The Chronic Overeater's Mindset and the Trap of Obesity
Okay, I post this at the risk of coming across holier-than-thou, although it's really more like "thinking out loud" than some serious topic for debate...
So, at several times in my life, I've been above 30 BMI, an at one point reached 275 lbs - 100 lbs above what I should weigh at 6'2". And I'll admit that at the time I was gaining all that weight, I didn't think I was "pigging out" all the time, but I did realize that I was eating poor quality food, and too much in general.
But I have obese acquaintances, several of whom insist that they are dieting and exercising, but whenever I do get the chance to see them eat, their choices are far from dietetic or healthful. Like Mrs. K, at my son's school - we invited her and her elementary age daughters to our kids' English play group, where we all eat lunch together - and the lunch boxes she brought - OMG - the amount of food was DOUBLE what my kids and I had, with tons of rice, and lots of fried chicken, sauteed veggies, and they ate it all. (The daughters are also obese)
There was a lady in my wife's church group back in San Francisco who also claimed to be trying to diet and exercise and yet, at the potluck buffet, even though she can barely walk due to being well over 300 lbs (and her ankles are horribly swollen), there she was picking up the fattening junk at the buffet table, time and time again.
I had one co-worker, a young guy who was nearly 300 lbs. I felt bad because even though I was fat at the time, I at least was active - I offered to loan him one of my bikes so we could go riding together. "No, I could never do that. I'm too heavy."
Again, I'm no sterling example - I lost control of my weight for several years due to depression, financial problems, general stress, midlife crisis, etc. And I was blind to how bad I was getting. I had no scale in the house for 2 years, so when I finally weighed myself at the Walgreen's and the scale said 275, I was in SHOCK.
But obviously, in some way, I had fallen into the same traps these folks were falling into.
I guess my point is that half the battle is mental. It's amazing the rationalizations and self-deceptions the obese person's mind will come up with in order to continue addictive overeating, and to avoid exercise.
It's just been a couple of years now that I've been able to pull myself out of that fog of lies and addiction.
I wish I knew better how to help others find the way out, because I remember how horrible I felt, and I don't want anyone else to have to suffer that.
[edit: changed "Obese" to "Overeater", as one need not be obese to exhibit these behaviors, and some obese people are obese for reasons more complex than just overeating.]
I know what you're saying. I think it could be any number of factors, depending on the person. I think the main one is a sense of hopelessness. The whole "if I'm going to be fat, I may as well eat stuff that tastes good".
Even now that I'm on a diet, the rare time I do go to something like a potluck or a wedding, I'll eat crappy food because it tastes good and it's treat, not a lifestyle. However, even though I'm no longer obese, I'm sure people who don't know me that well, see me eating and judge me.
Other reasons could be ignorance about healthy choices or portion size. It could be food addiction, where they know it's wrong but they can't stop themselves. It might even be something as simple as long-term bad habits that are just so ingrained that it's nearly impossible to shake for long periods.
Edit: In my own case, I have a blood sugar problem that caused me to feel miserably hungry all the time. Cinnamon has made my life bearable, but before I found that I did fall into the hopelessness category.
I kind of feel like the more I become aware of eating right the more I judge the bad eaters. I have started looking inside the shopping carts of the people in line in front of me at the store. I am shocked by what I see. The folks who have junk food in there carts rarely have any fresh produce. Today this chunky guy had a large mountain dew and low cal cottage cheese?
I think websites like this one go a long way toward giving us a needed reality check. Being able to log food, to see the calories and nutrients for each day, is a revelation. I think a lot of us have also thought "I don't eat that much..." because our culture, at least in the US, encourages us to eat a ridiculous amount. Folks from other countries who visit are always reporting their surprise at our portion sizes, and the calorie-laden foods in restaurants--there's a reason Red Robin refuses to post their nutrition info, for instance. Everyone should search online for the calorie counts of their favorite restaurant dishes and experience the amazement.
