Eating disorder?

I used to know a VERY skinny woman.

Every time we ate together she would make faces at her food before each bite,

like she was disgusted or something.

There were only two exceptions to her face-making,

ice cream and what she called "zities" (Mickey Rooney and cheese)

I need to lose 60-90 and am CLUELESS as to how one person could hate SO MANY

Foods.

I need to buy a clue please.

does it matter why she disliked so many foods? how will that help you in achieving your goals? maybe she didn't dislike the foods at all but pretended so that she didn't have to eat it and she could resume her "skinny" ness without being questioned.

Sorry if I struck a nerve or something.

My question wasn't meant as a criticism.

How will it help me achieve my goals? It won't. That's not why I aXed the question.

I'm well familiar with the overeating side of the equation:

I feel bummed, I eat, and I feel better while I'm eating and for a little while after.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Nothing more to it than that.

But those who starve themselves are a mystery to me, and I'm just trying to get

a little insight into my fellow humans.

There's nothing critical or derisive about it. Just curiosity. Is that so bad?

my post wasnt intended to be condescending...the internet tends to obscure intent. i really just didn't understand what you were asking.

i think people can trick themselves into thinking they don't like certain foods. or they simply avoid food altogether. i can't really understand it anymore and i did it for a long time when i suffered from anorexia. 

it doesn't make sense at all and it's quite sad really. i've thought about it myself so no i don't think it's so bad to be curious as long as your curiosity doesn't lead you to attempt the very things that the "starvers" do.

A large part of eating disorders in all their forms is emotional blunting. It's actually very similar to what you may experience with the cycle of eating too much.

The brain's chemical receptors work in one of two ways:

1. Patient has a negative feeling (maybe rejection, or self-disgust, or fear, anxiety...).
2. Patient goes for carbohydrate laden foods in excess.
3. Patient creates a blunting sense of well-being because carbohydrates help boost seratonin in the brain.
4. Patient subsequently goes back to 1.

For an anorexic:

1. Patient has a negative feeling (maybe rejection, or self-disgust, or fear, anxiety...).
2. Patient feels tremendous anxiety over being out of control (negative emotions create deep sense of being out of control).
3. Patient creates a blunting sense of well-being* through starvation, or ritualized behaviors of restricted eating (only in private, not letting the fork touch the lips or tongue, making a face, or other OCD-like gestures).
4. Patient subsequently goes back to 1.

*Starvation also releases endorphins to help ease the physical pains of famine and it creates a dissociative state or distance from reality.  For a bulimic they combine the steps for over-eating and anorexia -- they seek the seratonin blunting of a binge followed by the anxiety and need for control immediately afterwards with purging.

Like any compulsive or addictive cycle, in very short order the efforts to blunt negative feelings are not successful and everything unravels despite the patients' best efforts to get that 'high' (or blunted feeling) that is so seductive from the very early phases of the condition.

This is why psychological support is valuable for over-eating, bulimia, bingeing and anorexia. While, we don't know enough yet to really address the neurological elements of these disorders, we do know that cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is very successful for reversing these conditions and getting the patients into remission and complete recovery.

People who hate food tend to have problems, generally...   And people who voluntarily starve are simply mentally ill.... no mystery there.  You don't have to hate food in order to lose weight successfully.  In fact, it helps if you like lots of different foods.   All you have to do is be a little fussier about the foods you choose and then be more exact about the portions you serve them in.

As a starting point....

• Base your meals from now on around a big selection of vegetables and salads and some starchy vegetables or wholegrain foods.  Use things like meat, fish, oils, cheese, eggs etc. sparingly as a flavouring rather than the main event.
• Eat fewer fried foods and more grilled foods.  Drink fewer sugary drinks and more plain water.   Eat fewer sweets and cakes and more fruit
• Enjoy things like ice-cream, sweets or biscuits very occasionally and in small amounts.  Once a week rather than every day, for example
• Be much more active.

If you improve the nutritional content of your diet (more vegetables, wholegrains, fruit etc.) and get away from stodgy/sugary foods then your mood will improve.  If you take more exercise you'll burn energy a little quicker (ideal for weight-loss) and you'll also feel better about yourself.

You don't have to emulate grumpy, skinny, food-averse women to be slimmer and healthier.... good luck

chrissy1988

I kept thinking ,

"I could never have enough self-control to be anorexic"

"I could never have enough self-control to be anorexic"

Then I wondered if maybe we're just talking about opposite ends of the control spectrum.      I, on the one end, who in the past have been OUT OF CONTROL (eating everything that wasn't nailed down) and anorexics on the other end obsessed with controlling SOMETHING (when so much in life is simply out of our control)

Could that be it?

hedgren

I had no idea that there was some kind of high, or "brain chemistry reward" associated with starvation. This explains a lot. Thanks

Everyone

Don't worry, I'm not headed down Anorexia Road, just curious about what makes other people tick. I've been doing very well at keeping my intake right around 1500 calories per day. No junk, no alcohol and I'm walking, walking, walking.

