Am I an evil conservative hate-monger? ::The other side to Phylbean's post:: :)

 

Or just a good conservative?

 

This thread is explores the “other side” of the Phylbean post titled “Am I unpatriotic”.  P.S. Phylbean, the answer is no.

 

1)      I do support the war in Iraq, the surge, AND the troops.  I wasn’t a fan of the war at the beginning, but we are there now and we are winning.  The number of U.S. combat deaths in September dropped 86 percent from where they were a year ago for September, making it one of the least deadly months since the war began. Violence against Iraqi civilians is also down about 70%. We've turned over more and more provinces to Iraqi control...their infrastructure is being rebuilt and their economy is on the rise. Iraq's oil production is up to around 2.5 million barrels per day and they just posted a budget SURPLUS of $70 billion. In fact, the Surge has worked so well, it now seems that we will start withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq.  WOOT! 

2)      Flag-burning is our right as Americans, but if I see someone burning a flag, I will send glares your way.  Why?  For me, our flag symbolizes my hopes for our country, our troops, our way of life, and all of those who have fought for it.  If you want to make a statement, fantastic.  Make a sign, organize a march, get involved!!  You can make much more of a difference doing the above then burning a flag. 

3)      I believe taxes are need to a certain extent, but personal responsibility should remain on the forefront of our minds!  I don’t want my money going to some research study concerning cross breeding two types of fish.  I don’t want my money going to someone else’s heath care unless they have a serious life-threatening problem.  I do NOT want it going to someone who by choice dropped out of high school, and surprisingly can’t find a job.  I want to save my money for my retirement and my children’s future. 

4)      I believe that the life begins at conception.  I believe that all abortion should be illegal, except in cases that risk the mother’s health.  People can do whatever they want, have sex with whoever they want, with as many people as they want.  That is their choice.  Once a woman becomes pregnant though, all of that goes out the window.  I think adoption should be focused on more. 

5)       I am not the hugest fan of W., but I don’t think he is evil or stupid, and I certainly don’t hate him. 

6)      I also believe that everyone has the right to practice whatever religion they want to.  I believe in the separation of church and State.  However, I am annoyed when I see the full fledged attack on Christians in our media, schools, and general society.  If half of the things I hear demeaning Christianity were said about the Jewish faith or the Islamic religion, there would be a revolt.  Just saying. 

7)      I like guns.  I go to the fire range every other week to shoot guns.   I don’t mind backround checks, or mental heath checks, but don’t even try to take away my guns!  I’m sorry, but if someone enters my home in the middle of the night and starts up the stairs where my baby girl sleeps, I am using my gun and I aim well.

Cheers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Original Post by kathygator:

Well most that object to abortion do it on religious grounds. So regardless of whether or not there were complete equality, there would still be an anti-choice population, or am I being too simplistic?

well, most (all?) pro-lifers may be religious, but not all religious people are pro-lifers, right?  so i hope we don't have to wait until everyone comes around to my way of thinking ;)

Original Post by kathygator:

Well most that object to abortion do it on religious grounds. So regardless of whether or not there were complete equality, there would still be an anti-choice population, or am I being too simplistic?

Well, it's worth pointing out that I don't know of any religion that actually encompasses true equality between men and women, at least in their texts and guidelines. Certainly the ones that tend to oppose abortion, such as Christianity, also include such gems as considering rape to be a property crime (against another man, natch) and don't allow women equality either in their social roles, their sexuality, or in the church hierarchy.

I suppose that religious faith and practice could be transformed to include such things, indeed there are many sects of Christianity that have literally rewritten the divine orders and promote gender equality, but those sects also tend to be pro-choice.

#35: But....doesn't the recent 'rescue' (bailout) negate the position that taxes should be used as a last resort?

As far as Americans being generous there are private citizens, who in hard economic times reduce charitable spending and corporate philanthropy which is tax deductible - so in a way we're still paying, right? With less control over who gets helped?

 

Original Post by pgeorgian:

well, most (all?) pro-lifers may be religious....

 No, not all, but most are.

and I guess the point I'm making about social spending is: who gets to choose what to fund? Why are the elderly any more deserving of cheap healthcare than middle-aged people? Why is congress more deserving than a waitress?

 

Original Post by crazineko:

Original Post by kathygator:

4. Even in cases of rape and/or incest? And why should an abortion be an acceptable alternative in the case of the mother's health? Isn't that also God's will?  You have to be able to defend the postion 100% of the time, especially if you want to put people in jail for having the procedure.

As for the health issue, if the mother's life is at risk, then i do believe abortion should be an option, but this would be up to the mother.  Some mother's would choose to save the baby, but it's a life for a life. 

 

 In an ectopic pregnancy and several other instances where the mother's life would be at risk, there is no chance of survival for the baby.

Original Post by moonikins:

Here are my replies to the OP's list:

 

1) I was vehemently opposed to us invading Iraq. I didn't believe we had good reason to invade Iraq and that was proven. Once we did though I supported the troops. I was not at all surprised when the war went sour because there was no planning for what to do after the initial invasion was over. I have been very happy that the surge worked so well. I still believe we never should have been there in the first place. I don't know why you think your views on this first point are so conservative.  Because most liberals were wanting to pull out, even earlier this year.  These same folks said that the surge would not work.  One of the major platforms that the dems had when assuming the majority in congress was that they were going to end the war and pull out immediately. 

2) I don't want our flag burned either. I do however support the right to do so. I'd say you are a minority as a conservative to think we have the right to do so.  I don’t think so, but that is my opinion.

