Am I an evil conservative hate-monger? ::The other side to Phylbean's post:: :)
Or just a good conservative?
This thread is explores the “other side” of the Phylbean post titled “Am I unpatriotic”. P.S. Phylbean, the answer is no. 
1) I do support the war in Iraq, the surge, AND the troops. I wasn’t a fan of the war at the beginning, but we are there now and we are winning. The number of U.S. combat deaths in September dropped 86 percent from where they were a year ago for September, making it one of the least deadly months since the war began. Violence against Iraqi civilians is also down about 70%. We've turned over more and more provinces to Iraqi control...their infrastructure is being rebuilt and their economy is on the rise. Iraq's oil production is up to around 2.5 million barrels per day and they just posted a budget SURPLUS of $70 billion. In fact, the Surge has worked so well, it now seems that we will start withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq. WOOT!
2) Flag-burning is our right as Americans, but if I see someone burning a flag, I will send glares your way. Why? For me, our flag symbolizes my hopes for our country, our troops, our way of life, and all of those who have fought for it. If you want to make a statement, fantastic. Make a sign, organize a march, get involved!! You can make much more of a difference doing the above then burning a flag.
3) I believe taxes are need to a certain extent, but personal responsibility should remain on the forefront of our minds! I don’t want my money going to some research study concerning cross breeding two types of fish. I don’t want my money going to someone else’s heath care unless they have a serious life-threatening problem. I do NOT want it going to someone who by choice dropped out of high school, and surprisingly can’t find a job. I want to save my money for my retirement and my children’s future.
4) I believe that the life begins at conception. I believe that all abortion should be illegal, except in cases that risk the mother’s health. People can do whatever they want, have sex with whoever they want, with as many people as they want. That is their choice. Once a woman becomes pregnant though, all of that goes out the window. I think adoption should be focused on more.
5) I am not the hugest fan of W., but I don’t think he is evil or stupid, and I certainly don’t hate him.
6) I also believe that everyone has the right to practice whatever religion they want to. I believe in the separation of church and State. However, I am annoyed when I see the full fledged attack on Christians in our media, schools, and general society. If half of the things I hear demeaning Christianity were said about the Jewish faith or the Islamic religion, there would be a revolt. Just saying.
7) I like guns. I go to the fire range every other week to shoot guns. I don’t mind backround checks, or mental heath checks, but don’t even try to take away my guns! I’m sorry, but if someone enters my home in the middle of the night and starts up the stairs where my baby girl sleeps, I am using my gun and I aim well.
Cheers. 
Nothing like a child growing up to learn he/she is a product of rape.
for me the rape issue is a red herring. abortion shouldn't require justification. my body, my decision, full stop.
Original Post by santonacci:
Original Post by crazineko:
I don't want people to be placed in jail for having an abortion. No way. If abortion is illegal, then the doctors or persons performing the abortion should be prosecuted.
What if a doctor isn't involved? That is, a woman brought into the hospital for what appears to be a miscarriage, which is later found out to be an induced miscarriage by any number of means at a woman's disposal. Should something happen to the woman then?
It is completely illogical to jail abortion providers and not the women that seek out their services. It would be like prosecuting hit men and not the people who hire them. (Note: I am using the analogy for illustrative purposes, I do not personally believe that abortion is murder).
Furthermore, should abortion become illegal again in the U.S. (BTW, the next president will be appointing the Supreme Court justice that will decide the fate of Roe v. Wade), self-induced methods of abortion, by medication that is available without a prescription in many countries including Mexico, would rapidly become the most common means of procuring an illegal abortion. So who would you jail in those circumstances? If it's murder, you have to jail someone, right? Or does it seem wrong to jail desperate women because, somewhere deep inside, you realize how ludicrous it is to compare an zygote/embryo to a person?
Honestly, I prefer my radical pro-lifers to be honest and internally consistent. If you honestly believe abortion is murder, there is no possible reason to not join the people who are bombing clinics and shooting doctors and otherwise being domestic terrorists. If there really are over a million "people" being murdered each year, then failing to stop it by any means necessary means that you are worse than the people who stood by and watched the Nazi atrocities and did nothing. Yet even anti-abortion activists, when asked, hedged on stating how much jail time women should receive for having an abortion. Why is that? Where is the courage of your convictions in this situation? In what other circumstance of murder, other than frank self-defense, would the murderer be excused from legal penalty because of "sympathy"?