There's the mindset, too, that we ought to be able to eat anything we feel like eating, and I don't know where this comes from. There are people who seem to be able to eat unlimited amounts and not gain, but they're usually not able to do that all their lives, and there aren't that many of them. Still, there's this sense of resentment that we need to monitor and limit what we eat in order to be healthy. Similarly, many people feel they should be able to be perfectly healthy while living a largely sedentary lifestyle. Why do we think this? Daily exercise isn't optional; our bodies were designed for it and need it to function correctly.
There's a lot of self-indulgent entitlement thinking out there, yes. There's also a lot of misinformation and advertising pressure encouraging us to do the wrong things, convincing us that anything we want to do is just fine. It really isn't. Wouldn't it be great if CC+, or any and all calorie/nutrient-counting websites and programs, became the next big thing? Think of all the lives that could be saved.
I thought all was going well until I saw what my mom's idea of eating sensibly was. We had salads for dinner one night. My mom not only ate an entire bag of lettuce to herself, half a bag of shredded cheddar cheese, and quite a bit of honey French with bacon and sundried tomatoes dressing, she also had half of a bag of Tyson's frozen, seasoned fajita chicken strips in the salad. Her drink of choice was a half gallon of orange juice, followed by half a box of sugar-free moose tracks ice cream with Reeses magic shell on top.
And that was just her healthy dinner.
I figured maybe she's hungry and needed energy after all that exercise, but the next morning shocked me.
She pulled out a mixing bowl. A fairly large mixing bowl at that, and a box of Special K with red berries. She poured about a third of the box into the bowl, filled it as high as possible with milk, and sat in front of the TV to eat her breakfast.
My mom's portion controls are simply out of control, and she can't understand why she's not losing weight with or without exercise. I explained to her that she's eating way too much at a time and throughout the day. She whined that she's hungry, she likes the taste, and that she's eating healthy food.
I even went as far as to type in everything she ate on Calorie-Count, show her how many calories exactly she's eating, and how many calories she should be eating. She said it was a bunch of computer nonsense, she'll always be fat, so why not enjoy eating like a fat person.
There're times now when I question Alex's portions, like tonight. We made pasties with spinach, potato, and cheese filling, two for each of us. I was so full after eating one along with my spinach alfredo pasta that I had to wait a few minutes to drink my water, whereas Alex ate both pasties, two servings of noodles, and immediately wanted to drink his cherry cola. He's been getting excited about losing weight lately by keeping his calories relatively low compared to what he used to have, and granted what we made for dinner was pretty low in calories, but he was eating to feel full at that point.
He's aware that if he eats smaller meals throughout the day eventually his stomach will shrink down and his idea of "full" won't take nearly as much food, but he slips up from time to time. He didn't take my concern on his portion offensive and opted to go for a walk tonight rather than lounging on the sofa.
Alex is hardly obese though. For his height and weight, he's overweight, and holds most of his weight in his stomach and face (Lord, the boy has got some HOT legs). He's still concerned, especially when he saw how easily I lost weight, and that none of his jeans fit him anymore.
With his efforts at portion control, even though he likes food and wants to eat for flavour and to feel full (meaning he doesn't always choose the lower-calorie options), he's limiting himself daily, realising that food is going to be there tomorrow. Today I made him go through his jeans to see what fits and what doesn't, so they can be packed away, and all of them fit him now. He has to suck it in to get two pair buttoned, but he's still fitting into a hell of a lot more than he originally thought.
A month ago he said it's not worth it to restrict his eating. Today he was proud of himself and is anxious to try to get into those two pair with ease.
Thankfully Alex is one of those people who found the motivation to change. I wish more people could give it a chance. Do it correctly for one month, hell even two weeks and you'll feel a change. Do it incorrectly and you may be discouraged, but you may still feel a little better about yourself and be motivated to continue.
Original Post by cellulitedelight:
I'd like to offer my mom as an example. She and I were both overweight, and both determined to do something about it. We joined a gym together, and decided to eat sensibly.
I thought all was going well until I saw what my mom's idea of eating sensibly was.
How discouraging. Maybe if she let you determine her portions for her for a while, she could get a better idea of what healthy portions are? And get rid of that damn Special K and get her some All-Bran or other good high-fiber ceral with less sugar and put in REAL fruit!
