Controversial "political" cartoon...

Just saw this on MSN...wow. At first glance before you read the article...what does this look like to you? I can't for one..believe they allowed this to be printed !

 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29263781/

Original Post by kathygator:

Tom, you seriously have never heard of a black person referred to as a monkey or an ape? Maybe it's a southern thing.

 

 Well, evidently this cartoonist often depicted Bush as a monkey and I'm sure there were plenty of people that were offended by that and if he depicted Obama as a monkey it would be equally offensive but to a different group of people but in this cartoon he depicted a Chimpanzee as a Chimpanzee so who's offended by that?  Maybe congress is offended because he is giving credit for the stimulus bill to the chimp but that is the whole point of the cartoon!

So how do you make the leap to racism?  As I said before, what bothers me is that so many people have.  Look, I wasn't born yesterday.  I lived through the Civil Rights movement of the sixties and I am familiar with more racial epitaphs then one would have thought possibly exist but to me if you see this cartoon as racial your are reading something into it that isn't there.  But that is just my opinion.

Ah, gotcha. Your position is that it is obvious the artist wasn't being racist, therefore to assume a racist overtone is a knee-jerk reaction of oversensitivity?

Original Post by kathygator:

Ah, gotcha. Your position is that it is obvious the artist wasn't being racist, therefore to assume a racist overtone is a knee-jerk reaction of oversensitivity?

 Right.

Edit:  But also possibly interjecting ones own racial prejudices into it.  i.e. you would have to be a racist to see it as racist even if you say you find it offensive. Maybe, but at the very least overly sensitive to racism to the point of actually promoting the racism the you purportedly find offensive by protesting the alleged racism.  It's complicated.

Fair enough. From that perspective you are most likely correct. Maybe I am oversensitive about giving offense. I just think it in poor taste to even test those waters.

I didn't think the cartoon was all that obvious at all.

From my perspective, I couldn't tell if the cartoonist meant for the chimp to be the chimp that got shot in CT which has nothing to do with the economic stimulus, David Obey who wrote the stimulus bill, a generic congressperson because the artist didn't know who wrote the bill, or the president because the artist thought the president wrote the bill.

No matter who the monkey represents, it doesn't make much sense.  Just doesn't work for me.

That's why I thought the cartoon sucked.

It didn't say I thought it was a good cartoon, I just said I didn't personally feel that it was in any way racially motivated.

(note edit above.)

i couldnt even take time to read all the post.... especially when i got to some of the crap.... i am pissed.... OUTRAGED.... the only meaning.... it was blantanly racist and a slap in the face to Obama, and all black americans!!!! PERIOD.... you cannot... I REPEAT.... CANNOT... refer to black people as monkey, apes and god forbid it chimps that were shot down by the police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will not argue this point.... because the point is argument enought!!!!

Original Post by yellagirljay:

i couldnt even take time to read all the post.... especially when i got to some of the crap.... i am pissed.... OUTRAGED.... the only meaning.... it was blantanly racist and a slap in the face to Obama, and all black americans!!!! PERIOD.... you cannot... I REPEAT.... CANNOT... refer to black people as monkey, apes and god forbid it chimps that were shot down by the police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will not argue this point.... because the point is argument enought!!!!

 But where in the cartoon is a reference to Obama?

Edit: my point is that it isn't there unless you choose to put it there which says more about you that it does about the cartoonist.

Edit 2:  Yellagirl, the "you" in the edit above is not you personally but the collective "you".  My position is better explained in post #21 which you may not have read.

Nomo - I didn't get the cartoon either. It made no sense.. but then again, not many comic strips do make me laugh.

Tom - I agree with your post #21... my feelings as well.

yellagirl, you are missing the point.  Nobody is saying it's ok to call black people monkeys.  Not one person in this thread said that.

 They are arguing that the monkey had nothing to do with black people and everything to do with (most likely) the monkey who got shot as well as referring to all Congress in general as monkeys, baboons, or whatever else we usually call them.

I think the artist is implying it was written by a crazy monkey - perhaps he was referring to Obey as a crazy monkey.

