Diminishing returns

Alright, well..

I started out a year and a half ago, a 15 year old at a shocking 205-ish pounds (And I was 5'5" to boot). So I did the calorie counting thing and of course it worked well.. until about 170. Then the plateaus began. I spent probably 3 months just thinking the weight loss would magically start up again. How naiive, right?

So eventually I caught on to the fact that without change I was not going to lose more weight. I started exercising, which I had not been doing up to that point. By the way, I'd been eating 1800 calories a day.

Well, the cardio got me nowhere. I stayed right around 170. I should note that I was eating to make up for the cardio, so that shouldn't be much of a surprise. I felt calories were already low enough that I didn't need a bigger deficit.

So I got frustrated with that and overhauled the diet. Natural foods, less sugar, cutting out the really junky stuff, etc. Still nothing. Another month or so passes by and I do some more research and I change up the diet and exercise even more. Upping protein to about 25% (~115g/day), cutting out big sources of sugar, eating natural foods. On the exercise half, I started doing HIIT and lifting. HIIT sprints or burpees 3 days a week and upper body lifting routine 3 days per week.

And finally, over a few more months, another 10 or so pounds came off. But then it stopped again. My most recent change has left me now eating about 35% protein and 40% carbs, cutting sugar as low as I can, eating more veggies, and most of the things I eat now are raw foods that I cook or prepare (And it gets a bit tedious cooking 5 times a day). I drink plenty of water and unsweetened green tea,  I get my omega-3s, and rare is a cheat meal.

Now 3 weeks into that, and at first I thought it was working.. but it appears that it isn't. I'm still at 160 after these 3 weeks.

If anyone has any ideas as to why my body refuses to lose more weight, I'm happy to listen. I feel like I'm doing everything right and it still isn't working. It takes a lot of willpower to stick to this diet, especially when I'm not seeing any tangible results, and I feel like I'm all but ready to give up on ever getting an even "average-guy" physique. (If I had to guess, I'm floating around 20% bf right now, and my body has an annoying habit of storing the bulk of my fat right on the lovehandles and lower back).

So, experienced calorie-counters.. what could I possibly be doing wrong? What changes do I need to make to finally see fat loss happen again? Gorge on vegetables? Take up the velocity diet?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post.

the number one response that you are going to see is: Eat more.

And in your case, that might very well be true.  I didnt go look up your burn (silly teenagers and their ability to burn calories!) but my guess is, without exercise, you are in the somewhere 2200-2500 range, depending on how active you are throughout the day.

If you have time to spare, and well, we all do, we just dont think so, try upping your calories 100-200 cals/day/week.  Keep the exercise, just try to feed your body more.  You will probably have a good 5 lbs jump as you do this but at some point you will either level out or start losing again.

I wouldnt worry about cutting out all sugar, doing 40% carb is hard enough and usually very effective for a boy to lose weight.  You might want to increase to cardio every day (at least 30 min and now, 1 hour each day for maintenance).

Thats the best I got-- and most of that is something you will hear repeated!

Good luck.  And really, maybe you should try getting to a sustainable diet and maintaining for 6 months.  Get that metabolism back in order and eat like a proper person. 

Hmm, I was somewhat expecting the eat more recommendation, however I should mention that aside from exercise I have a fairly sedentary lifestyle which is one of the reasons it's lower. Calorie-count estimates me at 2250 for daily calorie burn, so I'm only at a 400-ish deficit (I usually stray over 1800 calories by 50-100 each day). I'll sometimes raise my calories to about 2000 on exercise days.

Yeah I'm definitely not going to be able to cut out all sugar, even after replacing most fruit with veggies and otherwise having only the sugar in common foods like bread, oatmeal, etc.. I still end up at 60-70 grams a day quite a lot.

