Is this fair?

A health insurance provider in our state just granted children up to the age of 19 a totally free health insurance plan for two years....if they are undocumented.

A majority of people here have NO health insurance for their kids...citizens who were born here. They cannot afford it.

Wow.

Not sure of the specifics referred to in the OP, but I found a couple of news articles about this.

In Wisconsin, the United Way is coordinating an effort to provide care to children who didn't qualify for the state's plan, including children of undocumented workers.  They're working directly with the area hospitals, from the sound of it.

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it, but it would actually be cheaper to provide non-emergency care to such people than to provide it in the emergency room, where the cost is higher and will make our healthcare costs that much higher. And it doesn't sound like the funds are coming from taxpayers (AFAICT)

Yeah - Pg, am certain that still happens - but I'd be willing to bet domestics make up a small percentage of illegals employed in the US.

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by andie-joe:

most definitely not! they work for cash in hand only and declare nothing so they get all the benefits without the outlay that the rest of us have no choice but to pay because we are registered.

 People who make as little as illegal immigrants do generally don't pay income taxes to begin with.  The vast majority of their tax burden comes from sales tax and I'm not sure how you think illegal immigrants are getting out of paying that...

what pg just said, and the fact that we have a minimum wage policy in the UK so all the more reason for them to be legal. If they ain't legal then to bad that they get paid pennies.

And here is an editorial about this issue from the Salt Lake Tribune, but it's just an editorial about legislation about to come before the state assembly. 

They're saying care should be provided to all children, citizens and non-citizens, documented and undocumented.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

sully, andie is in the UK.  her concern is that illegals are taking advantage of the universal health care system and other socialized benefits.  doesn't really compare.

 Are illegals in the UK taking advantage more than legals in the UK? Is the income tax on poor people higher in the UK than the US? Does the UK not have sales tax?  Unless I'm wrong about taxes in the UK it seems to me that illegals pay just as much into the system as poor legal residents, why shouldn't they get just as much out of the system?

Original Post by kathygator:

Yeah - Pg, am certain that still happens - but I'd be willing to bet domestics make up a small percentage of illegals employed in the US.

i would imagine so, yeah.  although from what i've heard/read, some of them are basically slaves.  it happens here, too, especially with asian women: they're sponsored by wealthy families (often immigrant families) and are provided with room and board and nothing else, in exchange for a 7-day, 12-hour work week.

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

sully, andie is in the UK.  her concern is that illegals are taking advantage of the universal health care system and other socialized benefits.  doesn't really compare.

 Are illegals in the UK taking advantage more than legals in the UK? Is the income tax on poor people higher in the UK than the US? Does the UK not have sales tax?  Unless I'm wrong about taxes in the UK it seems to me that illegals pay just as much into the system as poor legal residents, why shouldn't they get just as much out of the system?

i don't know, sully.  i'm canadian.  but income tax in socialized countries is high.  it's doubtful that people working under the table for cash go out of their way to pay income tax (i know i didn't when i was doing it).

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

sully, andie is in the UK.  her concern is that illegals are taking advantage of the universal health care system and other socialized benefits.  doesn't really compare.

 Are illegals in the UK taking advantage more than legals in the UK? Is the income tax on poor people higher in the UK than the US? Does the UK not have sales tax?  Unless I'm wrong about taxes in the UK it seems to me that illegals pay just as much into the system as poor legal residents, why shouldn't they get just as much out of the system?

because they don't pay the whack out of their wage that we do, sales tax doesn't come into it because i think i'm right in saying that you would pay that anywhere in the western world it's the money we are made to pay out of our wages they don't pay and why should they get off with that just because they are poor, even people on Social security here still have to pay their stamp.

Edited

In general, I don't like Rush Limbaugh; however, I thought his take on this subject was pretty interesting.

Rush Limbaugh:

All right, immigration proposals under discussion. Let me add mine to the mix. I want to call this proposal the Limbaugh Laws. …First, if you immigrate to the United States of America, you must speak the native language. You have to be a professional or an investor. [America is] not going to take unskilled workers…There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special ballots for elections, no government business will be conducted in your native language. Foreigners will not have the right to vote…nor will they ever be allowed to hold political office. According to the Limbaugh Laws, if you're in our country, you cannot be a burden to taxpayers. You are not entitled, ever, to welfare, to food stamps, or other government goodies. You can come if you invest here, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage. If you don't now have that amount of money, you can't come and invest. You have to stay home. If you do come and you want to buy land, okay, but we're going to restrict your options. You will not be allowed to buy waterfront property in the United States. That will be reserved for citizens naturally born in this country.

In fact, as a foreigner, you must relinquish individual rights to property… Another thing. You don't have the right to protest when you come here. You're allowed no demonstrations, you cannot wave a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies, or you get sent home. You're a foreigner. You shut your mouth or you get out, and if you come here illegally, you go straight to jail and we're going to hunt you down 'til we find you.

I can imagine many of you think that the Limbaugh Laws are pretty harsh. I imagine today some of you probably are going, "Yeah! Yeah!" Well, let me tell you this, folks. Every one of the laws I just mentioned are actual laws of Mexico, today. I just read you Mexican immigration law. That's how the Mexican government handles immigrants to their country.

 

Last time I checked, this (the U.S.) wasn't Mexico...   I'm not understanding what the immigration policies of Mexico have to do with healthcare for illegals in the U.S.

Am I missing something?

Hee hee. Perhaps those laws explain why so many folks come here from Mexico? I mean if the guests are treated that harshly imagine what happens to the citizens?

