If you don't believe in global warming, look at this

GRINDELWALD, Switzerland Jul 13, 2006 (AP)? A massive chunk of Alpine mountain fell from one of Switzerland's most famous peaks on Thursday an event largely expected after days of warnings from scientists regarding rock loosened by melting glacial ice.

In a thundering collapse that lasted more than 15 minutes, more than 20 million cubic feet of stone from the Eiger mountain fell in the evening, Grindelwald's rescue chief Kurt Amacher told Swiss television station SF DRS.

The rock broke off in sections from the east face of the mountain, thundering down hundreds of feet onto the lower Grindelwald glacier and into the valley below.

It sent up a cloud of dust that spread out over the valley, covering Grindelwald, a well-known resort near the Eiger, for hours. The village, however, was never in danger. No one was injured and no buildings were hit, Amacher said.

An estimation of what damage the rock fall caused was not expected until after the area could be examined Friday.

The amount of fallen rock is equal to about half the volume of New York's Empire State Building and comprises a third of an estimated 70 million cubic feet that Swiss geologists last week warned could fall due to the retreat of Grindelwald's glacier.

The rock was loosened and had been crumbling in recent days because the glacial ice that had been holding it together had melted, geologists said.

Earlier Thursday, a 100-foot high rock formation on the Eiger known as the "Madonna" fell as a result of the pressure.

Eiger famous to climbers for its killer north face reaches 3,970 meters.

You can see the white cloud of pulverized rock here  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=477hxSDb2yY&am p;search=Eiger10

and in all the earth's entire history, a rock has never before fallen? 

One year of warmer than usual weather does not mean global warming.  100years of seemingly warmer weather does not mean global warming. 

There are several trends that we can not even account for that have occured over millions of years that we can not understand.   Heck, talk to another 'expert' and they'll tell you we're heading into an ICE AGE!

Sure, take care of what you do so we don't destroy the earth, but the crying wolf of global warming makes me want to puke.

The cheesy music in the video (hehe) and a big dust cloud really doesn't make me think of global warming. =) Thanks for sharing! It is really fascinating to think about! 

I have an interesting article about the earth heading into the next Ice Age. Different scientists have different theories based on the limited knowledge in the known. That is why science is often considered a "best guess" until better information or another theory comes around to prove something different. Whatever happens, all of us alive today will have lived a full long life and died of natural causes before it happens. The earth is on a different time schedule that is much much slower than the average human lifespan. Though that doesn't mean be wasteful. Be consciously aware of the impact you are making on the planet. Do what you can to make a difference for future generations.

Pretty much what I take from all of the debate and speculation is live for now, live for the moment and enjoy it while it lasts! Because you never know when the next mad scientist or politician will blow up our currently rather enjoyable existence! 

I've read information from both sides of the fence and so far, it seems anyway, the scientific community isn't able to reach a consensus on whether or not global warming is a real threat.

I do, FIRMLY, believe that we are taking a heavy toll on the environment much faster than good ole' mother nature is able to keep up with patching all our messes, and reducing our global footprint is something that should be on the forefront of all of our minds.

If nothing else, it won't be an issue in another 40 years if the predictions on the exhaustion of fossil fuel sources is accurate.

nymo, i wouldn't refer to the better portion of the scientific community as " 'experts' "....

The glacier melted and a 70 million cubic feet chunk of the mountain, which had been there for millions of years, fell off.  Why did the glacier melt?

and Nero fiddled while Rome burned....

(not true, but it's a great metaphor for current denials that mankind-caused pollution/emissions are changing the climate patterns)

On this site, we all track our calories in and calories out in order to create a net defecit and thus lose weight (or a net gain if we are trying to gain weight).  So we all agree that putting extra matter into our own bodies or expending extra energy has a physical impact on our bodies.

But some remain unconcvinced that putting unprecendented extra matter (gaseous and particulate) into the atmosphere will have an impact on the earth's ecological balance.  And these would apparently like to gamble that whatever we're doing -- it will all be fine.

*shrugs, doesn't get it*

Thanks for sharing Claire, but I don't think anything will convince people who have already made up their minds.  Some people have to have something happen to them, before it becomes real.

