Sins and be continually forgiven for them, but the rest of us are damned?

*NOTE* This is an open topic for those for and against, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that opinion although open for debate must at all times be respected. Thank you.

I was just saying that in my experience, one of the most incredible things about my faith is being a part of something so much bigger than myself, and realizing how small and unimportant I am.  It's incredibly freeing.  

Just FYI: In the Protestant faith, being baptized isn't even essential.  I became a Christian about four years ago, and I was just baptized about a year ago.  It's more of a celebration, really - just a way of publicly declaring your faith.  It's simply symbolic.

ahh i have a love hate relationship with this thread.

i was going to leave this thread alone--it's so full of anger  but I had to add one things......

1. There is a difference between religion and a relationship between God. A religion tells a person what they can & can't do while they belong to that group of people....

2. There are also people that have a relationship with God & may not belong to a church but some may belong to a church---A relationship is just between that person & God--no persons relationship is the same...I have a relationship with God and sometimes that religion stuff  I have to agree with some of the things you all are talking about --just is crazy! Just my two cents!

ignayshus... It hasn't been deleted because there is no reason to, it would appear to me having just read everything that everyone is having fun splashing around together and having a healthy debate about a very debatable topic.

I don't have time to join in at the moment and answer some more replies, but I will get around to it.....just in from work you know what it's like.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

didja have fun last night schnood?

;)

hahaha oh gosh. um well. i have not drank a drop for months and we had some friends over, a bottle of admiral nelsons, and well, things got exciting.

Original Post by spirochete:

I know very good people of many different religions, and I know very good people with absolutely no religion at all. I think faith is a wonderful, beautiful thing but most Christians I know aren't about faith. They are about hedging their bets and being what I call "cookbook Christians" who do things just in case.

Amen to that!

Original Post by anndjoe:

 

1. Lust...excessive sexual desires.

i break this one SOOO much. but, really, i can't control it. I don't understand how God would think i can. i can control my actions (and i do) but not my thoughts.

I don't think anybody can say they've never committed one of the 'seven deadly sins'. That's why we're praying. What would be the point of going to church if we didn't have any sins to speak of?

I really had intended to jump back on here and see how the debate was going, but life got in the way.

If you really want a good explanation of Christianity without a lot of "religious" baggage, I highly reccomend reading C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity.

He explains the faith much better than I ever could.

Thanks for bringing up a great question. I am new to this website and couldn't resist joining the fun!

I don't understand Christianity...

I was watching a pastor on TV who said, and I've heard many a Christian repeat this message, that works are worthless when it comes to getting into "heaven". That only through faith, not works, will you get there. That there is no reward for good works. That if in fact there WAS a reward for good works, you would be completely selfish because you'd be assumed to have done the good works for the reward. I'm sorry, but accepting Jesus as your savior getting you into heaven... isn't that doing something in order to get a reward? It's an act of mental work rather than physical... I just don't get it.

I'm damned to "hell" because I'm agnostic, even though I give of myself unconditionally. Then there are Christians who whore themselves out, drug up, and kill people... yet because they say they're sorry and ask Jesus for forgiveness, they're going to "heaven". Mmm hmm.. okay.

Other than the Bible, what proof do we have of the existance of Jesus? Or most of the things in the Bible, really. Where is the proof? I'm trying to think about it from a logical standpoint but I just don't get it.

Ladyfirelyght....totally agree with what you say, the bible is only ones mans interpretation of things. There just is no out and out proof of any of it. I read an article just this morning that questions the walking on water story on the sea of Galilee (now Lake Kinneret) that says scientists now think that parts of the Lake were frozen back then, so it could actually have been ice he walked on?

Religion can just have too many holes blow into it.

roberma....welcome to the site first, hope you are enjoying it.

I went into Wikipedia and had a glance at Mere Christianity clearly it just gives a brief out line, but from what I can gather it's based on Moral Law which takes me back to what I said earlier about conscience.

Also it said with regards to christianity that Humans cannot yearn for something that doesn't exist? and uses the comparison of Humans reflect that we naturally need water and there is substance which satisfies that need.

I realise that there is obviously much more to the book that just this, but already I see holes in it in that humans can live a long life without god but they can't live more than a few days without water (nothing can).

So in no way can the yearn for water be equal to christianity.

