The Exception or the Rule? - Debate

Hello Everyone.

I have been a long time reader of these boards but this is my first post. During my time reading these boards I have read and learned a lot about successful weight loss tips whether it be eating-related or exercise-related. I haven't incorporated a whole lot of what has been discussed on these boards into my daily regimen as I've wanted to sort of try my own thing and see how successful I could be with it.

Anyways, I'm a 23 year old male and started my lifestyle change 11 weeks ago during the last week of September. At that point I weighed 337 pounds with a BMI of 38.0. Not terribly overweight/obese, but enough that I a) decided that I didn't want to be dealing with health problems 5 years down the road, and b) wanted to improve my appearance as I was getting sick of being "the fat one."

Since starting 11 weeks ago I have changed my lifestyle a lot. Gone are the days of 5,000+ calories a day, skipping breakfast and sitting around doing nothing. Replacing those days are the days of healthy, controlled eating and regular exercise. Since making this change, I have gone to eating 5 small meals a day (including breakfast) for a total of 1650 calories per day, give or take 50-100 either way. I drink a lot of water... to the tune of 100+oz or so per day. My work-out routine consists of an hour on the treadmill (running/jogging at 5 minute intervals) and some light lifting, 5 days a week. All of this has equated to a 64 pound loss in those short 11 weeks and a drop in my BMI from 38.0 to 30.8. This is what brings me to my point.

According to a lot of posts I see on this site, my calorie deficit is probably too low. The issue that I take with that is that I constantly see people posting on here about how too low of a deficit will lead to starvation mode and a stalling of the weight loss process. However, I am continuing to lose 4 or 5 pounds a week as recently as last week. I know it isn't muscle as I've noticed a definite toning process going on through my lower and upper legs as well as my upper chest area and arms (I've heard that a lot of use on the treadmill can be a great tool for toning). I'm currently about 30-35 pounds away from my goal weight and have a bit of the belly/butt flab to lose and a little more off of my face

For those who read this site on a daily basis, you will see what my dilemma is. According to many, I shouldn't be losing this much weight this fast. On the other hand, it's hard for me to justify changing my ways when I've been this successful so far. So I must ask, am I doing anything damaging here or is it possible for some people to simply lose weight this quickly? I look forward to any and all input that you may have.

(For the record, this wasn't meant to be a bragging or holier than thou type of post. When I went back and read the preview it kind of came across that way which is definitely not my intent. I just didn't see any other possible way of getting the right answer and good feedback without explaining my situation fully).

Sounds like a very good genuine question and not holier then thou. I am not a nutritionist or anything and don't know if you are doing any kind of damage but I would say if what your doing is working then keep at it as long as nothing bad is going on in your body or causing damage. Good luck

I have heard that when you have a lot of weight to lose it's okay to lose 3 or 4 pounds a week. 

Now I don't have much weight to lose (30-40 pounds total) But I was eating 1100-1200 calories a day for a while (most likely not enough because I'm only 18) and losing weight and feeling great for about 3 months but then all of a sudden last week I was just hungry all the time and couldn't control myself.  Like my body was telling me it wanted more, so I don't really know.  I know this doesn't really answer your question but it's just a little story that I thought kind of related :)

As for where you are right now, I say great and congratulations! Keep in mind though that some of the weight you are losing is water weight, and you'll probably hit a plateau pretty soon. Otherwise, I'd say you're doing great...maybe increase your intake of fresh fruits and veggies a bit to get a few extra calories and vitamins and minerals, and rock on!

I say congrats on the success, and keep on doing what you are doing, until your body tells you otherwise.  Your problem will be like mine most likely.  Knowing when to increase your cals to ward off the dreaded starvation mode. 

The CC burn tool is telling me I burned 5600+ cals today, and I'll probably end up at around 3600 cal intake.  So that will be something around a 2000 cal deficit.  I don't do that every day, because I tend to be a bit cranky when I hit starvation mode.  But I generally run a 1000+ deficit.

I also know, that as I approach goal weight, I will not be able to have the large weight losses of the past.  I really believe that a slow and easy decent through the last 50 pounds is one of the keys to long term success.  But I still have about 130 pounds to go.  So I keep on keppin on!!

