Dear Calorie Count, I have some mean words for you

One of your moderators recently deleted my post in the Forums, accusing me of "promoting starvation diets" because I said that a dieter should never eat below 10 calories per pound of their body weight. This moderator then proceeded to lecture me, saying that NO person should EVER eat below 1200 calories a day.

I find it very disappointing that Calorie Count support such close-minded and obsolete data, and banishes anyone from ever expressing anything else -then targeting them as people who encourage anorexia. I'm sorry, but I find this extremely rude. Eating disorders are DISGUSTING, and I cannot believe ANYONE in this world would EVER accuse me of encouraging someone to starve themselves.

I currently study at one of the top 5 Universities in the world (I have taken out the title for privacy reasons), and I have taken many classes in regards to Nutritional Health. This topic of issue has always been an interest to me, and I have done incredible amounts of research on healthy weight management techniques.

For ONE example of proof, my suggestion to eat at least 10 calories per pound of body weight is supported by the MedLine Plus Medical Encyclopedia- http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/artic le/001943.htm

Your treatment towards your members is very hurtful. I am astonished at the amount of guilt you try to instill onto posters who are only expressing their knowledge of certain factual content.

I did not say anything along the lines of "you should skip meals, you should go on a fast, you should only work out and drink nothing but broth for a week." I cannot believe one of your moderators accused me of promoting self-starvation.

To me, it does not seem like some of your moderators are being helpful. They are people who are on power trips and need to take out their useless emotions onto the rest of the world.

Mimi, I have observed what you mean. People jump on the NEVER EAT BELOW 1200 bandwagon. Some people on here are all high and mighty on that power trip and rude with it and think they know everything despite having no qualifications in the tosh they spurt out.

I believe you have said to eat AT LEAST 10 calories per pound of body weight - that doesnt say stop at whatever that is, that says AT LEAST. I am 137 pounds - so I would eat a min of 1370 - which is well above the 1200!

I do hope you get some positive replies rather than the usual suspects witch hunting you. Good luck x

The problem is, by your numbers, someone who weighs 100 lbs should eat 1000 calories. Someone who is 5'4 and 100 lbs and sedentary burns 1430 calories a day. Someone who is 300 lbs, 5'4, and sedentray, has a daily burn of 2520. So:

A: your formula doesn't work
PLUS
B: You are encouragine ANYONE who weighs less than 120 to starve themselves.
EQUALS: You are in no way encouraging healthy weight loss habits and are quite possibly doing the opposite.

Well then minda, I guess 1200 calories isn't nearly enough for that 100lb 5'4" person either. So according to you, somehow I am wrong and you are right?

 

10 calories per pound is an absolute minimum. A person who is 4'0" and weighs 61lbs is still in the healthy weight category for BMI. A person who is 6'5" and weighs 450lbs is overweight. I'm sorry, but 1200 calories does it not cut it for person A or person B.

Did I state somewhere that everyone should eat 1200 calories? ::reads post::
Nope, sure didn't : )

Your 6'5 man burns approx 3580 cals a day, if you recommended a minimum of 4500, you'd make him gain weight.

The guidelines stated here are pretty simple: don't maintain more than a 1000 calorie deficit, and eat more than 1200 calories a day (1500 for men and those under 21).

Now, perhaps it would be different for an adult who is 4' tall (though if she's white, there may be a medical problem behind it), that would be between her and her doctor. So to state that the 1200 rule doesn't work for the greatest extremes of short stature would be correct. But the rules here are still much healthier, and apply to more people than those you recommend.

Any 'rules' or 'guidelines' that promote undereating are not viewed all that kindly on CC. That's all I'm saying. And surely you can see how many cases your suggestion would promote such a thing.

Also, I'm surprised that you're educated in the field. It seems rather obvious that fat does not burn as many calories as, say, organs. Or even muscle. So any rule that directly applys x number of calories per pound is bound to be horrible inaccurate for many people.

Original Post by mimi_js:

Eating disorders are DISGUSTING

To the outside observer, I suppose it could be seen that way.  I can see where you're coming from.

To the person who has one it is terrifying, debilitating, painful, confusing, controlling, depressing. . .a nightmare, a fun-house of mirrors and illusions that they can't seem to find their way out of. . .no matter which way they turn, it is there, staring them in the face, mocking their feeble attempts, snarling at them how worthless and dispicable they are.

It comes down to this: it is not a choice, it is a mental disorder in which the sufferer is not rational in the area of food/eating.  The only way to restore rationality is to fully renourish the mind and body (through eating).

Just thought I'd offer some insight.

