deleted

Your situation sounds just like a friend of mine. She dated a guy for over 6 years; he kept saying he didn't want to get married and she kept hoping he would eventually change his mind. Needless to say, it ended badly.

From your post, it sounds like you want to get married some day. You would like to be married before you have kids, and you say that marriage is something you value. Also, I doubt he would have proposed back in 2006 unless he thought you really wanted to get married. And how can you not take it personally when he refuses to marry you? Marriage is not just a "point of view;" to you it signals commitment and he is unwilling to make that commitment.

If you want to get married and he doesn't, your relationship is not going to work out. In my opinion, you shouldn't stay with this guy unless you are 100% okay with never getting married. Aside from all that, his "take-back" engagement is completely humiliating and rude; I'm surprised you stayed with him after that!

My bf and I never plan on getting married.  But we both don't really believe in marriage.

If I wanted to get married and he refused, I would leave.  Marriage is too big of a thing not to have if you want it.  It isn't like you want a fish and he doesn't want one.  This is something you will think about for the rest of your life.

I even asked him if he would get married if I wanted it and he said yes, without a doubt if it was that important.  If he really loved you and wanted to stay with you he would get married. 

Maybe he just doesn't want the big, traditional wedding.  Can you just sign papers?  Would he be more comfortable with that or a really small ceremony?

Marriage isn't really the issue for me...I grewup and everyone got married and it's something I was brought up to believe in. He had the opposite and it's something he just doesn't see the point of.  He says he can be committed to me without legal papers and I guess he has a point. 

My issue is his high and mighty stance on our future child (not pregnant but we want one in next couple of years) having his name despite me not having his name. 

I am from the UK - anyone else have this problem?  Am I alone in this and is it too selfish of me to want my child to share my surname with me?  I mean, what if I travel with this child, I'd have tobring the birth cert and ththe passport just to prove it's my child!

Re the post about being humiliated after him taking the proposal back... yes I was.  Alot!!!  I got over it though and maybe it has made me tougher.  What doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

He might not see the point in getting married, but you do.  He's not even willing to compromise and wear commitment rings.  He wants the child to have his surname.  It seems that this guy is very controlling and doesn't really care what you want.  I would definitely live with him first before even thinking of bringing a child in this world.  If you're arguing over whose name this baby will take, maybe you're not ready to have the baby. 

That said, I can't even imagine the humiliation you went through with the take back proposal.

Original Post by nelly1880:

Am I alone in this and is it too selfish of me to want my child to share my surname with me?  I mean, what if I travel with this child, I'd have tobring the birth cert and ththe passport just to prove it's my child!

No, it's not selfish, but I'll point out that a woman having a different surname than her child is something any remarried woman with children has to deal with if she takes the name of her new husband.  I don't know if it's as much of a logistical challenge as you state.  And I'll also point out that even mothers who share the surname of their child still have to, or at least should, carry a passport/BC with them if traveling outside their resident country.

And the surname could always be hyphenated.

But that's a side issue.  As already stated, marriage is obviously something important to you.  Declaring a lifetime commitment to someone publicly is an action you value.  If he doesn't believe the same thing, then that is a hurdle both of you have to workout and/or compromise on.  And you might not be able to.  

I hope everything works out for you, one way or the other.  Good luck!

As I am fond of saying, people do what they want to do. If he truly wanted to marry, he would have by now. That has nothing to do with you specifically. He'd be the same way even with another girl. The same thing holds true for you. My question to you is why are you in a relationship that is so toxic to you for so many reasons?  Perhaps you are both very comfortable with one another, and have been in a pattern for so long that you think it's "normal". It's not. He is a control freak who has very little interest in your emotional well being unless it suits him. Bringing children into this mess is not emotionally healthy for the children, and they could well grow up thinking it's "normal" for a mom and dad to live in an emotionally unsatisfactory relationship. It's not  normal.  It deprives you of a life with someone who loves you for you without hesitation or drama. You and any children you have deserve, and NEED, a life of peace and without all the drama that this current relationship has. You both deserve to be happy, but if this relationship was truly happy for you, you would not have written this letter. I wish you well.

you can never really know another person's mind.  the question you need to ask yourself isn't "is he really committed?"  it's "am i comfortable with this situation as is."

On the issue of children:  I think that if he is not willing to marry you, then he should have no right to make you feel guilty for not wanting to give the children his name either.  Sure, it works for some people.  But if it is important to you (as it would be for me) then I say you stick to your guns and give the children the last name that YOU want to give them.