If you don't like abortion but don't believe that an embryo is a person (and therefore don't approve of criminalizing abortion), then congratulations, you're pro-choice. You don't have to like abortion to be pro-choice, you just have to be willing to recognize that it's another person's right to do what they want with their uterus.
I think the positions that a: one cannot allow abortion and b: no one can have 'my money' for social programs are sort of at odds.
If you are prepared to force births, musn't you also be prepared to pay for the care and advancement of the unwanted child? It is obvious that not all children born would be adopted.
Not attacking here. Just trying to understand what the 'conservative' position actually is, as a whole, since the liberal one has become the object of so much derision.
Original Post by pgeorgian:
for me the rape issue is a red herring. abortion shouldn't require justification. my body, my decision, full stop.
agree - because I think it is nearly impossible to properly legislate any other version. It is either legal or not - if it is, no exceptions other than setting a time limit to make up your mind.
'gator, i said that. didn't i say that? #20? i feel like i'm screaming in a tornado, here.
I guess my point was more that the result of forced births would be an even greater increase in social spending, which would seem at odds with the plan.
no, no tornado, just some conversation. :)
I find it interesting that abortion rights is the primary topic for debate. Is that really the extent of the differences between the two parties?
Original Post by kathygator:
I guess my point was more that the result of forced births would be an even greater increase in social spending, which would seem at odds with the plan.
no, no tornado, just some conversation. :)
I find it interesting that abortion rights is the primary topic for debate. Is that really the extent of the differences between the two parties?
right, except for all those, rich, white, god-fearing republicans just waiting to adopt all the poor rape babies.
and yeah - i don't understand why there still is a debate about abortion.
The first year's worth of unwanted babies would probably get adopted out. Maybe even the first two years' worth. Then the market would be saturated and orphanages would be required once again.
And pg, if you think about it you can come up with lots of reasons why this debate will not end until we actually have gender equality in this world. Heck, even in Canada we had to fight the same fight all over again recently, with bill C-484.
Hell, even McCain is pro-choice for Pete's sake.
#30: Dunno about that Trust. Unless one accepts the assumption that to be a feminist, one must neccessarily be an atheist?
Original Post by kathygator:
Hell, even McCain is pro-choice for Pete's sake.
No he's not, kathy. He has a 0% pro-choice voting record.
Furthermore, his choice of Palin has made it quite clear where his loyalties lie on the issue, and whom he would appoint to the Supreme Court (again, the next justice appointed, if anti-abortion, will swing the court against Roe v. Wade - and Stevens, who is pro-choice, is 88 years old).
Original Post by kathygator:
I think the positions that a: one cannot allow abortion and b: no one can have 'my money' for social programs are sort of at odds.
I did not saying that all social programs should not be funded by taxes, Kathy. Non-profits are also a great source for women to find jobs, childcare, temporary housing ect, and usually more efficient.
If you are prepared to force births, musn't you also be prepared to pay for the care and advancement of the unwanted child? It is obvious that not all children born would be adopted.
Agreed.
Not attacking here. Just trying to understand what the 'conservative' position actually is, as a whole, since the liberal one has become the object of so much derision.
Conservatives in general believe that taxes should be used as a last resort and that we as citizens should help each other. Americans are generous when given the choice. Thank you for not attacking.
Don't understand what you mean about atheism, kathy.
Original Post by kathygator:
#30: Dunno about that Trust. Unless one accepts the assumption that to be a feminist, one must neccessarily be an atheist?
i don't follow, 'gator.
Well most that object to abortion do it on religious grounds. So regardless of whether or not there were complete equality, there would still be an anti-choice population, or am I being too simplistic?
"If you don't like abortion but don't believe that an embryo is a person (and therefore don't approve of criminalizing abortion), then congratulations, you're pro-choice. You don't have to like abortion to be pro-choice, you just have to be willing to recognize that it's another person's right to do what they want with their uterus."
Trustwomen,
I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't know a single prochoicer who thinks abortion is a better alternative than preventing unwanted pregnancies. Has anyone heard the phrase, "Oh, Goodie! I get to have an abortion!!! Yippee!" Of course not. Calling anyone "pro-abortion" is propaganda, pure and simple.
BTW, Crazy, I respect your opinions. However, I am annoyed that your thread shows up on "Hot Forum Topics," and mine doesn't.
Original Post by kathygator:
I find it interesting that abortion rights is the primary topic for debate. Is that really the extent of the differences between the two parties?
I forgot to mention gay and lesbian rights in my original post...