You have been told countless times that posting in approval of undereating, or encouraging others to undereat is against the guidelines.  This isn't the first time you've heard this advice.  The minium calorie levels have been determined by experts, not by the moderators. 

Reminder of the Posting Guidelines

Calorie Count's mission is to promote healthy and sustainable weight management. Please help our moderators follow this vision and respect the following guidelines.

• We can only at this time accept postings in English.
• Your post is subject to modification or deletion by our moderators. Repetitive, off-topic, disruptive, and frivolous posts will be removed. We will take down any posts that violate either the letter or the spirit of any of these rules.
• Advertisements, product announcements, and self-promotional posts are prohibited. Links to personal sites, pages, and blogs should be placed on users' profile pages.
• Promotion of starvation diets or habits that exhibit signs of an eating disorder ("pro-ana", "pro-mia", etc.) is prohibited.
• Copyrighted works including newspaper or online articles, web pages, press releases, or book excerpts are not allowed.
• Please avoid threatening other members, making inflammatory comments or posts, or using foul language.
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Original Post by mimi_js:

For ONE example of proof, my suggestion to eat at least 10 calories per pound of body weight is supported by the MedLine Plus Medical Encyclopedia- http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/artic le/001943.htm

What the article actually says:

An easy way to determine your own desirable body weight is to use the following formula:

• Women: 100 pounds for the first 5 feet of height plus 5 pounds for each additional inch.
• Men: 106 pounds of body weight for the first 5 feet of height plus 6 pounds for each additional inch.
• For a small body frame, 10% should be subtracted. For a large frame, 10% should be added.

Body fat and body mass measurements are used to determine whether a person is under- or overweight. A registered dietitian or exercise physiologist can help you calculate your body fat. The recommended amount of body fat differs for men and women.

For women:

• The recommended amount of body fat is 20 - 21%.
• The average American woman has approximately 22 - 25% body fat.
• A woman with more than 30% body fat is considered obese.

For men:

• The recommended amount of body fat is 13 - 17%.
• The average American man has approximately 17 - 19% body fat.
• A man with 25% body fat or higher is considered obese.

 

Assuming I'm doing my math right, the numbers from mimi's link COULD be a little low if you're really short and sedentary, but... as I understand where the 1200 came from, it was for a woman who was 5'2" and sedentary as well.

My only problem here is the assumption that I should be eating a steady amount. That if I'm 6'4", I should ALWAYS be eating basically 2,000 calories (assuming sedentary or very obese), whether I'm 250 lbs. or 220 lbs, which.. doesn't really make sense to me and does seem like it might lead, assuming I'm heavier, to metabolism slowdown.

I have to agree with the mods on this one, mimi. I think this post MAY be suggesting that you eat too little.

hkellick: This OP's formula will underestimate for anyone you weighs less than 120 or is active. And it will drastically overestimate for obese people. It overestimates my daily target.

I'm not sure what you mean about eating a steady amount. CC's tools are based on your current height AND weight. As your weight goes down, so does your daily calorie target.

Original Post by nelly1880:


I do hope you get some positive replies rather than the usual suspects witch hunting you. Good luck x

 nope. that obviously didn't happen :(

i am sorry for all these non-supportive posts mimi. i understand its the moderators job to make sure no one is "promoting starvation diets or habits" which is a good thing... however, i feel that you (along with many other people i have seen on this site) shouldnt be scrutinized for what they say, or their diet beliefs... (unless your the winey teenagers on here that b!tch about how they only eat 600 calories a day)

*sighs*
I dont know... there has been too much controversy on this site here latly :(

*big hug mimi*

Original Post by minda_spk:

hkellick: This OP's formula will underestimate for anyone you weighs less than 120 or is active. And it will drastically overestimate for obese people. It overestimates my daily target.

I'm not sure what you mean about eating a steady amount. CC's tools are based on your current height AND weight. As your weight goes down, so does your daily calorie target.

I'm trying to figure out what this website is saying.

If I understand it, as a very obese person, I'm supposed to be eating 10 calories per pound of desirable body weight'

Am I not reading this right?

mimi-- I've several of your posts during your time on CC. There have been multiple occasions where you condone anorexic behavior and you've posted several times about your own struggle with anorexia. You know why your thread was deleted. Don't play dumb... especially if you're as smart as you claim to be. 

Original Post by hkellick:

I'm trying to figure out what this website is saying.

If I understand it, as a very obese person, I'm supposed to be eating 10 calories per pound of desirable body weight'

Am I not reading this right?

 No, it's not 10 cals per lb of desirable body weight. If you go to tools, then down to burn meter, you will find an estimate of how many calories you burn per day, at your current weight. The calorie target listed on your account is based on this number minus a 500-800 calorie deficit.