This, of course, is just my opinion.

I can't believe nobody has said this.

"He's Just Not that Into You!"

Original Post by peaches0405:

But if it is important to you (as it would be for me) then I say you stick to your guns and give the children the last name that YOU want to give them.

I agree the guy is being controlling and contradictory (being traditional minded with patriarchal surname but not with marriage), and I would throw in jerk.  However, if he is expected to, and is intending to, share in the care and the responsibility of that child as his own, a father should have some say as to that child's name, IMO.

A good friend of mine from college got married and decided to keep her last name for professional reasons.  Their kids have hyphenated last names, and it's working out just fine.

I think the name thing is somewhat elastic - I would have a bigger problem with the commitment thing.

-bad fighting technique (clams up, won't discuss it)

-devalued your emotions with respect to the ring, denies that it is even a symbol of love (I'm guessing he doesn't make you feel loved very often, that's why when it does happen you're over the moon - haven't yet realized that it only feels so good because it's so rare)

-contradictory views of traditionality (wants kids to have his name but won't marry)

-jealous and possibly controlling

-probably not the best bet as the father of your children (29, lives with parents, unwilling to find work that's not in his field just to keep the bills paid)

-sounds like you want to take his name yourself, as well as your kids taking it, otherwise you would have the same issues with passports etc if you were married and the kids had his name. If you want his name before giving your kids his name (i.e. package deal or nothing), then honey, face it, you want to be married. There's nothing wrong with that.

-you haven't lived together yet despite being together 5 years -  why not?

Hold your horses, lady. Live with him at least a year or two before you make any drastic decisions like having kids. For all you know he might be seeing other women or be completely impossible to share a house with.

You're either going to have to get past this or leave him.  If you can get past wanting to be married, then there's a chance for long term relationship.  I've been in one for 23 years with the love of my life.  We decided long ago that we just could not live together.  We'd both been married before and had children, and we're very independent people who like our privacy and space.  We have so much in common and our thinking is in synch.  He's a packrat, I'm the organization nazi, he's a night owl, I'm an early bird.  Even though our sexlife was terrific (as we've aged it's become less important,) neither of us can stand sleeping in the same room with another person.  His idea of "decor" is huge piles of books and a comfy chair.  The visual is important to me and I like a cozy, light, airy, uncluttered space, preferably dust free.  We're like the Odd Couple and we're very happy as we are.  We've had some amazing adventures and love each other very much and are totally committed to each other.

However, if what you want is a marriage (with or without children), then I don't think there is any hope with your guy.  Don't waste time bickering over it, just make up your mind.

It's just a matter of deciding on your priorities for your own life.

My sympathies on his appalling treatment of you during the "engagement" debacle. (which continues, BTW with the "ring" issue). That must have been extremely hurtful. How you remained close to him after that is a wonder, and he should be thanking his lucky stars that YOU are committed to HIM.

Possibly he just got cold feet about the wedding and decided that he could have everything he wants, with none of the hassle of marriage. So far at least, that is exactly what has happened.

The fact that you normally get along, laugh about the same things and agree in other respects, is more a testament to your ability to accommodate him, than the give and take that a mature relationship involves. IMO the name of your child is a "possession" issue with him. Again, he wants the advantages with none of the real commitment. The fact that other mothers have different names from their children after a second marriage or due to keeping a professional name, is not the same issue that you are dealing with and those situations cannot be compared, since the father's commitment in those cases is not in doubt.

I wonder that you are both even discussing having children, when he can't even make a commitment to you as their mother. Maybe you should also consider that if you did have a child together that he would not feel obliged to remain committed to his role as a father, sometime in the future.

If you were both of the same opinion, ie. that marriage is not needed or wanted by either, then there would be no problem. However, you have stated that you do want to be married (the type and size of ceremony is irrelevant). Can you live with the idea of NEVER getting married? If he has definitively said to you, that there is no way he will ever change his mind on this issue, I think you should reconsider your decision to stay with this man. Will you regret in five/ ten years / 15 years that you never got married?

What about the possibility that the reason he refused to remain engaged or to consider a future marriage to you is that he does not love you enough and maybe he is waiting for a "better" prospect to come along. I have seen it time and again. Confirmed bachelors simply play the field in either short, or long term relationships that remain uncommitted in any real sense....until they meet "the one". Then all of a sudden, they become the "marrying kind" and get hitched in next to no time.

Although he may care for you, and you clearly love him, I am sorry to say that you are not "the one" for him.

