Diet & Fitness, need help bringing all of this information together.

Good Morning all,

I'm 5'7, male, 225 lbs at last weigh-in (which was a while ago).  Two weeks ago I joined my work's gym in an effort to shed some weight off.  I have done a lot of reading on diet and fitness, but some parts still confuse me because I don't feel any different even after a hard workout.

Currently, Mon-Fri, I eat Honey Nut Cherrios or Total Raisin Bran for breakfast, and a large ceasar salad w/ croutons (no dressing) for lunch at 11:30, then I go work out at 1 for an hour.  Mon and Tue I do high intensity Cardio on the eliptical for 35 mins burning about 375-450 calories according to the machine.  Wed I do weights in sets, mostly upper body, on the machines.  Thur and Fri I'm back on the same Cardio routine as Mon and Tue.  For dinner it varies, mostly meat or chicken products, this is my largest meal of the day.  I've skipped desert for a good 6 months now to better my diet.  My goal is to shed fat and I hoped a lot of cardio will do that, but now I'm not so sure.  I rest Sat and Sun, not eating a whole lot because I'm mostly stationary, maybe one or two meals a day.

Someone at work suggested I'm not eating enough, and that all of my cardio won't burn any fat because my body is holding onto it due to a large calorie deficit.  I understand that concept, but every time I eat more I gain more, it's like my metabolism is on strike.  I'm confused on this whole calorie deficit thing, if its true that your body is holding fat if I'm in starvation mode, what IS it burning when my eliptical machine gives me a 375 calorie burned report after 35 mins?  Isn't the machine forcing me to burn that fat anyway?

Should I continue with the above diet / workout routine, or should I make an effort to eat more anyway in the hopes that I'll lose any weight I put on after eating more?  Should I skip cardio and do more weight training (alternating upper and lowe body every other day) so I build muscle and thus burning more fat?

I'm not exactly sure how to proceed.  Any advice or tips would be much appreciated.

Perhaps the lack of response is due to me writing a book, let me rephrase.

1) If a body is in starvation mode, and I burn 375 calories on the eliptical, is it fat that is burning or something else?

2) Cardio, lets say I ate 1500 calories and I burned 300 on the eliptical bringing my final number to 1200, which is very minimum and near starvation mode, should I not then do cardio but concentrate on weights?  What would be the point of me eating more, just to have the cardio bring me to where I need to be?  What else does Cardio with weight besides strengthen the heart and lungs and help create more burned calories?

Original Post by vmp0514:

Perhaps the lack of response is due to me writing a book, let me rephrase.

1) If a body is in starvation mode, and I burn 375 calories on the eliptical, is it fat that is burning or something else? When your body is in a calorie deficit it will get the extra energy it needs by breaking down fat and lean tissue (muscle), how much of each it uses depends on a lot of factors but the type of exercise your doing is a big one.

2) Cardio, lets say I ate 1500 calories and I burned 300 on the eliptical bringing my final number to 1200 nope, your final number of calories eaten is still 1500, running on the eliptical doesn't take food out of your stomach.  The number of calories you burn on the eliptical should be added to the number of calories you burn doing everything else you do during the day.  Total number of calories consumed - total number of calories burned = calorie deficit, which should be between -500 and -1000 each day to lose weight., which is very minimum and near starvation mode, should I not then do cardio but concentrate on weights?  What would be the point of me eating more, just to have the cardio bring me to where I need to be?  What else does Cardio with weight besides strengthen the heart and lungs and help create more burned calories?

 The first thing that struck me about your post is your diet, which is really the most important factor in weight loss.  You don't seem to be eating enough, and you aren't eating good foods.  Eat real foods (things that occur in nature) for breakfast (eggs, milk, oatmeal, etc), lunch looks like just a big bowl of lettuce with crutons, where's the protein? Dinner might be ok, how are the 'meat products' cooked? any veggies with them? any grains? Where's the fat in your diet?