Just interesting, thats all. Personally, I side with the assessment of Dr. Victor Davis Hanson. The rate at which Mexicans are immigrating into the US will eventually overwhelm our limited resources. As it is, I am a white american minority in CA because of the amount of immigration to my state.

The problem comes in when you consider the fact that illegal immigrants have no interest in assimilating into american society. Instead, they want to bring mexican society here.

The only two solutions that I see are to keep them out or require them to adhere to a strict assimilation program.

Original Post by simwaves1:

Rush Limbaugh:

 

All right, immigration proposals under discussion. Let me add mine to the mix. I want to call this proposal the Limbaugh Laws. …First, if you immigrate to the United States of America, you must speak the native language Which native language do you have to speak? Cherokee? Souix?. You have to be a professional or an investor. [America is] not going to take unskilled workers so all the jobs for unskilled workers, and the associated skilled jobs will just end up over seas? sounds like a great plan…There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special ballots for elections, no government business will be conducted in your native language. Foreigners will not have the right to vote…nor will they ever be allowed to hold political office. According to the Limbaugh Laws, if you're in our country, you cannot be a burden to taxpayers. You are not entitled, ever, to welfare, to food stamps, or other government goodies. You can come if you invest here, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage. If you don't now have that amount of money, you can't come and invest. You have to stay home. If you do come and you want to buy land, okay, but we're going to restrict your options. You will not be allowed to buy waterfront property in the United States. That will be reserved for citizens naturally born in this country This sounds like a lot of government intervention into a free market, is Limbaugh suggesting we move further towards socialism?.

In fact, as a foreigner, you must relinquish individual rights to property… Another thing. You don't have the right to protest when you come here. You're allowed no demonstrations, you cannot wave a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies, or you get sent home This would be a great idea, except for that pesky consititution thing... You're a foreigner. You shut your mouth or you get out, and if you come here illegally, you go straight to jail and we're going to hunt you down 'til we find you.

I can imagine many of you think that the Limbaugh Laws are pretty harsh. I imagine today some of you probably are going, "Yeah! Yeah!" Well, let me tell you this, folks. Every one of the laws I just mentioned are actual laws of Mexico, today. I just read you Mexican immigration law. That's how the Mexican government handles immigrants to their country.

 

 

Original Post by simwaves1:

The problem comes in when you consider the fact that illegal immigrants have no interest in assimilating into american society. Instead, they want to bring mexican society here.

The only two solutions that I see are to keep them out or require them to adhere to a strict assimilation program.

 Every single wave of immigrants that has come to the US has resisted assimilation, and within a couple of generations all of them have pretty much assimilated.  Why does anyone expect that the current wave of immigration from mexico would be any different?

Original Post by simwaves1:

Just interesting, thats all. Personally, I side with the assessment of Dr. Victor Davis Hanson. The rate at which Mexicans are immigrating into the US will eventually overwhelm our limited resources. As it is, I am a white american minority in CA because of the amount of immigration to my state.

The problem comes in when you consider the fact that illegal immigrants have no interest in assimilating into american society. Instead, they want to bring mexican society here.

The only two solutions that I see are to keep them out or require them to adhere to a strict assimilation program.

 Don't worry the flow is slowing down - because jobs are drying up. I could be in error but doesn't your stat come from combining all minorities and comparing them to the number of white males?

Besides - what would be so awful about being a minority?

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by simwaves1:

The problem comes in when you consider the fact that illegal immigrants have no interest in assimilating into american society. Instead, they want to bring mexican society here.

The only two solutions that I see are to keep them out or require them to adhere to a strict assimilation program.

 Every single wave of immigrants that has come to the US has resisted assimilation, and within a couple of generations all of them have pretty much assimilated.  Why does anyone expect that the current wave of immigration from mexico would be any different?

 Heh. And every wave has been hated by the previous one -

"They took our jobs."

Original Post by floggingsully:

 Every single wave of immigrants that has come to the US has resisted assimilation, and within a couple of generations all of them have pretty much assimilated.  Why does anyone expect that the current wave of immigration from mexico would be any different?

Normally, that is true, but it hasn't shown to be the case for the current immigration of mexicans. There are many illegal immigrants who aren't here to stay. Instead, they come here to make money and return to mexico to spend it.

Original Post by kathygator:

 Don't worry the flow is slowing down - because jobs are drying up. I could be in error but doesn't your stat come from combining all minorities and comparing them to the number of white males?

Besides - what would be so awful about being a minority?

Nope. Roughly 50% of the state of CA is mexican. Of course that was a few years ago and doesn't reflect the current situation in which many mexicans have returned to mexico.

Nothing is wrong with being a minority; however, this stat reflects the incredible amount of immigration that we have been experiencing. Like I said, eventually, our limited resources will be consumed.

What resources are you concerned about Sim?

edit to add: few hundred years ago 100% of the state was Mexican...just sayin'...

Original Post by simwaves1:

Normally, that is true, but it hasn't shown to be the case for the current immigration of mexicans. There are many illegal immigrants who aren't here to stay. Instead, they come here to make money and return to mexico to spend it.

 Where as previous generations just sent the money home instead of actually going back to spend it.  I still don't see how the current wave of immigrants is any different than past waves.

People come here from Mexico, they don't want to assimilate to 'US culture', and either they leave or they stay and have kids who end up more open to assimilation and they have kids who don't act any differant than kids who's families have been in the US for 400 years.