Death Row!

Another thread got me thinking about this, and I wondered what your thoughts were on it.

Here in the UK up until 1998 the only crime you could (but never would have) received a death sentence for was treason, then in 1998 that crime was reduced in severity therefore totally abolishing the death sentence in the UK.

However I am all to aware that it does still exist in some states in the US and is carried out!

Do you agree with an eye for an eye (as it were), do you think it's right that people are put to death?

Do you disagree with it...why?

I personally don't agree with it, for

1) I don't think anyone has the right to take another persons life.

2) if that person has committed a heinous crime,, why would you want to cut there life short, surely suffering the hardships of prison is better punishment.

Discuss away :)

edit to add: I am not talking about euthanasia regarding illness that's another topic.

Original Post by andie-joe:

The meals are also very basic, for everything else they need to earn the privilege to work so that they can buy things like

And I take this from a copy of a commissary order form

coffee, other beverages and drinks, greetings cards, stationary, medical, soap, deodorants, hair, oral hygiene, skin care, electrical, hobby, clothing/bedding/bath accessories, laundry products, misc, candy, cereals, condiments, cookies/snacks, canned goods, peanut butter, diabetic/ low cholesterol foods, chips.

Under each of those there are items to buy some cheap some not so, but unless they are good enough to earn the right to work or have someone to send them money in then they go without.

Original Post by andie-joe:

The meals are also very basic, for everything else they need to earn the privilege to work so that they can buy things like

And I take this from a copy of a commissary order form

coffee, other beverages and drinks, greetings cards, stationary, medical, soap, deodorants, hair, oral hygiene, skin care, electrical, hobby, clothing/bedding/bath accessories, laundry products, misc, candy, cereals, condiments, cookies/snacks, canned goods, peanut butter, diabetic/ low cholesterol foods, chips.

Under each of those there are items to buy some cheap some not so, but unless they are good enough to earn the right to work or have someone to send them money in then they go without.

 The meals should be very basic.  Three square meals a day (maybe a snack, too) is all they should get.  Cover the calorie and nutrition requirements.  Period.  No special, yummy sauces.  No fancy flavors or spices.  Heck, I wouldn't even give them hot meals; it costs us, the tax payers, extra for the electricity/gas.  Sandwiches (bread, meat, cheese) and raw fruits/veggies is all they should get, imo.  I'll compromise and grant them the choice of white or whole grain bread at least.  To drink: water, straight from the tap - not Evian.

As for allowing them to buy/earn a certain amount of hobby or distraction type items, I think it needs to be done but on a limited basis.  Overly bored prisoners tend to be angry, restless, more prone to behaviour outbursts, and more difficult to handle.

I'm all for education in prisons simply because many of them ended up where they are because of a lack of education earlier on.  This also gives those with a future outside of prison something to work for and a better chance to be productive when they're released.

I personally don't really care that my tax money goes to help run prisons, they're needed for our benefit and therefore need to be paid for, and I certainly don't grudge anyone a hot meal. Just my opinion.

I hate it. I think it's barbaric.

Original Post by futurebeauty:

I totally agree with it and and don't believe it happens enough!!! That is why other countries look at our states as a joke because our level of herendous crimes and repeat offenders are off the chart in comparsion to our neighboring countries with more strictly enforced punishment....

 

 

The US is the only industrialized Western country that still uses the death penalty and we have the highest crime and murder rates.

Please tell me how this is an effective deterrent for crimes? It's not. 

Original Post by alibsam:

Original Post by futurebeauty:

I totally agree with it and and don't believe it happens enough!!! That is why other countries look at our states as a joke because our level of herendous crimes and repeat offenders are off the chart in comparsion to our neighboring countries with more strictly enforced punishment....

 

 

The US is the only industrialized Western country that still uses the death penalty and we have the highest crime and murder rates.

Please tell me how this is an effective deterrent for crimes? It's not. 

 Well if the death penalty is not a deterrent for crimes, then what is? 

I think it's not a deterrent because it really is so infrequently used.  Really there are very few people who commit murders who actually end up getting put to death and criminals know that.  They know that the chance of getting put to death for their crime is very slim.  They are more likely to get life without parole.

peaches, it's not a deterrent for the same reason that incarceration isn't a deterrent: first you have to get caught, then you have to get convicted, and then you have to get sentenced.  there are too many "ifs" in that equation, whether the death penalty is on the table or not.

nothing works as a deterrent unless it's virtually a sure thing.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

peaches, it's not a deterrent for the same reason that incarceration isn't a deterrent: first you have to get caught, then you have to get convicted, and then you have to get sentenced.  there are too many "ifs" in that equation, whether the death penalty is on the table or not.

nothing works as a deterrent unless it's virtually a sure thing.

 Then I guess the question is, if what we are doing is not working, then what do we need to do differently?

a good place to start?  ban guns and teach children and their parents to read.  build programs for families living in poverty.  provide good health care and education for everyone.

you're never going to eliminate crime, and you're never going to catch all the baddies without accidentally catching some innocents.  but you can make other alternatives more accessible and appealing.

as long as property crime is the most economically viable option for a certain segment of your population, your going to have a property crime problem and you're going to have people who graduate to violent crime.  killing them after the fact is like closing the proverbial barn door, don't you think?

That sounds all good in theory, but banning guns is just never going to work.  That's like trying to ban drugs.  The more you try to regulate it, the more you've got this underground system that is willing to distribute it.  We've already proven that if you try to tell Americans that they can't do something, they are just more bound and determined to do it.

