1200+exercise - the magic formula. Beware of eating too FEW calories.

This is something I just posted somewhere...but I gather many newbies come here first so........

 

EVERYBODY IS EATING TOO LITTLE! The rule is 1200 + exercise. 1200 is the minimum for a woman. If you eat 1200 then burn 300 you are giving your precious body only 900 calories! that will put you into starvation mode and you won't lose anything. Well, only muscle mass.

Read this: http://www.calorie-count.com/forums/post/1223 0.html

 

Besides that rule, the standard is a deficit of no more than 1000. Most do better between 500-700. I personally can't do 1000 without stalling. A lot depends on your current weight, but generally only people who weigh 120 NOW need to eat 1200+exercise to maintain. For most of us it's a lot more. You can DO it...eat 1200+ exercise (otherwise known as 'eating back your exercise') but you risk starvation mode, loose skin, diet mentality and not sustaining a diet/lifestyle that you will keep forever. Anyways...read and decide for yourselves.

Actually, You should count carbs. Less carbs= loosing weight.

**Deleted advertising content.**

^^ this person is a spammer. In case that hadn't been obvious.

I'm not a spammer. I am an advocate. This works!!!

seriously.

But you're right, there are a whole lot of little pro-ana girls coming on here all of a sudden, with their profile pages saying that they want to get to 82 pounds or something batshit crazy like that, not even wanting to change this, just trying to compete with each other and get people to say how much they eat etc... to feed the crazy.

Mods? When will you start getting involved, beyond the occasional gentle warning? Why does something have to be "evangelist-ana" to get blocked, not just "pro-ana"?

Me, I'm done. People who realize that they have a problem and want help (which is ALL of the overweight people and a fair chunk of the ED people too), I'm happy to read their stories and offer support. But everyone who's pro-ana (wanting to reach or stay at an unhealthily low weight, or wanting to reach or stay at an unhealthily low food intake) I'm just blocking them. Makes a few of the threads pretty damn sparse, and makes me worried that some of the advice I am trying to offer is just being undermined one post below, by something I can't see, but it's necessary for my well-being so I refuse to unblock it and/or get into a pissing contest with anyone.

Now, I'm not someone who happens to be at risk of becoming anorexic because of them - but a pile of people on this site are vulnerable to it and I wish that CC would be more active at stopping the spread of this highly contagious mental disorder. I am not, however, going to take it upon myself to try to undo the damage that is clearly being done on these forums by these sick girls - I was a counselor for too long, I'm not getting paid and don't have the energy or the time. I'm here for my own health now.

Sorry if I offended miss counceler... just trying to help.

seriously, sorry.... Good luck with your health.

Good Lord, what happened!  I was trying to help newbies, not start an argument.  BUT, for the record...I counted carbs up the wazoo....lost 20lbs and not a jot more. Then I gained back 50.  Counting carbs DOESN't work long term.  Eating sensibly, exercising, and changing your LIFE = loose weight.

trustwomen,

I think we've discussed this before, but I'll answer publicly. Erik and Igor truly believe that their mission, that our mission on this site is to give everyone the tools they need to lose weight safely and healthfully. To that extent, they've given us tools like the calorie counter and the allowance and expenditure calculators, and they've given us these communities so people can get the motivation and support they need to keep chugging.

However, most people, upon arriving, don't know how to do things healthfully. Some do, but most, it seems, don't know to eat enough, don't know what starvation mode is, don't understand why diet pills and fad diets don't work.

So we educate them, all of them, to the best we can. We answer their questions, we dance with joy when they do well and take those first tentative steps, we offer groups and challenges and try to get people involved.

People you define as pro-ana (without being evangelist-ana) we see as people who need the education, that we can hopefully help. Some get it quickly, some.. get it in their own time.

If we stop helping them, though, trustwomen.. where will they turn? Will they turn to pro-ana sites that tell them that 84 lbs. is an OK weight for someone 5'7" to weigh? Will they turn to SparkPeople or other sites and get the same level of support and education they can get here?

I think that what makes this site SUPERIOR to the competition is the community. It's the huge amount of support, information and general caring you can find here, in the various groups, challenges and cliques.

No matter who you are, no matter what your problem, there's someone here with experience who can help you move past it. Whether that's learning how to eat enough, to recover from anorexia or bulimia or binge eating disorder, whether it's self-esteem issues and just learning to love yourself.

Erik and Igor don't want to turn people away. They want EVERYONE to find what they're looking for here. Everyone.

But in the end, that's really why we do our best to tread lightly, to offer education, to try to make people listen, because the alternatives are potentially grim and Erik and Igor wants to provide assistance as we can.

If you think it's easy for us, to tread lightly, to continue to educate people who don't always want to listen, than you have HUGE misconceptions of who we are and how we tick. We're people just like you. We get frustrated when we put ourselves out there and people don't listen. We get frustrated with the constant stream of badly educated people.

BUT.. this is the job we do because we want to help Calorie-Count.com succeed, because this site is EXTREMELY important to all of us for our own various reasons.