As for the cardio, that's a point of some uncertainty for me. I'm reluctant to do too much normal cardio, as I've heard and felt (at least fitness-wise) the effects of HIIT (An example HIIT workout for me is 10 minutes of jogging one way for 150m and then sprinting back). But also, since medium-paced cardio is just the same thing as having a bigger deficit, I wonder if it wouldn't be counter-productive at this point to do too much of it. I'm a bit reluctant to do cardio on my lifting days as well for basically the same reason. Aside from that, I'm trying to hold on to as much muscle as I can so I'm a bit wary of longer cardio sessions.

 

Anyway, the reply is much appreciated. I guess I'll try to up my calories a little bit and see how it works out.

Your story sounds very similar to my weight loss story.  It sounds like you have done the research and you know what you are doing.  All that I would suggest is to start lifting and lift heavy.  If you can do something 7-8 times then raise the weight.  (Get to where you can at least bench press and deadlift, squat your own body weight, at least 8 pullups, 50+pushups ect. ect.) Stop worrying about what the scale says and either just pay attention to the mirror or begin getting your bodyfat tested for more solid numbers.  Your body will start to look different and you will be happy with the results.  Remember PATIENCE!  You are going to do this for the rest of your life...Now is the time to keep reminding yourself of this and don't get frustrated and eat a pizza!

Original Post by ibez:

 (An example HIIT workout for me is 10 minutes of jogging one way for 150m and then sprinting back). But also, since medium-paced cardio is just the same thing as having a bigger deficit, I wonder if it wouldn't be counter-productive at this point to do too much of it. I'm a bit reluctant to do cardio on my lifting days as well for basically the same reason. Aside from that, I'm trying to hold on to as much muscle as I can so I'm a bit wary of longer cardio sessions.

First, that's not HIIT, that's more interval-y. Still good, but not HIIT.

Second, if you're not moving anywhere weight-wise, and you want to enough that it's bothering you, it might be time to write off the muscle loss, to earn it back later.

But, Drea hit the basic advice. I might ride even closer to maintenance for like a fortnight, considering your other factors.

Golla - That sounds good, not sure if you saw it but I do lift 3 times per week. My only problem on the lifting front is that I don't have a gym near me and haven't gotten my hands on a barbell with some decent weights yet. I use dumbbells and do some dips/incline pushups. I sometimes incorporate lifting into HIIT by doing tabata thrusters. I do want to buy some heavier weights for more compound movements. I think I'm probably past the point of benching my own weight (Can do 60-70 proper pushups which IIRC are 65% of bodyweight) but I wouldn't honestly know unless I tried. I will try to do heavier though like you said, before now I was doing things at a weight that allowed for 8-10 reps. I really want to just chuck the scale but I feel so uncertain as to whether I'm ever making any progress or not, and it's hard to tell a 1 or 2 pound difference in the mirror.

Freedomfrom - I don't understand why that is not HIIT. Care to elaborate? If you're inferring it's not high intensity, I challenge you to sprint 150m 5-10 times with jogging as your "rest periods" ;). I tend to get up to 90-95% of my maximum HR. Aside from that I do burpees and the earlier mentioned thrusters, those both in the tabata 20:10 protocol.

At any rate, I appreciate all the help.. I guess these are mostly the answers I'm expecting, It's just very easy for me to get frustrated when it feels like nothing is happening with all this work. I'll try to apply all these suggestions and see how it goes.

Too bad CC does not notify you of when there are responses.  Just read yours...

Anyway... adding muscle size while decreasing fat is very difficult.  It sounds like your eating is clean...however, I increased my protein intake to 1.5 g per pound of bodyweight.  This required me to supplement with protein bars and muscle milk.  Along with a ton of turkey, chicken, salmon and my favorites egg whites and Mahi Mahi (so low on calories but have to be careful with metal poisoning and over consumption of certain fishes)  I am careful to eat enough carbs to aid in the absortioin of the portein in my muscles...because the amount of calories eventually tops out...my fats are taking a litte hit... I average about 40-50 g or fat per day and I should have more.  I try to cheat with my carbs too and eat grains high in protein. Quinoa is great for that. 

