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really desperatly need help, dont know weather to terminate pregnancy

Ok, so I know there are other websites out there more targeted to this sort of thing, but I am so amazed by all the support I have had over the years from the members of cc and i have come to realise everything is intertwined anyway.  I wish it were a little more anonymous, but right now screw it Im really upset and could do with some opinions and help.

I am unexpetantly pregnant with our second child.  our daughter who is now 3, was  a complete shock to the system, i was 22 and had been dating my boyfriend (who was from the other side of the world from me) for 3 months before I fell pregnant.  I was on the pill but probably had taken it incorrectly - missed a day or two- without really being overly concerned about the consequences until I had to face them.  It was a huge decision, weather to keep the baby or abort.  I didnt know if my boyfriend would stick around either way.  I eventually decided I would rather be a single mother than have an abortion.  the pregnancy was horrible, my boyfriend and i fought every day due to him freaking out about having a baby, i cried several times a day and was never sure if and when he might leave me.

amazingly we have stuck together and actually got married this feb.  3 months later I am pregnant again.  Once again, its my fault, I took the risk, thinking I would leave it in fates hands and we could deal with it if it happend.  i thought my husband felt the same way.  Mis communication, turns out he is in no way ready and its actually the LAST thing he wants.  So once again, I am in this situation.  I cant deal with another unhappy, guilt filled and uncertain pregnancy like I did with our daughter.  I admit, we are in no financial state to have another child and the future is nothing but uncertain. we had just started to get on our feet after our first child and now this is going to take us back to square one.

(not to mention today i tried to go for my usual run and had to end up walking home.  then this morning i stepped on the scales and have put ON two pounds, despite a careful diet for the last 4weeks.!F!!)

At the same time, I just dont know if at 26, married, already a mother I can justify termination.

Im really sorry about this huge sensitive post, but I seriously have nobody to talk to about this and would really appreciate some advice

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by littleshellys:

I never understood how a woman could get pregnant and think it is  her right to "choose" whether to kill the baby or let it live. I just don't get how people can do that. The baby is a life. Not your body, not part of your body.

and i'm sure this belief will inform your decision when it's your unplanned pregnancy.  but it's your belief, so let's not impose it on everyone else, okay?

human life is no more sacred than any other, and we sacrifice other life forms all the time for our comfort, convenience, and health. 

we have almost 7 billion people on a planet that can support 3 billion, and every new human life contributes to that and all our other problems.  abortion is just as moral and ethical a choice as the alternatives, if not moreso.

pgeorgian - i don't know you, but i like you already :)

not only this particular post of yours on this thread, but all of the posts you've made on this particular thread i agree with 110%.

just wanted to throw my support out there :)

and once again, tani - while you're mulling things over, remember, again, the dire state of this planet and the fact of natural abortion among many other species that dwell here - as pgeorgian pointed out, it is necessary and don't at all feel guilty if that is the way you go.

Most people don't want to feel guilty over the things they feel guilty over. It's not exactly a nice feeling. Something most people try to shake off, but it can take years in certain circumstances, and people telling you to not feel guilty usually doesn't help much. Everyone's healing time differs, some people never heal from dertain things. I just feel like if you are worried about possibly feeling guilty down the line, there are other viable 'choices' you can make. It is worth looking into b4 you make a quick decision. Thinking about the state of the world may not help you to feel better about your own 'personal decision which will hit much closer to home. Feeling like a champion for not increasing the worlds population might not work for everyone.

Not trying to start an argument, but does anyone have some goods stats for whether or not the population is truly unstastainable, or the birth rate vs. the death rate being out of control? I'm not exactly read up on this, so I don't have a strong opinion about this right now.

i don't think anyone's advising a quick decision be made..

Didn't say anyone was advising it...I was just hoping she wouldn't. Not trying to make my argument pro anything except the well being of the OP. I honestly care about that.

then we are in agreement :)

Original Post by cellotlhicks:

Not trying to start an argument, but does anyone have some goods stats for whether or not the population is truly unstastainable, or the birth rate vs. the death rate being out of control? I'm not exactly read up on this, so I don't have a strong opinion about this right now.