I'm done. You may commence bitching us mods out now.

I have to give a nod to Trustwomen on this one.  I am new here, just started posting this last week, but I have been reading for a month.  Some days the young girls who are fanatically trying to lose weight that they should not post so much that I just leave. 

And I know this is not a pc statement, but the fact is there are less kids with anarexia than there are kids who want to have it becuase mental illness is cool amoung the teen set.    It's pathetic, really, but true none-the-less.   I had never even heard of it until 10 years ago, and now the girls compete for who has the worst case.  If they can't take the hunger and weakness of ana, they cut, or some other nonesense.  

And no, I am not belittling mental illness, but these kids who strive for it, and sometimes even achieve the illness they wish to appear that they have, certainly are doing just that.   

Yes, I know.  I expect an edit.  And I won't complain.  But it would be nice if more people spoke out against this very harmful fad that is seriously hurting our kids.

Again - wow.  For the record, mods, this site rules.  Changed my life, lengthened it, gave me hope.  I truly thought I could never lose weight and eat sensibly.  I felt deprived and disillusioned.

I've been on here almost every day for 4 months.  I've come across ONE post that was clearly someone ill/promoting ana.  That post was removed.   It's not just young girls posting drastic weights and panic.  I've done my share of the latter, and see LOTS of 30-somethings wanting to lose 30lbs in a month.   It's not about age in the end is it.  It's the learning curve. I for one am grateful this site was hear when I paniced at my stall/gain/whatever!  As we say in recovery - in this post and the whole site - take what you need, and leave the rest.

Love and Light,  Z 

kay + trustwomen - I have to agree with you that it's frustrating to read so many of those posts.

I think that once school's back in session, tho, the number of bored teens looking for attention will dwindle.  I don't remember reading so many posts from so many teens trying to get to/maintain such low weights between Jan-May.

with every site, there is going to be a few attention-seekers. 

I'm glad we have such caring, dedicated mods -- they are, after all, volunteering their time to keep us all happy and friendly to each other.  I don't envy their jobs either.

 

To start an entirely DIFFERENT argument... *lol*... I am neiter pro ana... nor do I believe in "eating back."  in the way it's stated.  I may change my mind later!  I do know that I was not happy at 1200 calories a day... HOWEVER... I routinely eat 1600-1800  calories a day and exercise for 600-1000 calories a day. 

Granted, when I was eating 1200 with the same rate of exercise, I was prone to binging which stalled... but did not halt weight loss.  I have lost 22 pounds in less than two months, but I am a LARGE woman... large framed and 231 pounds.  I've been working out pretty much consistently for three years (other than a recent five month break).. so my metabolism may be more prepared them some.

According to this site, my defecit generally runs about 1500 calories a day... also has not proven a problem for me as of yet.

I am by no means a diet expert... and have done it the "wrong" way too many times to count... but this time around... it's truly a life style for me... I'm choosing to go the route of eating the same amount of calories and exercising the same way that I will at maintainence... this way I won't have to cut back calories as I get closer.

I understand that this will stall my weight loss SIGNIFICANTLY as I get close to goal... but by that time... it won't really matter to me because my lifestyle is not about a "goal weight" and I'll be healthier, and look and feel better then.

No hard feelings trustwomen or z... you know I love ya'll... our weight loss theories just sometimes differ... and I still thank trustwomen to no end for convincing me to give my calories that bump up...  You saved me from binging my way out of my lifestyle!

Heh, I remember when I first starting dieting, I thought if you ate less you lose more weight.

This site educated me and showed me different..

:D

Not only do I eat normally but oh so very healthy and the recipe forums have improved my cooking skillz...

O_o

The point of my post wasn't to bitch out the mods. I know that what you do is hard. But honestly, I really think that the people at risk are those young women who are overweight and looking to lose healthfully, but who will find themselves influenced by people who are pro-ana. So many cases of disordered eating begin with normal, healthy weight loss, but then the person gets caught up in it and goes too far, and EDs are very "contagious". People who are already sick (i.e. wanting to attain or remain at an unhealthily low weight or intake - and refusing and denying any information or advice to the contrary, i.e. it's not just ignorance) are NOT the ones I worry about on this site.

I worry about the ones who maybe are a little chubby, and are having a hard time with their self-esteem, and here looking for a path... they are seeing a very bad one laid out before them - but perhaps an attractive one, considering the people espousing it are slender and often vehement that their path is just fine. Those who are already sick, i.e. not just ignorant (BTW, I do recognize that some people actually learn from the site and their goals and methods become healthier), well honestly, we won't make much of a difference for them anyway. They need therapy, not an internet forum, and certainly not an internet forum about calorie counting. Whether they go here or a pro-ana site is not going to change much for them. (Recall that I'm talking here about those who are not interested in hearing the truth about healthy living, or in trying to be healthy themselves.)

