Is this fair?

A health insurance provider in our state just granted children up to the age of 19 a totally free health insurance plan for two years....if they are undocumented.

A majority of people here have NO health insurance for their kids...citizens who were born here. They cannot afford it.

Wow.

Original Post by andie-joe:

 

pg and monarch..... you two need to meet up and have a coffee  

I would pay good money to see this. lulz...two old friends chatting it up.

Original Post by fortius:

Original Post by andie-joe:

 

pg and monarch..... you two need to meet up and have a coffee  

I would pay good money to see this. lulz...two old friends chatting it up.

only if i get 75% of the gate and the movie rights.

 come on it was my idea 65% 

Original Post by andie-joe:

 come on it was my idea 65% 

  70-30, and i'll cut you in on the promo tour.

Done Deal...

Original Post by monarch777:

A health insurance provider in our state just granted children up to the age of 19 a totally free health insurance plan for two years....if they are undocumented.

A majority of people here have NO health insurance for their kids...citizens who were born here. They cannot afford it.

Wow.

What's the details of the plan for citizens? What's the cutoff for not being eligible for child health plus and the like? 200% of poverty level or something? How much is the sliding scale fee for children who are documented? What proportion of people who "can't afford" insurance for their kids actually could do so, because they earn a reasonable salary, but choose not to?

Don't get me wrong, I am a dedicated pinko who believes in universal health care, and that all children and adults should be covered. I'm just pretty sure that the undocumented in your state are not actually getting perks over and above those who have legal status. How many of them, for example, earn minimum wage or above? How many would earn "too much" to qualify for the regular state plan, considering that being undocumented generally means earning far less than even the lowest-paid documented wage earners? I'm guessing few to none.

I say if you're not legal there should be no extra help.  There's plenty of poor legal children in the states who have no healthcare or food but we're always trying to help others--try helping us first. I believe there are still people living in trailers because of Rita--yet money is going overseas to feed others and offer medical services for other countries--and why is that??  Yes no child should die but go back to your country for your own medical doctors--they are usually schooled here for free anyway.  I love when other countries bring in sick kids for cancer treatment--that is paid for by the hospitals yet other legal families are literally going broke trying to save their child, with or without insurance and get no help from their own country.  Sounds harsh but that's why each country has citzenships.  Belong to one and get your paycheck and insurance, or goverment insurance there.  I'm a nurse and I worked in a hospital for 10 years and have seen how families are financially drained, lost everything even with insurance, trying to save their sick kids--and they've worked for it and paid our government and yet they get no help.  What a shame--What a shame for our country!

To answer the OP's question, I don't think it's fair for a group of people to have special privileges based on their ethnicity/nationality.  I think that goes against treating everyone as equals. 

Now I have something to say that doesn't have anything to do with the OP's questions.  I have noticed, not just on this thread but on many, that there are definitely a few cyber bullies on this forum.  I think it is unfortunate, and a bit sad, that women over the age of 13 partake in cyber bullying.  A few people on this website personally attack other posters who have opinions that do not reflect their own.  I think this is a sign of immaturity and probably deters other people from posting. 

Original Post by monarch777:

A health insurance provider in our state just granted children up to the age of 19 a totally free health insurance plan for two years....if they are undocumented.

A majority of people here have NO health insurance for their kids...citizens who were born here. They cannot afford it.

Wow.

I think a big issue has not been addressed here based on the original post:

"A health insurance provider in our state"

This indicates to me that it is a private company providing the insurance.  If this is the case, fair or not, it is their right to do it.  Also if it is a private company, it is not costing tax payers anything, so what is the question here? 

Should everyone have free heathcare?  Absolutely, in my opinion.

Can healthcare professionals make a living if everyone has free healthcare?  No

These are very thorny issues and there is no easy solution.  If there were, even *our* government could have solved them already :)  The healthcare system in this country is broken in some pretty fundamental ways, and the insurance companies, in fact, do not really help the situation because like all businesses, their goal is to make a profit and show returns to their stockholders.  In order to achieve universal coverage to all people, the government has to be the one to provide the coverage.  No private enterprise ever will, because they cannot recoup the cost of providing care to those that cannot afford it.  Say what you want about socialized medicine or a national health service, if you want universal coverage, it is the only way.  I, for one, would much rather have my tax money spent on that then on many of the other things tax dollars get spent on.