A religious debate is always so complicated with good arguments on either side.  I couldn't tell you how many debates me and my OH ahve had on the subject but the conclusion is that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs and I pray that they all find happiness and proof it whatever comes after this life.

I like to consider myself Christian, I went to church by choice until I was 18, I was bapised at 16 by choice and I believe that during that time God spoke to me and grew with me and is still in my heart.

But I stopped going to church at 18 because I felt judged.  I chose not to obey the "no sex before marriage" the "do not eat red meat" the "do not tatoo your body" and therefore I felt that I could not stand in front of all of those people and agree to live by the bibles words.

I believe in the bible, although it is only stories and should be taken as such, I believe the miracles, I believe that Jesus walked this world and that one day he will walk with us again.  But I believe that should he appear today he would let me buy him a pint, he'd walk with me in jeans and a t-shirt, rent a house and buy a car and encourage us all to be better, more forgiving, more understanding and charitable people.

For these reasons I am even being married in a civil ceremony.  God will be in my heart and with me on my wedding day, watching over me and guiding me through my vows.  It doesn't matter that I'm not in church.

Original Post by carrie317:

I was just saying that in my experience, one of the most incredible things about my faith is being a part of something so much bigger than myself, and realizing how small and unimportant I am.  It's incredibly freeing.   

Manyt atheists, including myself, have this same freeing experience and belief.  I think Carl Sagan said it best when pointing out that we are all made of "star stuff"  - I find it particularly freeing to know that once I was part of a star, and many years from now, I will be again.  It's also pretty awesome.

"We live on a hunk of rock and metal that circles a humdrum star that is one of 400 billion other stars that make up the Milky Way Galaxy which is one of billions of other galaxies which make up a universe which may be one of a very large number, perhaps an infinite number, of other universes. That is a perspective on human life and our culture that is well worth pondering." (Carl Sagan)

I have explored Christianity more than other religions because that is what I grew up with.  I have checked out several others. The main problem I have with most religions is the mindless fear that comes down from the churches hierarchy. IF YOU DO THIS, you'll go to hell. IF YOU DON'T DO THIS, you'll go to hell. I have seen more people who attend a religion out of fear of what will or won't happen than actual faith.

The main problem I have with Chrisitianity's doctrine that transcends demonination in particular is the concept of original sin. I was bothered by this concept from a very early age. I just can't buy that a truly loving god would create people who are worthless sinners and then create a system to save them. It just doesn't make sense.

-- a lot of sin talk all up in here --

thought I'd share another perspective on sin

"...to sin means to miss the mark, as in an archer who misses the target, so to sin means to miss the point of human existence."

-eckhart tolle

--------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- ----

*puts on very-wide-brimmed moderator hat*

I would also like to urge people participating in this discussion to express their views as much as possible without the wholesale dismissal or disparagement of millions of people who are unknown to you, to draw only valid conclusions about your personal experiences (a limited personal experience can only support a limited personal conclusion, if you get my drift), and to show respect for the views of others, especially when they disagree with yours.

Thank you to all who have done this.

Anndjoe, I saw many of the same things you mentioned in church when I used to attend in high school, and they disgusted me, too.   For example 2 of our married teachers (I attended a Christian school) ran off together one summer, leaving their respective spouses and children behind.  Also our youth pastor used church funds to pay for a ski trip in which he stayed in the same hotel room with his girlfriend (which I think scandalized church members more than him using the church funds!)  Ahh, the list goes on and on.

Then I started exploring other religions and noticing how all religions think they are "right" and everyone else is wrong.  And in the case of Christianity, they think they are the only ones going to heaven and everyone else is going to burn in hell.  I found this deeply disturbing, especially given many of the hypocrisies I had personally witnessed.  But I really think the other religion thing is what did it for me (sending me on the path to atheism). 

It is easy for a Christian to reject all other religions and laugh at them and think I cannot believe anyone would believe in Allah (for example) and vice versa.  (Not that all Christians laugh at other religions...) Isn't it odd, though, that most people subscribe to the majority religion in the place where they grew up?  Not a lot of suburban American kids who believe in Buddhism or Hinduism, etc. yet if they had grown up in India, China, or other country where that is a majority religion, that is exactly what they would be.  Yet, each believer is firmly convinced they are "right" even though it is largely nothing more than happenstance of what part of the world they were born in dictated (for the large part) what religion they are a part of.