There is a distinction that can be made here, between people who realize fairly soon that what they want/are doing is unhealthy, vs. those who are really sick and recalcitrant. And I understand if CC doesn't want to block people from accessing the forums, in case they might someday see the light. But in the meantime, letting their posts stand - those posts that could serve as triggers and infectious agents to people who are NOT yet sick - just seems like a bad idea to me. 

I DO appreciate CC and the work done by the mods. Don't think otherwise. I don't mean to sound ungrateful for the work that you do, and for the existence of this site - to which I have already referred friends of mine and to which I will someday refer my patients. I say these things out of concern, that's all. Big activist hugs to you all for the time that you so generously give.

p.s.  Ashley, none of this is about you or kimkins, BTW...

And  yet, sometimes I see these forums as a community with a number of diet-fundamentalists--that is people who believe there is one true way to lose weight and they harass anyone who dares to differ with their orthodoxy. That is the nature of internet communities--they are open markets of opinions. If the moderators start siding with one side in the marketplace, then it upsets the whole community.

today i ate 1900 cals and burned like 1300 and the gym, i just make sure to eat enough protein about 120-150 grams a day and my muscle will stay there during the "starvation mode" like you call it.

I love aovermy's point... about there not being only one "healthy" way to do it.  I appreciate the forums that have open debate about different healthy methods of dieting... and the "what works for me" approach without bashing the others.  Unless of course the others are saying that eating only pickles for five months guarantees weight loss :-) 

supernova it appears that you and I may have a like philosophy.. I do healthy carbs prior to gym workout... big workout... (I don't know if I've ever gotten to 1300 tho.. more like 600-1000) for me... protein after... and I eat 1600-1800 calories a day... supposedly my body is burning 3300 (according to the site)... so it is a large defecit... but not one I believe to be "unhealthy" because of the nutrient rich food I consume... and I take vitamins and all that good junk, too.

...I do believe, however, I would be willing to listen if someone wanted to tell me this was a bad plan.  (I'm glad I listened to trustwomen in the first place when she convinced me 1200 calories is a sedentary minimum for any woman... I'm just not convinced of "eat back"... sorry cat *lol*)

Yeah, I need to clarify that I write 1200+exercise as the MINIMUM.  Some people are confused that 1200 is the minimum no matter what.  THAT's ALL I wanted to share, sheesh.   I personally eat my BMR + exercise.  ISH!  My BMR is around 1700 sedentary.  I exercise/move around about 500-700 per day.  I eat around 1850.  Stats - 231, 5'5", 35 years old.  I couldn't survive on less than 1600.  Only when I'm sick do I eat around 1200, just cuz of appetite.   

Regarding the muscle/starvation/burning 1300 calories...you're muscle may stay, but so will your fat as I understand it.  The body will try to keep as much of it as possible.  The muscle eating comes as the body's last resort, again, as I undestand these things now.  PLUS, I hear that unless you have a heart monitor on at all times, most exercise burning calculations (especially at the gym) can be really off.  That's what I've heard.  Take what you need.....leave the rest. 

<>PS. Here's some more 'science'. I was raised that 'calories are only a measure of heat'. 'they don't count for anything'. I've listened to all the 'other' ideas, tried most of them that make sense. I'm a compulsive eater, I've done work to deal with that and much other of the psycholigical aspects of my weight. I came to CC a total sceptic. My belief in the science that's been around all these years comes from the proof in the pudding - aka. steady, healhty weight loss that doens't leave me hungry or deprived in any way. Am I a magically cured food addict? I don't believe so. Is this a magic diet that will make me lose weight and then I have to eat only 'x,y, z' if I want to keep it off? Nope. I guess I'm a reluctant, but grateful believer. It doesn't make sense, however, on ANY level, to only eat 1200 calories and expect to maintain that for the long term. Nevermind the controversy over 'eating back' etc. That's just science, too I guess. Random thoughts and another link.

http://www.calorie-count.com/forums/post/8517 .html

I totally agree on the 1200 calories thing for a lifetime zeebi  That's where I kept failing.  I'd do really well for months... and then it became too restrictive... and I"d throw the whole thing away *lol*...

As far as the heart rate monitor... I LOVE mine... Polar heart rate monitor.. and for what it's worth... I've worn it for 24 hrs on several occasions just for the fun of it... and I burn just about what cc says I do in a day (give or take 200 calories).

and as far as the 1300 calorie defecit...  I could be convinced to change my mind again if I stall out... but for the last three weeks it's been producing a 2-3 pound a week weight loss, so I'm not messing with a good thing :-)

I've also had my body fat measured, and it has gone down 10% according to the caliper test!   Yay me!  I also have a tanita scale that says it's gone down that much (but oddly enough... my scale gives me a 10% higher rating than the caliper thing... but I think the caliper is more accurate than the scale... at least I'd like to think so :-0 )

Keep in mind that this deficit and "starvation mode" rule only apply to some people.  I for one (already sick with AN but recovering slowly!) didn't have trouble losing weight while eating what is considered in "starvation mode" range.  I wasn't eating NOTHING either, just not enough.  What might halt weight loss for one may not even affect another.