How to eat when trying to get some muscle

Hi everyone; I am trying to decrease my body fat a bit while getting stronger, but I am not sure how I should eat; I do a combo of cardio and weights, working out around 5 days a week

if I am eating below maintenece will I basically not allow myself to get that "toned" (yes I know the dreaded word..i mean the decrease of body fat while having muscle) look since I won't be able to build muscle...should I eat at maintence...or above? I'm not sure and was wondering if anyone knew. Thanks in advanced!

Do you want to build muscle or decrease bodyfat? if you want to build muscle then eat above maintenance, if you want to decrease body fat then eat below.  Pick an goal and go with it.

If you decide to eat below maintenance to lose body fat, make sure you are lifting heavy things, so that you will minimize the amount of muscle you lose.

Also, you can get stronger without increasing muscle mass, so if that's part of your goal, that will come too.

I suppose the fat loss is more important than building muscle, so I'll chose that as a goal if I must chose one; 

I do weights and bodyweight stuff 2-3x a week so I am hoping that should work and keep me from losing the puny amount of muscle I have; I can get stronger while still in a deficit? Cool

Thanks floggingsully and amethystgirl!

The only reason I wasn't sure is because I have read here a few times that maybe you want a small deficit or to be at maintence when trying to replace fat with muscle since weight loss itself isn't my primary goal since I am already on the thin side..is that right or what? I just didn't want to be doing anything counterproductive  since I am currently eating at around a 500 calorie deficit....thanks

In my opinion, it is much easier to build muscle first and then lose bodyfat, than trying to lose bodyfat and then put on muscle afterwards. By increasing your caloric intake and keeping your diet clean, you will put on mostly muscle with a small increase in bodyfat. Then once you have put on more muscle, you can go on a 500 calorie deficit below maintence. This will keep your body from going into starvation mode and you will lose about a pound of fat per week.

OK I see...I am just a bit worried about gaining a bit of extra fat so its like a conflict in my head between the two...

how long would i have to eat above maintence for? 

and if I do keep at a deficit will I still get that lean look even if I don't have a lot of muscle below, or will I just sorta remain "soft"?

I would say trying doing it in three month cycles. Get your bodyfat % tested first. You can do this at your gym with a trainer who will use a pair of callipers. Then after you know what it is, increase your caloric intake to 300-500 above maintence. Then after three months, get it taken again. If it has gone down, you know you are on the right track. If it has gone up, then you either need to eat cleaner, or drop your calories a bit. If you lift hard with free weight compound exercises, you definitely won't be soft. Building muscle is the best way to lose bodyfat. You can also speed up the process by doing HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training). Visit the thread here :http://caloriecount.about.com/hiit-thread-pos t-all-questions-routines-ft143813

The most important thing you have to remember, is that it all depends on how clean your diet is. If you keep your diet clean, and you stict to it six days a week, you should be fine. That is how you keep the bodyfat you gain to a minimum. The funny thing is that my doctor actually had me increase my caloric intake from 2000 per day to 3000-3200 per day based on my weight and level of activity. I made sure to eat 6 meals a day, and get one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight, complex carbs from whole grains, fruits/vegetables, healthy fats, and a lot of water. Since I was eating all the right foods, the increase in calories didn't make me fatter. It helped me to build muscle better and recover faster from my workouts. My bodyfat dropped a lot.

Up until recently, I was sticking to the 3200 calorie per day plan. However, since my bodyfat has been stuck for awhile, I want to get it down into the single digits. I recently went on a 500 calorie per day deficit of 2700 calories per day. The only days that I increase my calories are my workout days to make up for what I burned during exercise. I don't want to have too low of a deficit.

OK thanks vyperman...I have been thinking about doing HIIT but have always been a bit scared/nervous to do so, but I keep seeing you pop up on every thread reccomending it and now you are really making me want to try it...maybe tomorrow I will venture out and do it

I eat really clean already; I don't do 6 small meals a day, more like 3 main meals with 2 snacks...but I don't eat processed stuff or frozen on any junk and almost all organic, so I am hoping that will help

I am still a bit nervous about increasing calories to above maintence, I already don't like the fat on my body so I don't want to gain anymore...I will see if I can get my body fat tested I don;t think its high, more that its just on one area of my body haha....thanks so much

I remember Melkor once told me to eat at or just below maintence....if I follow that would it be ok? since I don't think I can make myself eat above it...thanks?