Check out www.phord.com/cc, the calculator is quite similar, but explains you're specific numbers a bit more thoroughly (and the activity levels make more sense). Hope this helps : )

Original Post by mimi_js:

Eating disorders are DISGUSTING

No, they aren't. They are terrible coping methods, and everyone who has an eating disorder has to focus on recovery and getting their life back. But to call them disgusting is pretty insulting to all the people who are fighting to recover from this particular form of mental illness. I wonder if you would find other forms of mental illness equally disgusting?

By the way, have you read the thread on crying vaginas yet?

Wow, relax.  This is incredible how many people are getting so touchy on here.  This is the internet.  Seriously.  If you have opinions that you KNOW the mods aren't going to dig, then go talk to your mom or your friends or whatever about them.  If you want to undereat, you KNOW what is going to happen to you.  It's not good for you.

The mods are doing their job of keeping people with opinions that could dangerously affect some little 12 year old girl who is already developing an eating disorder. 

If you don't like the way the rules are written, go somewhere else.

HK wasn't talking about trying to figure CC out.

The way I understood the OP's argument was that she said that 1200 can't be the bare minimum for everybody just like not everybody can lose weight on the same number of calories; I understood that the formula she refers to ("at least 10 calories per pound of body weight") is simply a more conforming formula to estimate someone's BARE MINIMUM calories they should be eating. As in, eat MORE than that.

That having been said, I never read the OPs posts before nor have I read about her struggle with Anorexia; all I have is the information presented in this thread but it was enough to give me the impresion that the OP was simply saying that no way in the world is 1200 calories the magical universal level that nobody should ever ever ever go under or else. It doesn't work like that. Whether her forumla is accurate or not...no idea.

 

Whether the OP is right or wrong (I, myself disagree that all teens (19 year olds?) need to eat 1500+ calories a day.. I do myself, but I can't say if it's going to work for me until my goal weight..), but it's apparent that CC has certain guidelines, one of which is that women who aren't in their teens eat 1200+ calories a day and those who are in their teens need 1500+ a day to lose weight, whether it's 2 pounds or 200 pounds that they need to drop.

So if you don't agree with the guidelines, you can either ignore them and do your own thing and be here for support and RISK the health factors that might go along with not following CC's guidelines (afterall, it's your choice if you want to be healthy or not- but isn't that why you're here in the first place?), or just stop coming.

Original Post by minda_spk:

Original Post by hkellick:

I'm trying to figure out what this website is saying.

If I understand it, as a very obese person, I'm supposed to be eating 10 calories per pound of desirable body weight'

Am I not reading this right?

 No, it's not 10 cals per lb of desirable body weight. If you go to tools, then down to burn meter, you will find an estimate of how many calories you burn per day, at your current weight. The calorie target listed on your account is based on this number minus a 500-800 calorie deficit.

Check out www.phord.com/cc, the calculator is quite similar, but explains you're specific numbers a bit more thoroughly (and the activity levels make more sense). Hope this helps : )

I'm sorry. There's been a miscommunication.

What I mean was.. this link you posted. I'm trying to understand it. As I read the link on the nih website you pointed to, it looks like it underestimates the number of calories you need pretty severely and suggests obese people need the same amount of calories as a sedentary person (which seems to be pure bollocks to me.)

Also, these numbers are not good for teens (not that CC is any better.)

What I'm arguing is that that website, whether it be on the NIH, does not give good numbers and that I wouldn't necessarily eat based on that.

Assuming I'm understanding the site, the site suggests that a woman who's 5'1" like my wife should be eating about 1,000 calories, which is too little, even at ideal weight. For me, at 6'4", it suggests basically 2,000, which is also too little. Hence, my arguments that this site is underestimating how many calories I need to eat.

I've never met a calorie estimate I'd swear on. Not even this site. They're all off. To me, based on my experience and those of others, the best thing to do is start someplace (like this site) and see if it works for you. If you keep losing weight REALLY fast, you may be underestimating what you need to eat. If you lose weight too slow, you may be overestimating. If you're losing roughly a pound, pound and a half a week, you're good to go.

well mimi, same thing happened to me. I made a comment in a thread that one shouldn't force food into their mouth if they are not hungry and my post got deleted. Then I was lectured with suggestions that one should eat more calorie dense foods to make up for the calories they might not get if they don't eat.

So like the good calorie counter that I am i'm become like sheepand just tell everybody to eat. Even if they have to eat foods they don't like or make themselves sick by forcing food in their mouth they need to eat those 1200/1500 calories.