Congrats again!! 

Keep us updated!!

Thanks everyone for the support!

shia: That's basically what I was thinking. If it's not broke, why fix it?

whisper: I've heard that too and have had a couple of friends that have lost weight say the same thing. They were able to shed a lot of weight early on and then slowed down. I'm coming up to being 3 months in and so far I haven't felt hungry. I mean, I feel hungry right before my usual meal times but that's because my metabolism seems to be revved up a lot more than it used to be. Before I started I would just grab something like a bag of chips and eat, not because I was hungry... just for the taste basically. My metabolism was garbage before I started working out and spreading out my meals.

julie:  Yeah I figured quite a bit would be water weight. Before I started I had quite a high sodium intake so I'm sure that I was retaining a ton of water. Do you think much of that weight coming off now would be water weight?

duke: I have already noticed that the weekly losses have been less and less over the past month. While I am still losing 4 or 5 pounds a week, I was losing around 8-8.5 for about 3-4 weeks and then it went down to 6, and then down again. I have actually upped my cals once already. When I started I was taking in about 1100 per day. I was fine for about 6 weeks until one morning I woke up with a headache and was feeling a bit dizzy. I knew that was my body telling me that I needed to eat more so I added another 500-600 per day and have been fine since then. I'd expect that something similar will happen again down the road as more weight comes off and I get closer to maintenance.

Once again, thanks to everyone for the comments and feel free to add more! 

You almost certainly are losing muscle mass with that big a weight-loss per week.  Most likely, the only reason you are seeing tone is because you have cut off some of the fat layer that was covering your muscles.  I am currently losing weight as well, about 1 pound per week and in spite of 3 or 4 heavy weight lifting sessions per week and a high protein diet, I am losing muscle mass.  I am also getting stronger at the same time because beginners can get stronger but still be losing muscle mass at the same time.

BMI is not a helpful indicator to determine if you are losing muscle, you should have your body fat percentage measured.

The reason people advise not to lose several pounds per week is because those who do typically end up flabby with a lot of lose skin and it is difficult to fix that once it has happened.  If you watch The Biggest Loser, you will notice no matter how thin those people get, they typically have no muscle tone.  That is because they lost a ton of muscle right along with the fat.  Screwing up metabolism from loss of muscle while dieting is a big reason why most regain their weight once they go off their diets. 

I will have to say the above post is the norm, and for most folk I would agree.  But then there are we Mega Heavy folk.  The rules just do not apply to us the same way.  I am running these high deficits, and I am certain I am putting ON muscle mass. 

However, I do believe this is because I am eating up towards the daily recommended maximum in protein, and I am working out hard and heavy.  Without good strong workouts I am sure I would be losing muscle mass as well. 

Also, for a lot of Mega Heavies out there, getting off 40 to 60 pounds is worth some muscle mass loss.  I'm sure I lost quit a bit of muscle when I first started my progam at the beginning of this year.  But I also deopped off 100+ pounds in the process.  I think the small amount of muscle loss was worth the weight loss. 

And then I found the keys to keeping the muscle in place.  Lots of protein, good hard workouts, keeping the cals up so your body doesn't think you are starving, and lots, and lots of rest. 

It can be done, but it takes commitment to stick to the plan even if things look like they are not working!!

Stay Strong!!  You are on the right path!!

 

This may be a dumb question, but since you say you are a 23 year old male and a lot of people on here are female and usually older than 23....could it be that your youth and your gender are your friends?  It is true that it is easier to lose weight when you are younger and that men lose weight more quickly....so maybe just say thanks to God that he got you doing this as a young man?  Get it off now, up your calories a lot to maintenance after those last 30 are gone and celebrate!
You are doing awesome!!

^^^^VERY WELL SAID^^^^

I am not a nutritionist or a health care provider, but I am, like many other obese, well-informed about dieting and exercise. Your regime sounds doable and beneficial. You are primarily losing fat and gaining muscle tone and mass. Keep up the good work!

Only start worrying if you feel yourself lacking energy, or feeling cold or fuzzy-headed or sick or really hungry.