And you can't prove a negative, which is super convenient for people who deny that we are experiencing rapid climate change.

just my 2 

Out of curioisity, claire, did you see Al Gore's movie? I haven't yet, but I mean to.

I do believe in global warming. I do agree that there are long term weather patterns, some years hot, some cold, but global warming is scientific fact. Monarch Butterflies are dying by the score (Remember that in South America?) Glaciers are Melting, etc.

I saw Al Gore's movie.  I also believe in global warming.  (did even before I saw the movie).  How can over 6 billion people using resources faster than nature can replace them not have an effect on the atmosphere? 

Edit:  by the way, the movie was good.  Realistic, but didn't leave a person depressed and hopeless. 

I very much believe in global warming. Last school year in my science class, we were discussing global warming. One hypothesis that we all came up with is that the earth naturally goes through the processes of global warming, the Ice Age, etc. But the human race is speeding up the processes of these natural occurances happening and that's why we're concerned about global warming and the long term effects that could happen like coastal flooding and eventually the leading up to a second Ice Age sooner than we could have imagined. Well, that's what we believe. (Kinda reminds me of the movie Water World when continents were engulfed in water.)

Al Gore's movie is very good, if you do not believe you can not deny that he has some good scientific proof and he is very persuasive.  If you do believe, it will scare the hell out of you.  Either way I suggest seeing it, might cause some enlightenment.

climate change is a very fascinating and complex field of study...global climate is cyclical, and slope failure is typically associated with saturated conditions and pre-existing fractures inherent to the particular earth material - that mountaintop would have eventually weathered and eroded - it will not be subject to glacial conditions forever, geologically speaking, it may crush a village today or it may crush a village in 1000 years, mountains erode and life goes on...

i'm not saying that we havent exacerbated the situation, however, the globe warms, the globe cools, the globe warms, the globe cools, and the plates move around...

you say global warming - i say political agenda and environmental bandwagon (can we say bandwagon, boys and girls?) - i hear that movie is rather awesome and leaves a definite mark, but i havent got a change to check it out yet

watergirl:  "you say global warming - i say political agenda and environmental bandwagon (can we say bandwagon, boys and girls?) "

It is truly impressive... the ways in which those that "disagree" with the evidence that points to rapid climate change caused at least in part by human actions find to try to belittle those who are sincerely concerned for the well being of the planet and the life that exists on it without really addressing the evidence at all -- those talking points memos must be really effective on you.  It probably does matter to the people in that village whether the mountain falls on them now or in 1000 years.  Obviously it won't matter to you until it falls on your head.

But actually, concern for the planet transcends political ideology.

REP

California Interfaith Power & Light

Green Cross

Discovery Institute

National Religious Parnership for the Environment

Apollo Alliance

Yes, yes, yes, mankind is screwing mother nature.  We are killing thousands of innocent animals.  We are over-populating areas with foreign animals.  We are tearing massive holes in the ozone layer.  The world will burn in the next 10 years.  The world will freeze in the next 10 years.

Seriously, you can either look at the Greenpeace website to get your info or you can be realistic and rely on legitimate fact sources.  There is a REASON why the "scientific" community can't agree on this...it's because there is a group of people that WANT it to exist, then there are a group of people that KNOW it's not as big a threat as previously thought.

There is a reason who Captain Planet went off the air...

geez, wolfpack
I had told myself I would not answer this thread again but you just manage to piss me off. Maybe Erik will soon have to lock this thread but i am going to say what I have to say.

Do you know that the scientific community never agrees on anything? That's what make science move forward. There is no "reason" why they don't agree, it's the nature of scientific research. You have an hypothesis. Some groups try to demonstrate it is right, others that it is not.
If there is anyhting to KNOW, as you say, it is that industrials and people like your president who have money in industries do not WANT to believe in global warming. Because that's in their interest.

If you are trying to be a scientist, you should start to change the way you think about science.

Actually, as an engineer (hence scientific leanings), you're not quite correct, wolfpack.