The scale for the last 6 months has gone down and then gone up and then gone down...well you got the picture...  However, my strength has increased by an average of 20-30 pounds per muscle group and lifting  I look in the mirror and can see my muscles coming out and people are noticing that I look stronger and bigger.  I started at 180 with 17% bodyfat.  I am currently 179 and I get my bodyfat checked next month.  I hope it reads 13% bodyfat and an increase in my lean muscle mass...

So the morale of my story... scale has given me no achievement (I used to weigh 240 and dropping the weight I got a lot of feedback from the scale)  Now I have to remind myself to stop caring and to focus and solid and clean eating with heavy and good workouts...

Not to intercept here, but an example of HIIT would be something like this:

-walk slowly for one minute

-run at maximum speed possible for 30 seconds

-walk slowly for one minute

-run at max speed for 30 seconds

 

etc etc

Same can be done on the stairs or on an elliptical machine.  The key is to drastically raise your heart rate, and then drop it again.  Keeps your metabolism up longer

 

Well, on an elliptical it would get quite hard to get into the desired HR range with HIIT I would think. At any rate, what I'm doing is quite definitely HIIT :)

By the way, since writing this thread, I've changed to 30-35% carbs and it's going well. I've lost 2 pounds since I wrote it. Since I know the weight is coming off again I'm fine with leaving it to the mirror and not the scale.

ibez, how tall are you?  At 15/16, you are still growing.  At some point you may want to stop focusing on weight loss, build muscle, and grow into your size.

Alevin, I honestly don't think I'm going to be growing much. I haven't grown in quite a while (A solid 2 years, even stretching back to when I was eating probably 3000 cals a day or sometimes more) and don't expect to. I've always been short and currently standing at 5'6, that hasn't changed. Actually, I was projected at 5'5 at my tallest by a formula when I was a toddler.

At any rate, I will be returning to a normal calorie consumption level for maintainence once I'm done losing weight.

I actually seem to hold on to muscle quite well, and even though I had a long period of poorly done weightloss, I am currently stronger than when I was overweight. At the current rate, even when I'm in the single digits of body fat, my BMI will still be only 2 points from "overweight", so I think I'm above average in terms of muscle right now.

Hey, consider that when you weigh, you are weighing not only fat but muscle as well, and from what I understand, muscle weighs more. That might explain why you could be losing fat and gaining muscle, but the scale staying the same. I think in your case ditching the scale is a good choice. Instead, pay attention to what your body looks like and how your clothes fit.

Keep up the good work! But don't forget to have fun. You only get to be a teenager once! :-)

Original Post by ibez:

Alevin, I honestly don't think I'm going to be growing much. I haven't grown in quite a while (A solid 2 years, even stretching back to when I was eating probably 3000 cals a day or sometimes more) and don't expect to. I've always been short and currently standing at 5'6, that hasn't changed. Actually, I was projected at 5'5 at my tallest by a formula when I was a toddler.

Don't forget that just like the calculators here that "projection" is not necessarily the law. Regardless of "averages" everyone is different. And while it's been a while since you've gained any height the end is not yet here. Most (again with the average thing) teen BOYS don't finish growing "up" until they are 18-19. So keep an eye on your height.

Original Post by ibez:

On the exercise half, I started doing HIIT and lifting. HIIT sprints or burpees 3 days a week and upper body lifting routine 3 days per week.

Your lifting routine is missing half of the muscles in your body.  Lower body lifting is important if you want to burn fat, running is not a substitute.