As you are describing it, you're doing fine. Sure, you're losing some muscle mass but most obese people (who have been mobile, anyway) have "extra" muscle too - you probably have insanely muscular legs, for one.

God, to be male, 23, 6'7" (by my calculations) and motivated to exercise...

You'll be eating more during maintenance than lots of us ate when we got fat. ;)

My big problem here is figuring out what it means to lose muscle.  Some research suggests that the quantity of muscle fiber remains constant but the fibers can grow or shrink.  During the past 45 years my body weight has gone from 150 to 210 and back down to 170.  But as fas as I can tell my lean body mass has stayed constant plus or minus a per cent or two over the last 45 years.  So it is difficult to see how I have gained or lost muscle even though I can point to indicators that my strength has delined over the last 20 years or so.  On the other hand, this year I have ridden more than 4000 miles on my bike, including 105 miles on one Saturday in September.

At any rate, this brings me to my second problem.  I have only recently paid attention to %BF and calories.  So I can't really say what my lean body mass was during my track and cross country days.  I think it would be fair to say that I was sporting something like 10% BF.  That would have given me a lean body mass of about 135.  I did some checking in my 200 pound days and came up with a lean body mass of 140 to 145.  So maybe I gained 5 to 10 pounds of lean body mass (about 5% to 10%) during my Army and Martial Arts days.  But I certainly didn't lose much of it while I was getting from 207 to 187 on a very low cal diet. (Can't say how low because I wasn't counting calories.  But when I was put on a 1600 calorie diet for a week, it seemed like way too much food.)  During that weight loss period (207 to 187), I was working out for about 30 minutes 3 or 4 days a week at the gym plus some stretching at home.  I have evidence of weight loss and evidence of decreasing %BF (my waist decreased 2 sizes) but I don't see any evidence of muscle loss.

So I would appreciate an explanation of what it means to lose muscle.

In the meantime, Sportfan, I say stick with it.  I used the same approach for 5 years and it worked for me.  Right now I am more worried about distracted drivers than I am about muscle degeneration.

"Losing muscle" means muscle atrophy. Basically muscle proteins are degraded (in the case of weight loss, they are broken down for fuel) faster than they are rebuilt (through exercise - but you need adequate food intake to power that reconstruction).

Hope that helps.

I don't know. I didn't strictly follow the site's recommendations for calorie intake, as they were too high and would have taken forever. Rather than aiming to eat my BMR calories for the weight I was when I started, I decided to eat the BMR calories for my goal weight. So that way, when I get to the goal weight, I can just adjust upwards to a maintenance intake.

I feel great, am lifting weights to keep toned, have plenty of energy and am not lightheaded. I can't imagine I'm in starvation mode or that my metabolism has slowed down, because I have more energy than ever. One thing, though, I have been eating a lot of protein, multivitamins, and lots of fresh fruit and colored vegetables, IE a high-nutrient diet - Almost everything I eat is made from scratch, so I am probably getting more nutrients than when I ate twice as many calories per day of junk.

So although I'm eating 1600-1800 calories per day, I imagine I'm getting a lot more nutrients than someone eating the same number of calories all in processed and "diet" packaged food products.

I agree with the warnings to not go below 1200 cal for women, 1500 cal for men - this is not a healthy way to lose weight, but if you are very careful to get a lot of nutrient-dense foods every day rather than "empty calories", I think it should be okay to eat less than the site's recommendations. The test is how you feel - is your hair shiny? Does your skin look good? Do you have plenty of energy and alertness? Fingernails okay? Are you losing weight steadily, but not at an insane pace? Then you should be fine.

 

I have lost consistently at a pace of about 2.5 lbs per week for 4 months - it's so steady that the line on my graph is almost perfectly straight, even though I weigh daily.

But the risky part is maintenance. Going back to the "old ways" is a recipe for disaster. I want to continue to eat the way I eat now for the rest of my life, just in slightly larger portions. I don't want to go back to eating empty calorie junk - I felt like crap then.

Even though you are feeling stronger does not mean that you haven't lost muscle mass.  It just means that your muscles are becoming more efficient with use.  It's ok to lose muscle mass, as long as you feel healthy and are able to do the things that you want to be able to do.