As far as your workout, move to free weights instead of the machines, and lift for your legs, they're half your body don't ignore them (and running on the eliptical doesn't count as strength training for your legs).

vmp I understand your fustration.  I can't tell you exactly how many calories you should eat. Guys get to eat more than us women. Anyway I can make suggestions.  I've been exercising a very long time.  First I think 1500 cal for you is too low. Second don't believe what the machine says as far as how many calories you are burning. OK that being said. You should be doing more weight training then cardio. Do weights every other day. Muscle will rise your metabulism and burn more calories. On the days I do free weights and machines I still do at least a 1/2 hr on the treadmill or 20min eliptical. As far as your food, I fine that for me Journaling is the thing that works. And even though a ceasar salad sounds healthly there could be more calories in it then you think. Especially if you don't do the preparing...I hope I gave you something to think about... Good luck...

Thanks for the advice both of you.  I'll give eating more a shot.  Yesterday I replaced the salad for a grilled chicken sandwhich on whole wheat for protien, I honestly thought eating salad was healthier and would help me lose weight but it doesn't seem to be the food of choice if I'm going to work out 5 days a week.  I honestly thought doing a LOT of cardio would slim me down quickly since I'm burning alot of calories, but it sounds as if that isn't the case. 

So may I ask then, is it worth it to do cardio at all if the foods you eat are bringing you to a 500-1000 calorie deficit a day?  Or do people just do cardio for health reasons and to fix a day where they've overeaten?

How is it then these people on The biggest loser lose 5-10 lbs a week?  What's the secret?

For a lot of us, we can't eat a healthy amount (above our BMR) and still have a deficit that will lead to measurable weight loss without increasing our exercise. Weight lifting shouldn't be done more than about 3hrs per week, so if we still need more, cardio is the next option.

I'd rather move a little more and get to eat more than move less and eat less.

As for the biggest loser.... we don't know. But we do know that they are working out like it is their job (it kinda is their job) for hours at a time. I don't know how much they are eating - every so often, a player gets reprimanded by their trainer for not eating enough (this season, Bob yelled at Mike - he ate "more" and started getting better numbers), but we don't know what calorie level they are aiming for. They are also starting at a much higher weight, which means they have more to lose.  I'd say that they are losing a lot of water weight, but I don't know how that could continue each week.

But I do think it's telling that we don't see a lot of past contestants from that show. It makes great tv, but I don't believe it leads to long term success - slow and steady is much more achievable and sustainable.

I did some research on the whole biggest loser thing and this is a quote from MSNBC.  What makes me scratch my head tho, if they are consuming 1500 calories a day but weight train for an hour and cardio for 2 hours every day helping them burn 1200-1500 calories, won't they go into starvation mode?  If the below is accurate, how are these people losing all this weight when it looks like they're starving themselves?

Sorry to get off track, I'm just trying to understand this all so I can follow the right steps to losing weight quickly and safely.

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9880085/

"Dansinger says that "50 to 60 percent of [contestants’] weight-loss success comes from dietary change." They're used to consuming around 3000 calories a day, but on the show consume about 1500 calories a day.  As he says, "few people are really in a position to cut their calories by 1500 a day, but that's what these people are able to do." He says there's "nothing controversial" about the diet, nor are the contestants given pills or other shortcuts.

The other 40 to 50 percent of weight loss comes from the three hours of exercise the contestants do every day: an hour of strength training and two hours of cardio. That helps them burn an additional 1200 to 1500 calories, Dansinger says. "It's hard to do by yourself, but on the show it's easy to do," he said. "When people allow themselves to be put in that kind of environment ... when you pull out all the barriers to weight loss, that's when the weight loss can come very quickly."

I agree with the advice about improving your diet.  If you aim to eat healthy foods in good portions (eat when you are hungry until you are just barely satisfied), and combine this with exercise, the pounds will come off.

You mention you've only been working out for 2 weeks.  It takes time to see the weight loss.  It took me several months before I saw any decrease (I only had 10 or so to lose) - my weight actually increased after I started working out due to increased muscle mass.

My advice to you would be to just focus on a healthy diet and keep exercising (definitely add more weight training - especially lower body - those are your largest muscles) and not worry to much about the scale.  It will happen for you, you just have to be patient.