The reason there's a debate is because there's a decided lack of FACTS. Because paleometerology is such a new science (That would be the science of trying to determine what the weather was like in the past, btw), and because GOOD records spanning the centuries or decades that some of these cycles are probably taking place on are.. entierly nonexistant, it's very difficult to determine whether the signs we're seeing are due to natural cycles or human input.

Most likely, it's as watergirl says... there are natural cycles at work, but we're adding to the issue.

Global Warming is a real concern. Anyone who knows anything about Paleontology knows our earth has made some RADICAL shifts, shifts that have caused die-outs of massive number of species. The Dinosaurs probably died, as much, due to the radical changes in the environment as to this potential meteror strike.If we're heading in that direction, we have every reason to be concerned. Even if we, as humans, can survive, our ecosystem, as we know it, most likely won't, and we'll end up surviving by adapting to the new ecosystem.

What does that mean for us as race? Us as Americans and for our peers overseas? Who knows? We don't know yet.
But I don't think that it's fair to write off the entire issue as a green conspiracy.

Seriously, man, check out the facts. It may not matter much to us, the changes will be subtle, at first, but they'll add up. They'll start mattering to our children and grandchildren who will be stuck with the ecosystem "bill".

I've got nothing of my own to add.  I was just waiting around for Plume & HK to show up.

:)

People don't agree because something can't be proven.  This is something that is physical to the point that we have the science to look at it and with global warning, even WITH all of our science, people STILL don't agree on it.

This is EXACTLY like the whole "thermal death of the universe" theory about entropic death.....every so many years, a group of scientists come up with something stupid like this and people believe it for a while, then after much argument, everyone agree's its all crap.

And I know it'll never go away.  There are still some people that believe in the "thermal death of the universe" and that idea has been laughed at by the scientific community since...what...the 1860's or 1870's?

EDIT:  BTW, as far as the engineer thing goes, being an engineer doesn't mean I'm in a lab coat with my TI calculator with an "open mind".  Open minds in engineering blow up shuttles and ram billion dollar probes into the surface of Mars.

Also, I just want to make sure you guys understand, the earth DOES heal itself at a rate about equal to how much we "hurt" it in today's society....  I am sure there will be some people that try to argue with that, but that is just the nature of the doom's-day globalwarming crowd, I guess.  Woe is us.

Haha, I did want to add this, though.  This is something I ran across a while back and thought you guys would...well, many of you won't like it, but I am sure it will put the woe-is-us monster in a temper-tantrum.

"Perhaps because there's little incentive for scientists to do anything but emphasize the negative and the destructive. Alarming news often leads to government funding, funding generates research, and research is the key to scientists' professional advancement. Good news threatens that arrangement.

This is the reality that all scientists confront: every issue, be it global warming, cancer or AIDS, competes with other issues for a limited amount of government research funding. And, here in Washington, no one ever received a major research grant by stating that his or her particular issue might not be such a problem after all."

http://www.cato.org/dailys/11-07-04.html

Argue with CATO....good luck.  I really am not trying to sow discord, I just see these wacko pseudo-scientific views on things and it bugs me.  I am not saying that I know everything about this subject because honestly I don't care enough to learn about it since I know it's not an issue.  I am just saying that from the little bit I have seen and heard and read from different credible sources, all of these weird things people claim are due to global warming are just silly.  It's not worth getting another wrinkle on our foreheads worrying about something that isn't an issue.

......we should bring back the thermal death of the universe...

OMG!!!  How can people be so uninformed?  Go see the Al Gore movie right now.  It's terrifying.  Our way of life is threatened:  if we keep up what we're doing we will flood nearly all of the Florida peninsula and Washington DC will be a lake.  

My favorite point in the movie is the fact that over the past 20 years there have been HUNDREDS of peer-reviewed studies on global warming published in scientific journals.  NOT ONE DISPUTED GLOBAL WARMING IS OCCURING.  Total consensus.  Yet over the same period the media has printed thousands of articles about the topic, and HALF of these have questioned whether global warming exists.  How can our public be so disconnected from the science?  But why am I surprised?  I live in a country where almost half the people don't believe in evolution.  At least Pat Robertson has finally admitted to the fact of global warming.  More and more conservative Christians are waking up to the fact that God told us to care for the earth.