Of course for most folks it looks like he's referring to Obama as a crazy monkey since most folks think of it as Obama's package. And most folks are aware that racists sometimes refer to black people as monkeys.

I think it's better to err on the side of oversensitivity than to assume that because something 'shouldn't' be hurtful, it isn't. Perhaps that's being a racist, dunno. Haven't fully explored the depth of my beliefs.

 

I agree.  It wasn't a good cartoon, and I do not believe it was racially motivated either.  If anything, it had to do with that crazed chimp that attacked a woman a few days back mixed with our government officials who are baboons (in my humble option, of course).  But, people will see what they will see.

No no no.... that cartoon was a passive agressive shot at calling a black man a monkey.... i dont see it any other way.... people act like the only way to pass an insult is to directly say... "Obama's a monkey".... come on now.... the cartoon was racist... the newspaper is insane to back it.... and the cartoonist should be fired!

I think what they were trying to refer to is the phrase "a trained monkey could do it", as in "Sean Delonas political gags use such lazy humor, a trained monkey could write them". But given Delonas history of taking cheap and insensitve shots at people (if you have a disability he'll find it hilarious, for example), the Post's overall right-winginess and the long history of racists comparing African people to monkeys of all sorts, I think they could have seen where people might take it the other way.

Many people have joked that Bush looked like a chimp for his facial features, too. But without that historical context, that's just taken as a potshot at his looks, not a racial thing.

Original Post by jackattack07:

HAHAHAHA! I'm sorry, but I'm an animator and I just love when a political cartoon gets such a public uproar.. that's what they're made to do :)

I'm a cartoonist and have worked in animation and I tend to love it more when they try a little harder with their humor. Which is a shame really, because as I've stated before when this guy's come up I do like the way he draws.

I think that the cartoon was stupid and poorly thought out, but I don't think it was racist.  There was nothing in there that mentioned or even hinted at Pres Obama.  I think it was directed at Congress.  Sometimes when something is really poorly written, it is said that it must have been written by monkeys.  It's used all the time at a soap opera message board that I frequent.  I don't see it as racist all all, but definitely not funny and definitely designed to do just what it did...raise controversy.  On a side note, I find it interesting that there's such a huge deal about this, but where was the outcry when Condoleeza Rice was so ridiculed?  The silence was deafening.

Am not aware of the ridicule to which you refer, caver.

Original Post by kathygator:

Agree nomo, hence the above comment about G-Dubb being compared to a monkey.

Am certain Tom's way of thinking is best - if he doesn't get why it's offensive, that's great - perhaps the kids on the board who feel the same way is indicative of color-blindness - probably also a good thing.

If one is personally color-blind themselves that's good, but do you really need to practice or have experienced racism to be aware of it, it's historical context, and how it works? I mean, I get that there are and have been a long history of people likening black people to monkeys, even if I myself don't think that way. This sort of racism and it's effects were covered in high school social studies.

caverlady,

are you referring to a cartoon that appeared in a palestinian newspaper?

i bet there would have been more of an uproar if it had appeared in the ny post

if it's this one, again this is a bad cartoon

when i see that, i think that she is pregnant with W's baby, that W is the monkey, not her, so if they were trying to be racist... Fail.  And if they were trying to make some other statement, Fail.

When drawing a political cartoon, it's KEY to start out with a robust metaphor that works on at least two levels.

In both the cartoon referenced in the OP and in the Palestinian cartoon, the metaphor is so weak that it forces you to look for possible meanings.  Of course, I can't read the caption on the palestinian one, so that may make a difference.  But if you read the comments made on page about that cartoon, you'll see that people who are familiar with American culture and history DO see monkeys as depicting racial slurs.

 

Original Post by trhawley:

Original Post by kathygator:

Tom, you seriously have never heard of a black person referred to as a monkey or an ape? Maybe it's a southern thing.

 

 Well, evidently this cartoonist often depicted Bush as a monkey

A lot of cartoonists have done that, yes, but I don't recall this one doing so. Do you have a link to that?