I bet she'd be shocked to see my cereal bowl, since I only put ONE CUP of cereal and 1/2 cup milk and a banana -that's my whole breakfast, but yeah, I'm used to it now and it's keeps me satisfied until lunchtime - oh, and I'm 6'2", so if I can live on it, just about anyone can...
Sounds like her "salad" alone was over 2000 calories!
Looking at the content of what your mom is eating, it reminds me of yet another of the culprits - the US food corporations that have concocted all of these processed foodlike things they put in boxes, and then conditioned us to think we need to be eating. They've also conditioned us to think that cooking real food is "too hard" and that we need some thingy to stick in the microwave.
Living in Japan forced me to change those habits. There are a lot less pre-prepared foods in the markets here, and what they have is Japanese, and fairly expensive. If I want "American" food, I have to make it myself.
So I make a big bowl of salad with lettuce, spinach, broccoli, shredded carrots, cucumbers, cherry tomatoes, keep that in the fridge and it lasts a couple of days.
bake up chicken breasts, then slice thin and keep in the fridge for sandwiches so I don't have to eat salty chemical ham
And strangely enough, I don't miss the Hot Pockets/Lean Pockets and other crap I used to clip coupons for in the states. Making things myself, I don't load them with salt and sugar and cheese and grease, and I eat sensible portions.
I feel so much better and have more energy even though I'm eating a lot less calories - I really feel like I'm better-nourished now on 1600 calories than when I was eating 3000+ calories of nutrient-depleted processed foods. My face has better color, better skin tone. Aside from just the weight, the difference is amazing.
Good luck in helping your mom make baby steps back to health. If only she could understand that it's not a choice between grapefruits and thimblefulls of granola vs. a mountain of junk food. It's possible to eat a lot of the things we like, provided we eat them in reasonable portions and keep our carb/protein/fat ratio in check with enough fiber.
And then some of us have an inspiration....
I always ate what I wanted, and I wasn't "fat" I was pretty chunky though. At 5'5 and 160 pounds I thought I looked great. hahahaha. I became pregnant with my first child and ate what I wanted cause the weight was going to come anyway. 7 weeks after delivering, was pregnant again. More limiting on the food this time, but I was so miserable with being pregnant and feeling like crap for 2 yrs in a row that the food started up again.
Anyway my mom had 2 babies fairly close as well and she didn't lose her baby weight. In fact she kept it off until only like 5 yrs ago. Now's she's lost over 60 pounds and looks wonderful! I know she is the only reason that I even tried to lose the weight. Up until she did it I figured yeah that's a "mommy's body".
My mom is my inspiration!!!
I am sooo struggling with this mindset. I KNOW what / how much to eat. But I feel i continually give into my urges to overeat, get a second helping, or binge on chips or cookies. I want so badly to change the way I eat. I really do. I start out well, but by afternoon or evening, it all goes out the window.
All I can think to do now is pray. What the heck is wrong with me?
To give a few insights from my past:
I tend to rebel against being told what to do and react negatively to a perception of being judged. Even as an adult, I once ate a big ol' fluffy, buttery biscuit (along with my egg white omelette) entirely because my bf had been nagging me about what I should/could/better not eat. I ate it in front of him too, really to spite him. Of course, I realized soon after that I was hurting myself more than him and regretted it. I began to work on focusing only on my own thoughts and judgments and not letting the disapproval of others affect me like that.
Another thing I noticed about portion sizes. When I switched my diet to more fruits and veggies, whole foods, lean proteins back in 2005, I noticed that I took bigger portions of veggies (and other healthy stuff) than other people did. I told myself that it was OK, because who ever got fat from eating too much steamed broccoli? It wasn't until I went to an integrative medicine doctor last summer and she put me on some meds and some supplements, based on my blood tests and symptoms, that now my hunger is, I guess, what normal people experience. I can't eat large portions anymore, I just feel too full. So, on this issue, my thoughts are that sometimes hunger is physiological more than mental (so not the result of a mindset) and the result of some deficiency or malfunction in the feedback process. I wish it was better understood as it would alleviate a lot of suffering. But I did have a learning curve with the lessened hunger to stop taking such large portions because I'd waste broccoli since I could no longer eat that much.