I think we all know who the real winner is here

NHS 1 : American system 0

Original Post by medicinalmary:

To answer the OP's question, I don't think it's fair for a group of people to have special privileges based on their ethnicity/nationality.  I think that goes against treating everyone as equals. 

so children should be punished based on their ethnicity/nationality?

the problem, mary, is that we're talking about children who had no choice in where they were born or where they live, no agency in being "undeclared," no power over whether or not their parents can and do buy insurance, and no options to make other choices.

add to that the fact that these kids are at much greater risk of not receiving treatment because of the potential repurcussions to the parents if they do seek treatent and incur debt.

and the idea of "treating everyone as equals" falls apart when you face the fact that everyone isn't equal.

but since monarch won't give us a source for this story, who knows if it's even a real issue?

I'm with PG... It's not these kids fault their parents brought them to the US illegally. Why should they not be ale to get health insurance because of a mistake their parents made. 

Still confused on the details -State insurance? Private? What are the income requirements for state aid? What's the exisiting safety net for poor uninsured children of any residency status?

In Florida all minor children under a certain income level are covered by state aid. Too little info in the post and subsequent posts to determine where the problem lies.

Also a question for Andie: Your illegals work for a paycheck as well, no? So aren't the same taxes taken out of their checks for healthcare, etc. as yours?

The thing that people forget is that the vast majority of illegals employed in the US provide bogus soc sec numbers and bogus proof of status - their paychecks are reduced by all the same taxes that legal employees are - the difference is they rarely file tax returns, so the fed keeps all their dough.

Original Post by kathygator:

Also a question for Andie: Your illegals work for a paycheck as well, no? So aren't the same taxes taken out of their checks for healthcare, etc. as yours?

The thing that people forget is that the vast majority of illegals employed in the US provide bogus soc sec numbers and bogus proof of status - their paychecks are reduced by all the same taxes that legal employees are - the difference is they rarely file tax returns, so the fed keeps all their dough.

They also pay things like sales taxes even if they aren't getting tax money taken out of their paycheck.   

and if they're working under the table--regardless of how much or how little they're making--they can't prove income to qualify for financial aid.  no income records, no proof of poverty.

There are very very few employers in this country that even pay under the table anymore. Too difficult to hide the expense.

In agriculture they used to get around it by paying piece-meal, but those loopholes have been closed up by contract labor laws. The employer has to issue 1099 (contract labor pay statement) and can then easily be red-flagged and audited if the corresponding payroll taxes aren't paid by the contract laborer.

Would venture that alomst all illegals pay medicare, federal, state and social security taxes - in addition to the sales taxes Fortius pointed out.

Original Post by kathygator:

Also a question for Andie: Your illegals work for a paycheck as well, no? So aren't the same taxes taken out of their checks for healthcare, etc. as yours?

 

most definitely not! they work for cash in hand only and declare nothing so they get all the benefits without the outlay that the rest of us have no choice but to pay because we are registered. If i don't work i get a letter from the Inland Revenue asking me what i am living on. But because they are here illegally they get to pocket all their money until they get caught out and that can take years or never.

Pisses me off....

I have no objection to people coming here to work but do it legal and pay your way.....

Original Post by kathygator:

There are very very few employers in this country that even pay under the table anymore. Too difficult to hide the expense.

In agriculture they used to get around it by paying piece-meal, but those loopholes have been closed up by contract labor laws. The employer has to issue 1099 (contract labor pay statement) and can then easily be red-flagged and audited if the corresponding payroll taxes aren't paid by the contract laborer.

Would venture that alomst all illegals pay medicare, federal, state and social security taxes - in addition to the sales taxes Fortius pointed out.

i as thinking more along the lines of domestic workers, etc.  you know - the stereotypical mexican gardener and philipino nanny.  maybe i watch too much TV (well i definitely watch too much TV, but...).

Original Post by andie-joe:

most definitely not! they work for cash in hand only and declare nothing so they get all the benefits without the outlay that the rest of us have no choice but to pay because we are registered.

 People who make as little as illegal immigrants do generally don't pay income taxes to begin with.  The vast majority of their tax burden comes from sales tax and I'm not sure how you think illegal immigrants are getting out of paying that...

sully, andie is in the UK.  her concern is that illegals are taking advantage of the universal health care system and other socialized benefits.  doesn't really compare.