3) I believe we are all in the same boat and that the boat won't stay afloat without all of us working together and helping each other. I believe I am responsible on a moral basis for the plight of all my fellow people and where I can aid I will. I don't believe many of the programs as they are now funded really work or work efficiently.  I agree with the Italicized statement.  We are a generous nation, but I don’t want the government taking my money and spending it on a program that is not efficient or does not work.  I would like to decide where my money goes.

4) I believe that the zygote/embryo is alive. I do not believe this trumps the woman's rights in any way.

5) I don't believe W is evil. I do believe he is stupid in many ways. I don't believe he is the true president, I believe that person is Cheney, and Bush is just munipulated into doing/saying whatever Cheney and his other cronies want him to do. I'm not sure he'll ever realize this though. I don't hate him personally. I hate what he has done to our country.  I do not believe the Bush/Cheney puppet idea that is frequently thrown around.  I just think he has made some bad choices for our nation.

6) Christians by and large have created their own bed. They are just now receiving a backlash that is long overdue.  Not touching this one, unless we want to start another thread.

7) Don't know why you think this makes you a conservative. I and many other liberals believe in the right to bear arms.  Many Liberals want to make guns illegal (ie. the DC gun ban).

 

 

There was a case here in NYC, of a woman who was raped before abortion was legal, and gave the rape-baby up for adoption. When he grew up he found his biological mother and began a terror-campaign against her, stalking her and saying stuff about rape to her, harrassing her at work etc. He's in prison now, I forget the guy's name but it can be googled. I wouldn't put anything with the genetics of my rapist into the world, and I'm glad they gave me EC.

Secondly, the rapist has taken it's victim's autonomy over her body away once, and then there are those who would seek to do it again because "it's irrelevant who the father is", "It's not the baby's fault" etc. Again discounting what the rape victim wishes for her own body.

To (sort of) answer the original question, I think yes, I would call anyone who seeks to do this to a rape victim evil and hatemongering.

Original Post by crazineko:

7) Don't know why you think this makes you a conservative. I and many other liberals believe in the right to bear arms.  Many Liberals want to make guns illegal (ie. the DC gun ban).

Guns were never illegal in DC. 

But that could be said of 25% (or whatever the failure rate is) of all pregnancies, regardless.

See. If you are against it for moral reasons, then in my view, the morality is or should be unshakable. Although I don't agree with trust that you should be bombing clinics, I do think you have to live with all the consequences. Including the possiblity of losing the mother.

Further, how many rich white families would prevail upon their kind old family doctor to say the fetus is not viable in order to perform the abortion?

edit: in response to #47.

 

1. again. I think there are some things being done in Iraq that have nothing to do with the surge. Bob Woodward has been pretty deep inside the administration with his new book and has come out and said there are tactical maneuvers being executed that are not being publicized. Maher asked him "what do you mean, exploding gift baskets?" and his response was "that's not too far off."

3. That is not a singly conservative view, crazy. And if we look at how the war was executed up until fall of last year - we see that was the biggest most inefficient use of your money imaginable.

5. The Cheney influence in the administration is well documented on both sides of the aisle. It's not political brow beating.

 

 

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by crazineko:

7) Don't know why you think this makes you a conservative. I and many other liberals believe in the right to bear arms.  Many Liberals want to make guns illegal (ie. the DC gun ban).

Guns were never illegal in DC. 

 This is what I am refering to.. Please read the first few paragraphs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17538139/

Original Post by kathygator:

But that could be said of 25% (or whatever the failure rate is) of all pregnancies, regardless.

See. If you are against it for moral reasons, then in my view, the morality is or should be unshakable. Although I don't agree with trust that you should be bombing clinics, I do think you have to live with allthe consequences. Including the possiblity of losing the mother.

Further, how many rich white families would prevail upon their kind old family doctor to say the fetus is not viable in order to perform the abortion?

edit: in response to #47.

 

this might be alarmist, but i also worry about the next step: if you're going to force a woman to carry a fetus she doesn't want, how far do you go to guarantee the health and well-being of that fetus?

what if she doesn't want to take her pre-natal vitamins?  what if she wants to go mountain climbing in her third trimester?  what if she wants to consume nothing but white bread, vodka, and cigarettes throughout her pregnancy?  are you going to incarcerate her and force her to eat her broccoli?

Original Post by crazineko:

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by crazineko:

7) Don't know why you think this makes you a conservative. I and many other liberals believe in the right to bear arms.  Many Liberals want to make guns illegal (ie. the DC gun ban).

Guns were never illegal in DC. 

 This is what I am refering to.. Please read the first few paragraphs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17538139/

I know what you were refering to (and the article is pretty dated, the ruling it discusses was appealed up to, and upheld by, the supreme court).

It doesn't chance the fact that guns were never illegal and were never banned in DC.  DC put limits on the type of gun a person can own, as have every other jurisdiction in the US.

 

'xactly. (edit in response to PG)

In fact I think it is the 'slippery slope' in many conservative views that concerns me more than the actual position.

yeah.  and suppose the fetus that i'm carrying, that i don't want, but that someone plans to adopt, turns out to have a terrible (but not life-threatening) birth defect?  whose baby is it now?  the adoptive family isn't going to take it, because there's now no shortage of perfect, chubby-cheeked, adoptable babes out there.  so do i--who never wanted the damn thing in the first place--have to mother it?  even though i don't want it, may not love it, don't have the financial, maternal, social resources to care for it?

58: another 'xactly'.