For those of you who have crate-trained puppies

My puppy Trogdor is 5 months old, fully housebroken and crate trained.  WI am wondering if is he old enough for me to start leaving him out of his crate during the day while I am gone (I am only ever gone for 5-6 hours at a time, if I need to be away longer I come home to let him out).  He has no problems with this in the crate but I am worried if he's outside the crate he might have accidents.  So for all of you who have crate-trained puppies in the past, how old were they when you stopped using the crate?  Thanks!

Original Post by gg80:

tblover900

kudos on spending time and $ on a neglected horse....i have worked in the animal ind and have far too many sad stories to combat the good...it makes me quite cynical...i guess thats why i got so antsy about this caged dog thing, especially the one that said it had been done for 2 1/2 years...maybe in US it's different? But in Australia if you don't have the space/time to have a dog, you don't have one. Ofcourse not everyone plays by those rules, but it is the exception to the rule, not the norm!

 I can understand your reaction.   The way you delivered your concern made all the difference.  It wasn't hostility and judgement - it was simple concern for the animal.

I assure you - my dog is perfectly happy.  Come over and judge for yourself - just don't put your sunglasses down because she'll eat them. 

Original Post by alibsam:

Original Post by gg80:

 

i would not choose to do it. we raised our dogs by gradual intro to yard, within 2 weeks.

I wish I had a yard my dog could play in. Hell, I wish I had grass nearby somewhere. Not everyone lives in that situation. I have a small apartment in the middle of Seoul which appears to have less grass than even NYC. It was either use pee pads and have my apartment reek of that smell or crate train her and take her outside. 

 i hate to say it- but maybe, if the conditions aren't right? maybe you aren't in the right place to have a dog?

Please bear in mind that my dogs are both Kelpie crosses and if they don't get daily runs they will actually hold us hostage and threaten to harm our favourite couches....

I wouldn't, because at 5 months he's still not adult enough, to know he should hold it if he's got to go.  The crate forces him to hold it, if he has free reign you never know what'll happen. Plus he's still teething

thats 20 weeks! way old enough!

Thanks for the advice everyone.  I think we may start letting him have run of the kitchen (vinyl flooring) when we're only going to be gone for an hour or two (like out to dinner or something) and see how that goes.  He is teething and chews constantly, but he has an excellent notion of what is acceptable to chew (at least while we're watching him).

To everyone who has a problem with crate training, don't knock it if you haven't tried it.  When I first heard of it I thought it sounded mean also, but when I researched it I learned that dogs actually like having a space that's theirs.  As for them getting bored or upset being in their crate for an extended period (4-6 hours usually)... my puppy just snuggles up with his favorite toy and sleeps the entire time he's in his crate.  After all, puppies need to sleep a LOT.  In fact, on days when he's not in his crate all day he ends up passing out the whole evening because he's missed his morning/afternoon naps ;-)

We have been having the same issue with our pup.  She is a 9 month old chocolate lab.  She occasionaly has accidents.  She has been/is being crate trained.  At night after her last walk she immediatley comes in and heads to her crate.  She doesn't even require prompting.  When she has had enough of my 6 year old sons attention she takes her toys and heads to her crate for a rest.  We leave the door open.  When she is ready to come out she does.  We don't use the crate as a punsihment but as a training tool.  We bought her a bed for christmas, but when we put it in her crate she chewed it up, so we got another one and leave it out for her use.  If I spend to much time in a room without her she drags the bed to where I am and lays down.  She will be a year old on May 1.  We are hoping over spring break to give her more house hold freedom  we will start at night and bring her bed upstairs to our bedroom and see how she does.

Good luck with whatever you decision you make.  You know your pup the best

Original Post by plasmagirl:

My puppy Trogdor is 5 months old, fully housebroken and crate trained.  WI am wondering if is he old enough for me to start leaving him out of his crate during the day while I am gone (I am only ever gone for 5-6 hours at a time, if I need to be away longer I come home to let him out).  He has no problems with this in the crate but I am worried if he's outside the crate he might have accidents.  So for all of you who have crate-trained puppies in the past, how old were they when you stopped using the crate?  Thanks!

i meant to tell you...the fact that you named him Trogdor...LMAO. awesome. kudos!