Well Melkor is a very knowledgeable guy so I would listen to him.

Like I said it is all about your particular goals. Now to me, it sounds like your main objective is fat loss. If that is the case, eat clean and get on a 500-700 calorie deficit. Start doing a full-body weight lifting program three times a week that uses free weight compound exercises. Make sure to lift heavy only using 5-8 reps. This will help you to maintain muscle and help to raise your metabolism. To take your fat loss the extra mile, start doing HIIT 2-3 times a week on days you don't lift.

I went the alternate route. I started out eating at or above maintenence for three months. I ate clean, lifted hard, and did HIIT 2-3 times a week. Despite the fact that I was eating above maintenance, I did see a decrease in bodyfat. However, it has been a standstill for awhile now. It isn't getting any higher, but it isn't getting any lower either. So now I am starting on a 500 calorie deficit to try and get my bodyfat % into the single digits.

Haha I think he is, but you seem pretty knowledgeable yourself. The fact that you dropped bodyfat is intruiging even when eating above maintence, I am just not sure since i have a very very hard time building muscle but I could give it a shot if my deficit route doesn't do what I wanted...I am starting a fullbody routine with a trainer that includes some sprinting in addition to different weights and lifts as well as a lot of squatting and lunging. I have to be abit careful wtih upperbody stuff since I have a shoulder injury i never recovered from and my mechanics are all off for it, but I am lifting as heavy as I can (even if it is light for most people haha)...so I am hoping to see some type of change. My deficit right now is around 500 calories so I think that seems good. Right now my scale has gone up but I am trying to remind myself that at a deficit thats not possible and it's probably water, which I think it is since all this lifting is new to me...and I am planning on doing some measurements to see instead so I don't go crazy.

If I add in HIIT should I take out the steady state cardio? And also...do you think the bike is the best for it, or is running or an elliptical good as well? I have never used the statinonary bike, so I wasn't sure...thanks again vyperman this has been super helfpul!! also..i'll be sure to read through the hiit thread you started :)

Thanks for the compliment. I always knew a lot about lifting. However, my knowledge of HIIT and nutrition came from a lot of research within the last 4 months or so. I had a very bad experience happen to me at the gym I work at. I used to be on the opening shift (5am-9am). Since I had to get up at 3:30 every morning, I was never getting any sleep. To stay awake, I drank a 5 hour energy bottle on basically an empty stomach. Then after my shift, I did an hour of cardio. I burned 700 calories overall. I basically depleted all my energy and I couldn't even stand up. They had to call the paramedics. After that, I visited the doctor and was told that I had to start eating 1000-1200 more calories per day than I was. That is when I discovered HIIT and how to eat properly. I have been working out off and on for 12 years or so. But did not have truly great results until the last 3 months or so.

You can actually do your HIIT and SS cardio back to back. Do your HIIT, and then instead of a 5 minute cool down, go for 20 minutes. Just think of it as an extended cool down from your HIIT session. The HIIT will deplete your glycogen stores like a lifting session so your body is in prime fat burning mode. An extra 20 minutes will help you burn even more fat. Here is something else that is cool about doing some steady state after HIIT. During steady state cardio, you want to get your heart rate between 140-160bpm. Since you get yout heart rate really elevated during HIIT, you have to do a lot less work to keep your heart rate up. After HIIT, I can literally pedal at 50% effort and keep my heart rate steadily at 140-145. Doing it this way gets you 40 minutes of cardio three times a week for a total of 120 minutes. This is all you need to maintain cardiovascular fitness, and the best part is that you only have to do it for three days a week!

Once you start really getting into lifting, you should ignore the scale. You would be better off getting your bodyfat% taken at the gym by a trainer. They have callipers they can use. Most trainers will do it for free. Get new readings done every 2-3 months. In between, keep track of how clothes are fitting, how you look in the mirror, the size of your waist, etc.. These are much better ways of judging progress. The best mindset you can have is "I want to lose fat" and not "I want to lose weight". A good porition of the time when people lose weight, they lose muscle because their deficits are too big and they do too much cardio.