Funniest thing about stats... you can find stats to darn near support any argument that you wish to fight!  From where I am sitting, there are litterally millions of acres of land that could be used to sustain life on this planet.  I have a little garden that produces more than enough fresh veggies for my family.  It is about the size of your average small lawn.  It may be a little more work, but it sure is a lot prettier!  Overcrowded cities are teaming with wasted resources.  Ever work in a restaurant or grocery store?  Ever witness the waste?  Ever gone out to eat and left your plate unfinished?  I personally do not beleive that our planet's problem is overpopulation, just unbalanced distribution!  I do NOT advocate forced distribution in any way, though.  Selflessness is a condition that we can benefit from only if we willingly go there ourselves!  The overpopulation argument is one that probably helps some assuage some guilt though. 

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by fightinginsanity:

"fightinginsanity, that was horrible what you wrote about pg."  Yes, it was.  Sorry, I have taken and seen others take an awful lot of digs from her; she tends not to bring out the best in me. 

so your bad behaviour is my fault.  thanks for clarifying that.

"LDS family services.  LDS = latter day saints.  i doubt that fightinginsanity had much choice in her pregnancies."

My bad behaviour was my fault.  You are responsible for your bad behaviour.  I've never seen you own up to it though :)

Original Post by tani24:

adoption?!!!

what?!  There is no way in hell im going to go through 9months of pregnancy and then give my baby away.  Im not a teenager, Im a married woman, a mother,  a responsible, nurturing woman who is capeable of raising a child.  Im not trailor trash, and im not a kid.

i am suggesting using termination as a kind of birth control for a modern woman.  I know that sounds AWFUL, but is it realy that different than the morning after pill of which I have taken?  I certainly woulnt advocate abortion as a form of birth control, and believe you me we wil be taking much stricter measures to make sure it doesnt come to this ever ever again.  but it has, and now im not sure what to do.

Im not sure how to make you understand my sitation and the rediculousness of adopting out.

by the way, "we women are born to serve" WTF?!

 I hope you decide not to abort him/her.

Whichever you choose to do I think you need to make sure that you don't tell your daughter that you're pregnant.  If you decide not to abort I don't think this is a decision that she should be aware of or know about until she's older and even then you might not want to share that information.

Adoption would be tricky unless you were doing a surrogate pregnancy for someone else.

From what I hear there is much more trickiness to Surrogate pregnancies. I know of one that incuded a couple lawyers, and TONS of paperwork. Much more paperwork. Adoption can be simple in many cases, and there are different ways to go about it. She has mentioned that she doesn't believe in it for herself, though. One thing I noticed, OP, is that you said how capable, and motherly you were, and how you are a wife and mother. I believe that as well. I guess there is a part of you then that knows you can do it...but what are your biggest doubts, aside from the marriage (which, I of course do realize is very important)?

I think in the end you will keep the baby.  Maybe find counseling for you and your husband to get through this time in your life?  You were able to get through the first pregancy and you have a child that you love.  Perhaps after you have this baby you can opt to have your tubes tied so you don't have to worry about birth control.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by littleshellys:

I never understood how a woman could get pregnant and think it is  her right to "choose" whether to kill the baby or let it live. I just don't get how people can do that. The baby is a life. Not your body, not part of your body.

and i'm sure this belief will inform your decision when it's your unplanned pregnancy.  but it's your belief, so let's not impose it on everyone else, okay?

human life is no more sacred than any other, and we sacrifice other life forms all the time for our comfort, convenience, and health. 

we have almost 7 billion people on a planet that can support 3 billion, and every new human life contributes to that and all our other problems.  abortion is just as moral and ethical a choice as the alternatives, if not moreso.

 Are we Reading the same post? She asked for opinions and I gave mine. You are expressing yours by your comments, why are you allowed to and I am not?

And how do you know I have not had an unplanned pregnancy or had to make a decision like this. When you say human life is no more sacred than any other life you are very disturbing.

Original Post by merylwhite1:

Ugh. You already know the OP is considering abortion as one of her options, so doling out stories/advice like this is totally inconsiderate and cruel.

I would like to think in this day and age women have the right to choose what happens to their bodies and to their futures.

I don't see what is so "cruel" about my comment.  Abortion is not the only answer and the reason the OP is asking on this forum is to hear ALL views, not just yours.

I think babies also have the right to choose what happens to their bodies and to their futures." 

Original Post by pgeorgian:

and i'm sure this belief will inform your decision when it's your unplanned pregnancy.  but it's your belief, so let's not impose it on everyone else, okay?

human life is no more sacred than any other, and we sacrifice other life forms all the time for our comfort, convenience, and health. 