I don't know anyting about your problem, I just wanted to say that you picked a great name for your pppy!! We are big homestar runner fans at our house!!!

My dog Chaz was 7months old when I started to leave him out of his crate when we left.  At first it would only be for a short amount of time and I made sure his crate was still accessible for him.  He did great.  After about a month he was completely crate free.  I have never had any issues with him chewing on anything.  I do however have a 10 year old Lab who is never left to roam the house.  In fact if I step out to the garage with out him for only 1 minute he will deliberately destroy something  ie.. Cell phone, Sofa, wood around the door frame, Trash can, Eat a sock, Eat a napkin left on the counter, open the cupboards and eat pasta,canned veggies, or Mac and cheese, toilet paper all over the house, you name it.  He must be watched at all times or crated.  He gets a 2 hour walk every day and we play ball in the yard for hours every day and I can't seem to drain any of his energy. 

What is your reaction when you find he's torn something up?

This thread has been a riot to read! I had a dog that would eat everything you touched. I walked him every day at least 3 miles. He had a huge backyard to hang out in... he just ate everything (golden retriever)--he was never crate trained and never had accidents in the house--finally stopped eating stuff in the house... unless he just couldn't help himself (like daughter's underwear).

Got a German Shorthair Pointer 7 years ago and put her right in a crate. She LOVES her crate! We don't use it very much any more but if we have a party with kids, she goes right in her crate on her own and hangs out. When we travel, sometimes we take her crate and she thinks it is the greatest. She hops right in and lays down until we get to where ever we are going. It also helps at some of the hotels, inns, and B&B's.  When we bred her, she liked being in her crate with the door open with her little "buddy" (just had one). We can leave her all day at home, no crate. She usually will lay on our bed with all of the pillows around her -- the entire time we are gone she is in one spot! She never chews--except her own toys. I have a couple of stuffed animals that are mine and she leaves them completely alone. I take her out almost every day. She runs a minimum of 1 mile up to 25 miles a day, and she is fast.

I'm certainly not saying that your dog should eat from your plate, but at the same time, how would you like having to "hold it" for 8hours+?  Dogs that young are still being socialized and as pack animals, you are doing them a disservice by keeping them separated and confined. Dogs may from time to time choose to want to have space to themselves, but I doubt any of them would choose a crate for 8 hours. Dog's recognize routines and choosing to go into a crate as part of a routine is not a reflection that they enjoy staying in there.  Also, dogs want to make you happy.  If they are following what you want (going into their crate), they are going to seem happy because they are making you happy. 

I don't think the price of hiring a neighbor's kid to walk them in the afternoon is that unreasonable.  If your commute is so long, don't you think its especially unfair to your dog to keep them penned up that long?  8 hours plus one for lunch and an hour and a half for commuting?  Does anyone think they could "hold it" for 10 and a half hours?  There are costs associated with choosing to bring a dog into your life.  Training and a dog walker may seem optional, but overall they will likely make both you and your dog happier

My reaction to him tearing up thing is usually stupid me I let you do it to me again..  I learned long ago that it doesn't help to get upset with him.  I usually don't catch him in the act so I am sure he wouldn't know why I was upset.  I just always try to remember not to allow this to happen and if it does just clean up the mess and go on....

Original Post by tblover900:

Original Post by plasmagirl:

My puppy Trogdor is 5 months old, fully housebroken and crate trained.  WI am wondering if is he old enough for me to start leaving him out of his crate during the day while I am gone (I am only ever gone for 5-6 hours at a time, if I need to be away longer I come home to let him out).  He has no problems with this in the crate but I am worried if he's outside the crate he might have accidents.  So for all of you who have crate-trained puppies in the past, how old were they when you stopped using the crate?  Thanks!

i meant to tell you...the fact that you named him Trogdor...LMAO. awesome. kudos!

 

Check out all of his majesty!

The instructor at our puppy class tonight told us to shorten his name.  I was so tempted to say, "I'll improve on your methods!"

Original Post by gg80:

 i hate to say it- but maybe, if the conditions aren't right? maybe you aren't in the right place to have a dog?