 

First of all, you need to be using the calculators for teens -- not the CC ones.  This calculator (all of them are linked below), shows that at sedentary (which you are most definitely not), you burn 2450 cals, at low activity you burn 2850.  So yes, eating more is definitely called for.  And boys don't usually stop  growing until in their 20s -- remember David Robinson (Basketball player)?  Grew something like 6 inches in college -- it happens a lot.  Proper nutrition (which includes sufficient calories) encourages body growth.  But even if your height does not increase, your body is not finished growing on the inside.

calculator and calorie information for Teens 
Nutrition, Exercise & Weight Management for Teens
More Nutrition & Health for Teens
Weight Management for Kids/Teens

Original Post by coach_k:

 And boys don't usually stop  growing until in their 20s -- remember David Robinson (Basketball player)?  Grew something like 6 inches in college -- it happens a lot. 

 If I had a nickel for every inch some of my guy friends grew the first year of college.... We were the same height when we left, and then the next summer - BAM - beanpoles.  At 15, you aren't near done growing. And, as coach said, even if you don't increase height, you are still developing.

Floggingsully:

I appreciate your post but it's not that I don't understand that my lower body has muscles.

I do believe I said I do sprinting, not just normal running. I rotate the sprints between normal and uphill sprints. Aside from that, I did menton I do HIIT tabata burpees, which work the legs very well, as well as sumo squats.

Coach_K:

My calorie number is not based on the calculators here, I believe with those, after a deficit I'd be at something like 1600 calories.

While I understand I could be eating more, 1800 cals is hardly starvation, and it can get quite costly to be eating 35% protein on a 2500 calorie diet. I do closer to 2,000 on lifting days, but again, protein is expensive.

Aside from that, you peg me at above a sedentary level, which I am not. Most of my day, aside from exercise, cooking, and the occasional outing, is spent in a chair.

Furthermore, my exercises are short, not long or drawn-out. I burn more calories through EPOC than I do through the exercise itself.

This is not to mention the fact that I do a lot more with those 1800 calories than your average person would do with many more. I get in over 1g of protein per body weight, adequate amounts of fiber, a much higher intake of omega-3 fats than most people, plenty of anti-oxidants, plenty of vitamins and minerals from natural sources, with a multi-vitamin just in case.

So while I appreciate everyone's concerns, I'm not worried about stunting my growth from a few more months of minor calorie restriction. That aside, potential growth doesn't simply disappear due to a period of calorie restriction, unless I were doing it into my 20s, possibly.

I understand that you may be used to dealing with ill-informed people, coach_k, but I don't think there's a need to assume anyone who asks a question here is clueless and has not done any research.

As for my age, I guess I should just put that in my profile to prevent confusion, I'm 16 going on 17.

Original Post by ibez:

Floggingsully:


I do believe I said I do sprinting, not just normal running. I rotate the sprints between normal and uphill sprints. Aside from that, I did menton I do HIIT tabata burpees, which work the legs very well, as well as sumo squats.

 

I do believe I said that running is not a substitute for lower body weight training.  Neither sprinting, hill sprinting, backwards sprinting, upsidedown sprinting or normal running is a substitute for lower body weight training. 

You never mentioned that you do sumo squats.  If you do, it's a good start, but why stop there?

You seem to be really defensive when people give you good suggestions, if you don't want people's opinions don't go on the internet and ask for them.  You obviously need to change something since your current program isn't working.  Properly fueling your workout (as coach_K suggests) and stop ignoring half of your body in your strength training are two pretty good options for things you can/should change.

Sully, If I were attempting to use running as a substitute, then telling me it doesn't work as a substitute yet again may be in order. However, my legs do get plenty of work, and my only goal with weights in the first place is maintaining muscle right now. Sprinting is an addendum.

I'm not defensive about suggestions,  but when people act as though I have no clue what I'm doing, it's hard for me to take it seriously. I did make changes, which led to the continuation of weight loss, and then this thread was bumped after 10 days of inactivity. I then said that I was losing weight again, inferring the problem was solved, but I guess I didn't make that clear enough. I may have been more receptive if it had come at a time when I was still seeking a solution... but I never intended to end up having to explain why I eat 1800 calories a day... when calorie restriction wasn't the problem here.

So, at any rate, the problem is solved, thanks for everyone's input.