Original Post by newme2008:I am sooo struggling with this mindset. I KNOW what / how much to eat. But I feel i continually give into my urges to overeat, get a second helping, or binge on chips or cookies. I want so badly to change the way I eat. I really do. I start out well, but by afternoon or evening, it all goes out the window.
All I can think to do now is pray. What the heck is wrong with me?
I don't think there's anything wrong with you. So many comforting memories are wrapped up in food. Advertisements tell us to associate food and eating with "fun", when eating is supposed to be about nourishing our bodies. I don't know much, but I'm pretty sure that being down on yourself for "failing" or "not having enough self-discipline" are not the way to succeed. You're just as good as anybody else, and since you're a unique person, the way you eat will have to be tailored to you. IE - the exact diet that works for me may not work for you because the foods that comfort you are different than mine, and because you have a different physical makeup.
Keep trying different counts and food combinations and eventually you may stumble across the combination of foods in a calorie count that works for you!
But it shouldn't feel like torture to lower your daily calorie intake. I had a small bowl of Doritos today, first time in weeks. But I have to put them in a bowl, otherwise, I might eat too many. The temptation is there for anyone who grew up in the 70s and 80s like us, with tons of junk food readily available all the time. At least you're here and making an effort, which is so much more than many people do. The fact that you're not perfect does NOT take away from that.
undokier,
I do believe that you are coming across as you put it holier-than-thou. I understand what your saying to a degree but why are you 'judging' other people for their eating problems? You can't say well i'm just making an observation as you are picking apart what they are eating then saying 'no wonder they are obese'
There are alot of issues that come with the morbidly obese and eating unhealthy and too much are part of that but there is a much bigger issue. There are emotional issues and other things in ones life that attribute to being morbidly obese. I am morbidly obese and anyone who is 100 lbs or more over weight is considered morbidly obese.
I do understand what you are saying about food choices and portion control but my thing is if it's bugging you why are you focusing on them?
You said this about a man at your work ;
I had one co-worker, a young guy who was nearly 300 lbs. I felt bad because even though I was fat at the time, I at least was active - I offered to loan him one of my bikes so we could go riding together. "No, I could never do that. I'm too heavy."
You know what? He probably was telling you the truth that he could not ride your bike because he was either too heavy for the bike or it was too hard on his knee's or another part of his body.
I have had someone offer the same type of thing to me and there is no way I can ride a bike.
So instead of sitting in judgement of others and thing poorly of them why don't you have a little bit of compassion. You said that you feel for these people as you have been there yourself but then here you are on here talking about them.
I also don't believe its all 'mental' as if one can just say okay i'm done overeating and i'm done making bad food choices so now i'm okay and I am going to be a healthy person. It doesn't work like that. It's not mind over matter and it's not simply making a choice. There are bigger things (no pun intended) in an obese persons life then just overeating and making wrong food choices. You said yourself you were depressed and that's why you put on the weight. So maybe next time when you look at an obese person making bad food choices or over indulging you can say to yourself I wonder what is going on inside of that person and if they are depressed instead of OMG look at how much food that 300 lbs woman is eating and the kinds of food she is taking and OMG that's why she's so fat.
Shia
Original Post by nomoreexcuses:
When I switched my diet to more fruits and veggies, whole foods, lean proteins back in 2005, I noticed that I took bigger portions of veggies (and other healthy stuff) than other people did. I told myself that it was OK, because who ever got fat from eating too much steamed broccoli?
That's interesting. When I first started counting, that's exactly what I did, except it was raw veggies (esp. carrots) that I did it with. I limited my calories, but allowed myself unlimited servings of the rabbit food. And in my case, it did the trick of keeping me full, but as time went by, I needed less and less of the veggies to stay satisfied, and now I don't nibble on veg between meals anymore. I do have a big salad before lunch and sinner, though. But it's more because I like salad than to be on a diet. My stomach capacity shrank on its own without doctor's intervention.