Because you're watching a recording. One "week" on the show is 10 days in real life.

 And because the very obese have a much, much greater potential for weight loss; the specific point where your calorie deficit becomes "too large" is 31kcal/lbs fat mass d.

A limit on the maximum energy transfer rate from the human fat store in hypophagia is deduced from experimental data of underfed subjects maintaining moderate activity levels and is found to have a value of (290±25) kJ/kg d. A dietary restriction which exceeds the limited capability of the fat store to compensate for the energy deficiency results in an immediate decrease in the fat free mass (FFM).

S.S. Alpert Journal of Theoretical Biology Volume 233, Issue 1, 7 March 2005, Pages 1-13

Works out to about 31cal/lbs of fat mass/day on average. So if you have 100-200-300lbs of fat mass like the contestants, what's your allowable deficit initially?

 A lot more than what you can do.

Thanks for all the advice.  I'll step up weights a bit so that I'm doing cardio and weights 50/50 and eat a bit more, hopefully a combination of the two will allow me to see results over time.   I have about 50-60 lbs to lose, being 5'7 and 225, I should be around the 160 range, I'm just not excited about such a long haul.

Hi,

Don't get discouraged. I know it's been 6 months of slow change but you still have a bit of refining to do. I found with every major "eye opener" I have lost more fat. I don't have much weight to lose now (210 to 135lbs) but I do have body fat.

My suggestion is to add weights. Anarobic exercise will continue to up your metabolism throughout the day making you stronger and building muscle. Upper body is fine - but get a system going. I would honestly say 3 days weights, 2 days cardio, 2 rest days, that's a good plan. Here's my schbeal and most of the body builders or fitness guru's in my gym do the same (we're like monkey's) lol.

1. Mon - Weights - Legs
2. Tues - Spin Class
3. Wed - Weights - Chest, Triceps, Shoulders
4. Thurs - Rest (for me yoga)
5. Fri - Back, Biceps, Core
6. Sat - Running
7. Sun - Rest

Also I would say eat backwards... have that massive meal for breakfast. Eat every 3 hours or so like clockwork. Try doing that for a week and see if it works for you. Here's a sample of what I'll eat today (granted I'm a girl)

• 6:30a 2 Whole Eggs, 2 Egg Whites, 5.5oz Pineapple, 3/4c plain cheerios, 1/4c unsweetened soy milk, decaf tea
• 9:30a Shake: 2 Scoops protein powder, 1 scoop waxy maize carbohydrate, 2 servings azumaya lite tofu
• 12:30 4oz Chicken Breast, Whole Wheat Tortilla, 11.5oz baby carrots
• 3:30 Protein bar & coffee
• 6:30 5 egg whites, 1 cup spinach, 3oz chicken, 1oz fat free cream cheese
• 9:30 1/2c riccotta cheese & blueberries

All in all that's about 1900 cals and close to 200g protein :). Serves me right thusfar. I still lose inches every month and stay the same weight (gaining muscle). Hope that helps you with more insight. Good luck!

Thanks, I appreciate that.  Thats very impressive going from 210 to 135.  I'll definately have to take some notes from that schedule and maybe do some food shopping.  :)  I hear alot of "eat more protein" so I think that's what I'm gonna try and go for, maybe buy some whey powder w/ protein and mix it in with skim milk and see how that goes.

A friend of mine noticed I jumped from leg machines to arm machines then chest machines, he said I should really do only one group per day.  Is there a reason for that?  I thought doing them all would benefit everything as opposed to just one group.

Original Post by vmp0514:

A friend of mine noticed I jumped from leg machines to arm machines then chest machines, he said I should really do only one group per day.  Is there a reason for that? 

 Your friend is misinformed, unless your a chemcially-enhanced body builder with years of lifting experience the whole 'one body-part a day' method is far from optimal.

Full body workouts 2-3 days a week are great for a beginner, but I'd definitely recommend switching over to free weights, you'll get better results and less pain with free weights instead of machines.

Thats what I figured, I didn't see the efficiency in weight lifting 3 days a week and only doing one body part a day.   I don't think I'd ever get anywhere.