Haha your experience sounds like me...I have done the insane amount of caffeine combined with no food route too many times and one time my heart like started beating weirdly and I had to get it checked out...so I know where you are coming from lol

Hmm thats a good idea for the HIIT with SS, I will try that next time and see how it goes, I know HIIT takes practice to get up to pushing yourself but hopefully it'll go fairly well...3 times a week, that seems like nothing haha, can I still do some just plain SS? I wanted to start getting into some long distance running so I would need some days of just plain old running for a long time

Yeah I know I should ignore the scale; I'm just hoping those extra jiggles go away. I'm getting better at it since I don't have one in my house anymore which made me go crazy...still it's gratifying when the number goes down but I'm hoping it'll drop a bit after the water weight or whatever goes away and as long as nothing gets tigher (and looser would be ideal) I'll live...I don't know if they have body fat testing at my gym, it's a pretty basic no-frills gym, maybe I can find somewhere else to do it since I am very curious to know what it is and would help me get a better idea about things; I am 5"5 and am between 117-120 depending on the day so I don't think it'll be like crazy high but it could be lower I am sure

I am hoping I won't lose anymore muscle since I have like no upper body mass, there isn't even a point of me flexing...lol...if I start to lose muscle I'll have to up my calories....could I do a deficit like most days and then a surplus day once a week to help avoid that and give myself a break? sorry for all the questions, i could probably go on forever...thanks in advance this has been uber-helpful!

A great way to increase muscle mass and decrease body fat is pretty simple. Cut the sugars out of your diet, and add the protein in. Cardio is what ads the "tone" look to your body. I've seen kids with around 20% body fat and able to see abs, biceps, and peck definition in wrestling because of cardio. Cardio is key to muscle definition. Now, they weren't as defined as a person with 10% body fat, but they had some definition. So for you I would suggest cutting out the sugars, increase the calories and protein, and remember, it takes fat to develop muscle. Lift, eat right, and Cardio are what you need for your goal.

I do cardio 4 times a week or so but it never seems to make much of a difference in my appearance, but I think that was because I never added in weights with it

you're right that i need way more protein, i just can't seem to get enough within my calorie limits...but I do need to up it...for sugars do you just mean like simple carbs and stuff? including fruit? because well, I love love love fruit haha

I have started a fitness program here in Iraq since I've been deployed for 5 months now. my results are unbelievable. I'm on this program that a lot of Marines do to stay in the best shape possible. I have lost 20 lbs of body fat and put on about 10 lbs of solid muscle. The key is resistance training with weight lifting 4x a week and running 2 miles-3miles a day 5 X's a week. It was tough at first with the running but I now look forward to it each day. Also 2 protein shakes per day to feed the muscles. I feel great and know it will work for anybody. Good Luck

You have been given some good ideas here. Let me give you my simple approach. I am dieting by eating clean foods. Mostly fruit, grains, salads and a multitude of proteins.  I have kept my protein intake at 200 grams per day. In 2 months I have gained about 8 pounds. Prior to my change in diet, I weighed between 200 and 207. After my diet change I gained to 212.  My arms increased in size by 4 inches. My waist is down one to one and a half pant sizes.  After working out I look great.  I have eaten like this for 2 months.  I will begin a cutting diet for one week which will consist of fish, chicken and lettuce for 7 days. Coffee will be used to keep my energy level up. Twice per day I can get a protein shake.  This will help me drop water just prior to my leaving for vacation. It is a cutting diet I used when I was a competitive powerlifter. We used it to make weight prior to a meet. If you need work out routines read some of Melkors journal entrys(you will have to email him to be a friend) and you can develop some great routines.  Best of luck to you.

Cheers

M

Thanks for the suggestions, I think my workouts are pretty good (combo of strength 2-3x a week, cardio 3-4x a week),...although I am sure the cutting diet works I don't think that would be at all good for me and way too below my calorie limits...but thanks for the suggestion

I think I am going to stay a bit below maintence since I think fat loss would be above muscle gain in terms of importance for me and try to up my protein a bit more since I am not getting nearly nearly enough; and then if it isn't working or whatever, I will switch it up...and im going to do some hiit...thanks again for all the help