I really do need to dig out an old photo of me and post it so you'll all believe me. Until I was 45, I was slender. I didn't pay too much attention to what I ate or how much. If I gained 5 or 10 pounds, I'd go on a diet for a couple of months and lose it. I always weighed between 125 and 135 at the most. My diet was actually healthy - plenty of fresh veggies and fruits, lean meats, everything cooked from scratch and not much processed food. I walked everywhere, most days at least a mile or two. I didn't live on fast food and never drank sodas or other junk. I seldom ate fried foods and didn't have desserts very often. But I did like large portions and I loved food.
Then peri-menopause hit. I started gaining weight, and when I'd go on a diet, I'd lose it, then gain it back in a remarkably short period of time, plus a few more pounds each time.
During this time some health problems appeared. None of them were caused by or had anything to do with being overweight. For instance, I have a congenital heart defect, and it got worse. I had a small breast cancer and needed treatment. I developed a rare lung disease from the radiation therapy. The result of this was, I lost a lot of mobility and became less active. which exacerbated the weight gain.
I joined Weight Watchers multiple times, lost 20 pounds and stalled. After a few weeks, the attitude of the instructor was that I must be cheating. So I'd cut back even more. After a few weeks of starving, I'd just give up and gain it all back. I tried every diet in the book with the same results - lose a little, stall out, eat less and less, then give up and gain. I got all the way up to 225 pounds at age 63. Dieting made me fat.
It wasn't until I found CC that I learned about portion control and calorie counting, and deficits and starvation mode. I feel that I'm finally on the right track to get my weight under control.
Education is the key. What I didn't know was that large portions of healthy foods had too many calories. I didn't know that you need fat in your diet to be healthy. I didn't know that if you don't eat enough your body will hold onto the fat. I didn't know that it's unrealistic to expect to lose 5 pounds a week.
Thank you CC and all my friends here who have helped me.
Original Post by shiagirl:undokier,
I do believe that you are coming across as you put it holier-than-thou. I understand what your saying to a degree but why are you 'judging' other people for their eating problems? You can't say well i'm just making an observation as you are picking apart what they are eating then saying 'no wonder they are obese'
There are alot of issues that come with the morbidly obese and eating unhealthy and too much are part of that but there is a much bigger issue. There are emotional issues and other things in ones life that attribute to being morbidly obese. I am morbidly obese and anyone who is 100 lbs or more over weight is considered morbidly obese.
I do understand what you are saying about food choices and portion control but my thing is if it's bugging you why are you focusing on them?
You said this about a man at your work ;
I had one co-worker, a young guy who was nearly 300 lbs. I felt bad because even though I was fat at the time, I at least was active - I offered to loan him one of my bikes so we could go riding together. "No, I could never do that. I'm too heavy."
You know what? He probably was telling you the truth that he could not ride your bike because he was either too heavy for the bike or it was too hard on his knee's or another part of his body.
I have had someone offer the same type of thing to me and there is no way I can ride a bike.
So instead of sitting in judgement of others and thing poorly of them why don't you have a little bit of compassion. You said that you feel for these people as you have been there yourself but then here you are on here talking about them.
I also don't believe its all 'mental' as if one can just say okay i'm done overeating and i'm done making bad food choices so now i'm okay and I am going to be a healthy person. It doesn't work like that. It's not mind over matter and it's not simply making a choice. There are bigger things (no pun intended) in an obese persons life then just overeating and making wrong food choices. You said yourself you were depressed and that's why you put on the weight. So maybe next time when you look at an obese person making bad food choices or over indulging you can say to yourself I wonder what is going on inside of that person and if they are depressed instead of OMG look at how much food that 300 lbs woman is eating and the kinds of food she is taking and OMG that's why she's so fat.
Shia
Shia, I wish I knew how to respond to what you're saying here. I think what you're saying is valid, and I think what I'm saying is valid, too. It's hard to make the two sides meet. I do think a lot of it really is mental. That's what depression is, that's what the mindset of "I won't even TRY getting on a bike" is. I was riding my bike daily at 275 lbs, and I know heavier people than that who ride. It puts no stress on the joints- that's the beauty of cycling - you don't have to be thinner like jogging. This was a young man, and he could have at least given it a shot.