Um...the OP said, "Once again, its my fault, I took the risk, thinking I would leave it in fates hands and we could deal with it if it happend."

Exactly HOW would this pregnancy be classified as "unplanned"?

Seems to me it was planned...but the risktaker is not the OP, it's her child.

I have no opinion on this, it is a personal matter that you must make yourself and not an easy one.

I just wanted to say that if you do not want to go through this difficult decision ever again, please be more careful with your birth control, maybe even try two different kinds that work together.  Those sperm are tricky and they are just trying to do their job, don't make it easy for them to succeed.

I was kind of in your situation.  I had my daughter then became pregnant again when she was 15 months old.  Everyone had an opinion on it but I decided to stick with it.  When my son was born they were exactly two years apart.  Its a little tough since they are 3 and 1 now but there is an upside.  They are growing up together and they keep each other company.  After my son was born my husband and I decided no more children.  I take the pill now and he's actually thinking of vasectomy.  

If this will be your last child then I say go for the pregnancy you will be done that much sooner.  

Remember you can't let your peers/family dictate what you really feel inside.  

If you decide to terminate make sure you are firm on that decision.  Its not an easy decision to make.

This shouldn't be a debate on overpopulation. 

Making this decision has to do with what the OP feels is right for her.

As far as people preaching that she has to keep it... there are 46 million abortions performed worldwide every year.  Are you going to take all those babies?  Right now there are 500,000 kids in the foster care system in the US- many just waiting to be adopted.  Many of them never will be.  There are orphanages all over the world with kids waiting to be adopted.  The point is, they are waiting.

25% of pregnancies naturally end on their own in the first trimester.  It is her choice whether she wants to end this pregnancy.  And unless you can carry, birth, feed, and raise this child for her- I don't think you (pro life parade) have the right to try and morally guilt her on an internet forum.

Whatever she chooses will be the right choice for her- not you.

Original Post by kaetlynm:

Original Post by littleshellys:

I will never understand this kind of thing. You made a mistake that happens. Everyone makes mistakes but we are talking life and death  here. I never understood how a woman could get pregnant and think it is  her right to "choose" whether to kill the baby or let it live. I just don't get how people can do that. The baby is a life. Not your body, not part of your body. It is a life that you are simply holding inside of you while the child grows and then can be born into the world. But the baby is not part of  your body so  you don't have a right to kill it. If you don't want another child go to your Doctor who can refer you to an adoption clinic. There are plenty of people who do what children and they will find the baby a good home. No killing involved. Then get on a dependable form of birth control, communicate with your partner so you both know exactly what you want so there are no more mistakes.

This is your opinion, likely informed by some religious belief.  Not everyone subscribes to your belief, nor do they have to in the US.  This would be your choice, and there is nothing wrong with that, but let each woman decide for herself what is the best course of action. 

 She asked for opinions and advice. That is mine. And my opinion is no way founded on any religious belief.

It wasn't about overpopulation but some of the reasons people gave her to abort it were for that reason....and a bit preachy. Just not pro-choice preachy, ya know? I also find that many people preaching about the kids that need to be adopted are not adoptive parents....just an observation.

She asked for opinions, and I think most people on here have tried to give her the most compassionate, honest one they could. Some people think abortion is a good choice and they have a right to think what they want, and then there are others who are justifiably concerned by it. Both have a right to express thier opinions, and I think that the OP hearing them all will be beneficial.

If you believe in choice, you should also believe in informed choice, and being wise enough to consider other options before making an irreversible one.

Original Post by tani24:

adoption?!!!

what?!  There is no way in hell im going to go through 9months of pregnancy and then give my baby away.  Im not a teenager, Im a married woman, a mother,  a responsible, nurturing woman who is capeable of raising a child.  Im not trailor trash, and im not a kid.

OFFENDED. I did...i was 30yo with 2 children and I never lived in a trailer. I left my kids father and couldnt afford 3 on my own.

It was the best decision I ever made in my life. Definitely not for everyone though. It does require a fair amount of selflessness. I was amazed by all the couples who wanted my baby, i picked who i gave him to and did not go through an agency.

I agree with PG though...do what YOU need to do for YOU. You are the only person in the world who ultimately will be left to live with your decision and your child if you decide to keep it. Men may come and go, but children are forever.