I do like the education and health care ideas though.  We've been sadly lacking in those areas.

killing them after the fact is like closing the proverbial barn door, don't you think?

I understand this too, but what is the alternative?  We already offer them education in prison and that does not seem to work either.

you're already doing the alternative: try 'em, convict 'em, and lock 'em up.  rehabilitation may have a low success rate, but low is better than zero.

regardless, early intervention is the key.  crime can't be allowed to be the first, best choice.

Original Post by peaches0405:

Original Post by alibsam:

Original Post by futurebeauty:

I totally agree with it and and don't believe it happens enough!!! That is why other countries look at our states as a joke because our level of herendous crimes and repeat offenders are off the chart in comparsion to our neighboring countries with more strictly enforced punishment....

 

 

The US is the only industrialized Western country that still uses the death penalty and we have the highest crime and murder rates.

Please tell me how this is an effective deterrent for crimes? It's not. 

 Well if the death penalty is not a deterrent for crimes, then what is? 

I think it's not a deterrent because it really is so infrequently used.  Really there are very few people who commit murders who actually end up getting put to death and criminals know that.  They know that the chance of getting put to death for their crime is very slim.  They are more likely to get life without parole.

Well, it's obvious other industrialized Western countries are doing better than us if they don't have the death penalty and their homicide/crime rates are much lower. Maybe we should take note of their systems. 

crime can't be allowed to be the first, best choice.

You are correct.  I think the key is better education and benefits for the underpriviledged.

However, that being said..I'm still for the death penalty.  I'm just not one of those people who runs around screaming "fry them all".  I also agree that we need to work on catching people before they get to this point.  But, if they are offered more and better options and still choose to do bad things, I believe that they should be punished apropriately. 

Well, it's obvious other industrialized Western countries are doing better than us if they don't have the death penalty and their homicide/crime rates are much lower. Maybe we should take note of their systems. 

And what are their systems?  Forgive me.  I'm badly undereducated on this subject.  I would really like to know.  How do their systems differ from ours?  Is it better education?  More benefits? We already agree that these need to improved, but what else besides this?

all those plus gun control.

Hhmm that is a tricky one, yes compared to the States our serious crime rate is lower, but with regards to guns, they can be got here but are difficult to get, however because of this the UK has the highest knife culture in Europe and Glasgow is apparently the knife capital.

So what is the answer? I think overall culture differences places a huge part. My overall impression is (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that in America the culture attitude is anything is possible, it's all there for the taking, you are the best etc so people go out into the world with a very positive attitude about themselves, which is absolutely great when mixed with a good education, the problems arise when that attitude is mixed with poor education because those are the people who still want it all and I guess feel that America owes them something.

In the UK the overall general culture attitude is totally different.

We have given you an education "now good luck on getting a job!" "I think you should aim a bit lower!"

 I experienced this very attitude just the other day when I said that there was something I wanted to learn to do,

"that is a really specialised art" "that is difficult"

the implication being that I wouldn't be good enough to learn it. In the UK it's a them and us attitude.

I agree with a bold attitude to life, but I agree with pg it's only good when mixed with good education.

I don't agree with death penalty, but I also do not wish my tax money spent on feeding and providing healthcare for people that have taken lives or even worse left someone to face the horrifying consequences of a committed crime. I'd rather the government spend an extra penny on education then provide BBQ sauce for a 7 foot animal that raped a girl I know. What's even worse, is SHE is paying taxes to have him secluded. Not fair, by any means.

I vote for life sentence in hard labor camps for people convicted in rapes, murders and professional criminals-what you earn is what you eat. Hobbies? Sure, feel free to count flies IF you have enough strength. May sound harsh, but in reality, think about it, you don't pay a parking ticket and you're guaranteed headace for months. For a simple non-criminal offense. But somehow when horrendous criminal acts are performed, the justice system starts taking into consideration that XYZ was a troubled child who was never loved, that XYZ's was very attached to his/her dead cat (I may be going overboard, but I did hear something pretty similar), WTF?

This tax money thing is a problem to quite a few of you! yet the prisons are their for your benefit! the people in them sure don't want them, I'm sure they'd be delighted if they were all shut. But we are the ones who insist that people who break the law be locked away, so we have to pay for them.

I will go out on a limb and say that the biggest % of inmates are there because of a feeling in someway of detachment from society and therefore need help.

Surely it would be better to try and get the source of the problem rather than the symptom.

I understand all of the arguments for the death penalty. At the end of the day, though, I can't stand the thought of killing someone. I know I'll probably get some heat for this, but the death penalty seems to simply bring us down closer to the level of the murderers. An eye for an eye and the world is blind. Capital punishment is essentially a product of spite. You killed one of us, so we'll kill you. It doesn't really solve anything. I do understand the anger and the need to avenge the lives of those people who have been murderer, raped, etc. I'm just continually astonished at the human capacity for evil and hate. We're constantly killing and torturing each other and it's the most depressing thing I've ever seen. I agree with some previous posters; killing criminals now isn't going to help anything. Prevention is the place to start. Especially teaching tolerance. A lot of the kids at my high school jump to revenge and accusations and fighting when they're confronted with problems. For some reason, people believe that conflict with make their problems disappear. We need to stop this before more violent criminals are created. I'm terrified to of the future. Something has to change.

Don't agree with it.

They should have to  live with the crime they committed, with the regret, their demons.