I wish that when I was at my heaviest that I had had a friend offering to go out and exercise with me. Hell, I wish my parents had fed me proper food as a child so I wouldn't have to re-learn how to eat proper nutritious food in my 30s.
I'm sorry that you think that obese people "bug me". Nothing could be further from the truth. I see myself in them, and think that if things had been a little different, I might have ended up on the road to immobility and disease myself.
Anyway, thanks for your comments and I really do respect what you're saying, and wish you the best of luck in your goals.
udokier,
Just because you were able to ride a bike at 275 lbs doesn't mean your friend could or that I can or that ALL obese people can.
Maybe you need to rethink how your viewing 'others' capabilities. You are not in their body. Again your judging them because you could do it you think everyone should be able to do it? Either that or they are lying?
Huh i'm cracking up over here at your thought process
Original Post by shiagirl:udokier,
Just because you were able to ride a bike at 275 lbs doesn't mean your friend could or that I can or that ALL obese people can.
Maybe you need to rethink how your viewing 'others' capabilities. You are not in their body. Again your judging them because you could do it you think everyone should be able to do it? Either that or they are lying?
Huh i'm cracking up over here at your thought process
I'm glad you think it's funny. I feel like I dodged a bullet. I really think that if I didn't make a change, I would have been dead by 40. My younger brother was 31 when he had a massive heart attack, and he grew up eating the same crap I did. I just don't want people with so much potential and goodness to drop dead prematurely from this, any more than I want people dropping dead of starving or purging.
And if a person can walk, why can't they get on a bike? It's easier than walking, unless they never learned to ride...
I never binged or stretched out my stomach, as you're suggesting was the case with you.
I gained 100 pounds in less than a year's time (August of 1987 to March of 1988) of eating 1500-2000 calories a day which followed 4 years of starving myself and overexercising.
I never ate large portions of "the bad food". But when I switched to healthier food (finally in 2005), I had trouble feeling full. So I ate more broccoli and such, but I never had what would qualify as a binge.
I don't think I shrank my stomach. I think my hormones (specifically leptin and ghrelin) are working more correctly now. But I can't point to evidence of this. I just know that I never did what I hear a lot of people talking about - like eating an entire pizza or eating supersize meals or a whole package of cookies. I never ate like that even when I was gaining weight.
So I guess my point is that there is no single mindset of "the obese person". There are many, because there are many experiences in life which lead to obesity - not just the one that led YOU to obesity.
I wouldn't mind getting one of these if the seat is big enough. :) But bf thinks it will make me look like I ride the short bus. But I don't care. I want one anyway! :)
Also, if an very obese person fell while riding a bike, there would be a greater chance of a more serious injury. You know... the bigger they are, the harder they fall? That's true. I have terrible balance. So the trike would work well for me. :)
udokier,
I can walk but I cannot ride a bike. Do you find that odd? See there is your judgement and is what i'm talking about.
I can walk only for a bit. I can walk from my couch to the kitchen counter. I can walk from my living room to across the street and back.
Yes I have swollen ankles and yes I have been 314 lbs.
So your saying since I can walk I should be able to ride a bike? WRONG!
I have severe arthritis in my right knee and bone spurs and bone spurs in my heel also.
More then likely some of this is caused from being overweight but arthritis runs in my family as well and I also have it in my wrists and hands and neck. So I can walk a bit but I cannot ride a bike as the knee movement makes my knees hurt really bad. Also my Doctor told me right now walking and and kind of knee movement like that unless it's done in a swimming pool will only aggravate my condition and will wear down the bone even more. Once I get more weight off I will probably be able to eventually get to the point of exercising my legs and knee's but for right now that kind of movement first off I cannot do without extreme pain and reprocussions and secondly should not be done to prevent further injury.
So next time you say 'If they can walk they can ride a bike' maybe you will think twice?
shia
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