Original Post by onlystardust:

"I could never have enough self-control to be anorexic"

 It may start as self-control but eventually becomes an obsessive compulsion.... a behavioural subroutine that the sufferer is locked into because of their deteriorating mental state, rather than a conscious decision.

So, when loving friends and family criticize the anorexic for not eating enough, does this only strengthen the pattern more, thus prolonging the condition?

for many people yes it does. getting criticized and the concerned comments shows that there is a problem, that starving is working and they are getting the attention that they desire. 

for others they still don't see it but the comments still serve the same purpose even though they might not agree with what is being said.

Interesting. I've wondered some of the same questions. I don't think EDs are talked about amongst women the way that they should be. People either ignore warning signs from thier friends or accuse women about them such a negative way. I never really tried to educate myself. I think that most women I know who don't have one are probably the same way. But I've learned a lot from this site.

Can i just add, that very few people with anorexia (not anorexics, we have an illness, we are not the illness) actually hate food. 

In fact most people with anorexia, atleast in my interactions with others in treatment, actually love food. Not allowing yourself to have something you love is a form of punishment. 

"So, when loving friends and family criticize the anorexic for not eating enough, does this only strengthen the pattern more, thus prolonging the condition?"

Yes, expecially when thy are trying incrediby hard to eat more. Imagine having a voice in your head telling you that you cannot eat something or cannot eat a certain amount, but you desperatly want and need to. Then at the same time you have friends and family getting angry and frustrated with you because you are not eating enough. Its like you cant win. If you do what family and friends wants, the voice berates you and makes life hell. If you do what the voice wants, your friends and family become angry, frustrated and upset. 

In saying that, a person with anorexia needs as much support as possible to beat the voice. So having friends and family team up with you is an immense help. Its about work together to beat it. So instead of getting angry, frustrated and upset with the person with anorexia, i think what is better to do is try and form a united front WITH the perosn with anorexia to help them to fight the voice. 

Obviously the person with anorexia actually wants to get better, if they dont want to get better and dont even want to try then no amount of this type of team work will work. 

Thats just my opinion anyway, coming from personal experience of trying to fight the anorexic voice and also extensive study into a specific type of therapy that works well with this type of team, fighting the voice approach.

Original Post by kayeanne:

Obviously the person with anorexia actually wants to get better, if they dont want to get better and dont even want to try then no amount of this type of team work will work. 

That's the feature that distinguises anorexia from about 99% of other illnesses..... more often than not the sufferer really doesn't want to get better and doesn't think they have a problem either.   The only other illnesses I can think of that match up are addictions... drugs, alcohol etc.

Original Post by gi-jane:

Original Post by kayeanne:

Obviously the person with anorexia actually wants to get better, if they dont want to get better and dont even want to try then no amount of this type of team work will work. 

That's the feature that distinguises anorexia from about 99% of other illnesses..... more often than not the sufferer really doesn't want to get better and doesn't think they have a problem either.   The only other illnesses I can think of that match up are addictions... drugs, alcohol etc.

this is very true. often times anorexia sufferers don't see themselves accurately so it's difficult for them to accept help since they don't see that it's necessary. often times they don't intentionally obscure or undermine the necessity of help but they cannot think rationally. 

there are many things that support the ED. when someone says..."oh you've lose weight you look so good." or things like, oh "you're getting healthy it looks nice" when they are recovering can push them further into the ED behaviors.

Coming from the overeating side of the equation,

I've often thought that it would be easier to kick a drug or alcohol habit.

Because you don't HAVE to have another heroin fix to maintain your life and health.

You don't HAVE to have another drink of alcohol to maintain your life and health.

Once you've given up drugs or alcohol you won't actually die from abstinence.

(and before anybody says it, yes I know you may feel like you're going to die)

But we all have to eat, or sooner or later we will die.

So you have these goodies available EVERYWHERE, everyone else around you is

chowing down on them anytime they please, offering you some.

Seducing you with "oh just one won't hurt, you can make up for it tomorrow"

But you know (actually I know) that:

"Just one beer" turns into the first beer

"Just one slice of pizza" turns into the first slice of pizza

So, I bring my fruits and vegetables to work, count my calories before I even leave

the house in the morning, stick really close to the 1500 calories that I'm supposed

to eat, and when I go over 1500 it's done with healthy food, never junk.

May the healthy weight loss gods smile upon me.

gi-jane: anorexia is like an addiction. you (or at least i) feel like you need it and can't give it up.

chrissy1988: im recovering and whenever someone tells me i look good i think that it means i looked really bad before. and i feel like if i lose more i'll look better, but in reality i won't.

but because i don't want people to know what i'm going through (only my best friend knows) i can't tell them not to say certain things around me that 'trigger' me.