Ah Nelly. . .where do I start? First of all: No IT IS NOT JUST YOU!

I'm in a VERY similar situation! I've been with my boyfriend for almost 5 years and he doesn't seem to have any plans to get married. He says he does but then doesn't make any movement in that direction. AND I have hang ups about talking to him about it because I worry about pushing him into something then regretting it. *my issues to work through*

Ok. FOR ME (but maybe it will be helpful to you) I've decided I have to take it or leave it. For now I'm taking it. For now I'm okay with circumstances but I've made NO promises to myself that I won't one day decide it's time to get out.

By taking it I mean I've decided to love him where he is and where our relationship is. However, I know that isn't what I want for the rest of my life. For me it's a matter of how long I'm willing to deal with it. I know (unless he marries me) our time is limited.

As far as the last name with your child. . .I completely get that. If he really wants them to have his name than maybe he should figure out a way to have both!!!!! LOL

Only you can truly know what's up with your guy. The question is are you telling yourself the truth about him. Be your own best friend! What would you say to a girlfriend in this same situation? You'd be honest but kind. Do that for yourself. Then decide for yourself what you are willing or not willing to "take" to be with him.

Good luck to you! If you ever need a sympathetic ear email me! This post was good for me today because I was dealing with issues with his family from yesterday that have just left me very blue! They nag him constantly about marrying me. You'd think I'd appreciate it but I think it serves to make it worse for my cause! LOL

I'd love to hear a guy's perspective (who doesn't believe in marriage)! Where are they all at? I'm betting the are too afraid to join this nest! LOL

since your not even living together, Id wait till would moved in together for at least a yr before even thinking about having a child. It could either be good for the relationship or be terrible for it.

Original Post by foxriver:

The fact that other mothers have different names from their children after a second marriage or due to keeping a professional name, is not the same issue that you are dealing with and those situations cannot be compared, since the father's commitment in those cases is not in doubt.

I was really speaking more to the logistics issue she brought up of having to prove the children were hers when traveling.  If it's a simple logistics issue of not wanting to have to do that, I was just pointing out it's not a specific issue in other situations where mothers don't share the surname of their children.

If it's a possession/emotional issue she's truly worried about, I agree, it's rather different, although I do think a hyphenated name is not an overreaching compromise.  If, and I do mean IF, the father is expected and committed to caring for the child financially and emotionally, then his involvement in a name is not irrelevant.

Edit:  Of course, I agree she needs to question if this is the man she really wants to have her children with in the first place.

Maybe make a list of the things that you need from this situation, and a list of the things that you are willing to compromise on.  If he cannot commit to doing the things you need, it's probably time to leave.

If you decide to stay together, it takes a lot of legal wrangling to make sure you are taken care of long term - getting joint health insurence, rights to visit a sick partner in the hospital, etc. Get a good lawyer to draw it up for you, to make sure you are protected. All in all, it sounds like your man wants to have his cake and eat it too. What exactly are you getting from all this?  You don't do anything drastic, but taking a break might help give some perspective on the matter. If you take a break, he might realize what he's missing without you, or you might both realize you're better off on your own.

It's just my two cents. I really hope it all works out for the best, sweetheart. You sound like a lovely lady whom any man should be proud to marry!

Where in the UK do you live? because my brother-in-law is a joiner and has no problem getting jobs at all and he has a very bad rep for walking out of jobs!

But i have to say it sounds like a commitment problem to me, and to be going out for so long and still not even living together...sorry but i would have told him to take hike by now...but that's me i would want to be with a man who is proud for me to have a ring from him....

Only you know if this is how you want it to be....it wouldn't be for me.

i agree with pg. also, i was going to mention 'he's just not that into you'.. great movie. you could be the exception, but most likely, you're the rule. 

In my opinion you shouldn't even be THINKING about kids at all! You don't think he's committed; he's said he doesn't want marraige even though you do.......you don't even live together yet! You really need to work on the here and now instead of thinking about bringing another life into the situation...especially since you don't even agree on names!

If you want to marry and he doesn't then that won't change. you have to either decide if you can live with enver getting married (which you can't; otherwise you wouldn't have posted about it), or that you need to leave and find someone who has the same views about marraige as you do.

and the name thing? I have to take his side....if you give a baby YOUR maiden name and not the fathers....but then marry someone else, you will now have a different last name as your baby...and the baby won't have the same last name as the dad either...unfair to child! Kids need to feel like they fit in the family somewhere!

leaving is hard and it sucks...but you'll never find what you want by staying with what you DONT want.