I hate to say it- but maybe not every country is like Australia, now is it? How do you know what works for my life and what doesn't? I don't think it's right to leave a dog outside all day but you do so I could say the same to you but you don't see me getting my panties in a bunch telling you how to take care of your dog. Crate training is a method proven to work. My dog now has free reign of my apartment, doesn't chew on anything, no accidents, etc. 

Apparently the conditions are just fine...

Original Post by alibsam:

Original Post by gg80:

 i hate to say it- but maybe, if the conditions aren't right? maybe you aren't in the right place to have a dog?

I hate to say it- but maybe not every country is like Australia, now is it? How do you know what works for my life and what doesn't? I don't think it's right to leave a dog outside all day but you do so I could say the same to you but you don't see me getting my panties in a bunch telling you how to take care of your dog. Crate training is a method proven to work. My dog now has free reign of my apartment, doesn't chew on anything, no accidents, etc. 

 

Apparently the conditions are just fine...

And what a cute dog she (he?) is! :D

Original Post by alibsam:

Original Post by gg80:

 i hate to say it- but maybe, if the conditions aren't right? maybe you aren't in the right place to have a dog?

I hate to say it- but maybe not every country is like Australia, now is it? How do you know what works for my life and what doesn't? I don't think it's right to leave a dog outside all day but you do so I could say the same to you but you don't see me getting my panties in a bunch telling you how to take care of your dog. Crate training is a method proven to work. My dog now has free reign of my apartment, doesn't chew on anything, no accidents, etc. 

 

Apparently the conditions are just fine...

 I'm going to have to agree with you, Ali.  Crate training is absolutely an approved and perfectly accepted method.  People can't judge until they have seen the training in action. The dog is not suffering, here.  when it is done right, it can also give a dog a safe place they can go even when the owner is home.   A place that is theirs and only theirs.  And then, as the dog gets older (if their disposition allows for it), people can slowly work the dog up to the point where they can roam the house or even a large bathroom without having to worry about having an accident.

gg80, have you researched this at all?  I mean really researched it?  Any reputable trainer will say that this is a perfectly humane way to train your dog.  I, personally would not dream of leaving my dog outside while I am away at work.  They can dig, they can get out, and the weather is not always clear and sunny.  My dog does not like the snow and she does not like the rain...even with a dog house. 

Original Post by alibsam:

Original Post by gg80:

 i hate to say it- but maybe, if the conditions aren't right? maybe you aren't in the right place to have a dog?

I hate to say it- but maybe not every country is like Australia, now is it? How do you know what works for my life and what doesn't? I don't think it's right to leave a dog outside all day but you do so I could say the same to you but you don't see me getting my panties in a bunch telling you how to take care of your dog. Crate training is a method proven to work. My dog now has free reign of my apartment, doesn't chew on anything, no accidents, etc. 

 

Apparently the conditions are just fine...

Amen.  I live in an apartment complex, so we don't have a yard either.  It's one of the few apartment complexes in town (I live in a college town) that allow dogs, so there are TONS of dogs in the same situation, even big dogs.  Different dogs have different needs.  My puppy would be miserable staying outside by himself all day.  He prefers to nap in the safety of his crate so that he has plenty of energy to play when my husband and I get home.

=The question here is not is crate training ethical (because there really is no question according to the experts).  The question is just when a puppy is mature enough to handle himself outside the crate unattended.  If not for the crate, I certainly don't think my dog would be anywhere near that point.

Original Post by cptbunny:

And what a cute dog she (he?) is! :D

Thanks! She's a she. haha I don't think I could've rescued a more adorable pup here. She's the best.

I just don't understand a couple people's posts here that insinuate that having a backyard automatically means you're a better pet owner. The quality of my dog's life is great and much much better than where she was before (locked in a cage 24/7 in a makeshift dog shelter). Perhaps you could argue that a person who lives in an apartment and works long hours wouldn't be able to properly exercise a large breed dog so they might have problems with destruction in their house. However, I haven't encountered too many people that house Great Danes or German Shepherds in an apartment. I have a 9kg Cocker Spaniel. I'm sure our walks 3x a day are plenty of exercise for her.

I don't mean to get defensive. I just find it obnoxious that people are criticizing crate training when they really don't know anything about it.