Fat Bias: Why ISN'T it Majority Rule?

I am not sure if anyone has noticed an increased number of fat discrimination articles making the rounds in newspapers lately.

Remember the story about the middle-aged woman who was physically attacked on the London underground for being fat...by another woman? The best (worst) part was the comments made by readers, some of which were just so painfully mean to read. I especially hate that people comment on it as if it were acceptable because fat people cost money to the public health system. The truly thoughtful ones say that if the fat people don't like like being treated this way then they should lose weight (there are just so many things wrong with this way of thinking that I'm speechless). Then of course, there is the concern about it just being unhealthy. It's the automatic response to anything having to do with fat people, even when they're being beat up, and such a great way to wrap up your hate in fake concern. I've seen these same types of comments on all these articles I've read, and even here on CC.

So...why is it that a majority of people in the US are overweight but we seem to be accepting of these kinds of attitudes and everyday insults? Self-loathing? Fear? Is it because we think that if we keep quiet, maybe we will be spared some of the ridicule, like the rules of the playground? Invariably, there is always a thin person who claims that she should be the one to be pitied because she's thin and all the fat people hate her. "Oh poor healthy girl," someone else will say, "did those awful lazy, overeating, UNHealthy fat ladies bother you? I can't imagine why they would. No one should take it out on the healthy people!" And then suddenly the focus shifts away again from the more systemic and underlying problem.

Being repulsed by another human due mainly to their appearance and the accompanying assumptions/stereotypes is not and never will be OK. Even if those stereotypes have been spoon-fed to you by a so-called acceptable source. Save your repulsion for the people who have earned it please. I know that there's something wrong when a person can use the same descriptor, "repulsive", for a repeat child molester and that lady in the size 20 jeans.

So most overweight people are overweight because of their own behavior right? There have been plenty of diseases in the world that could have been prevented by human behavior but this is the only one that I have seen as a target for laughs. Usually, other diseases are stemmed by education and directed health efforts. But, somehow bullying and mocking is going to solve the hideous obesity problem. Look how well it's working!

It's not rocket science - If you want people to be healthy, you approach them in a healthy manner. What's healthier- respect, compassion and love or derision, repulsion and loathing?

I wanted to know how many people sit and just smile blankly while their friends make fun of fat people, or rail against the obesity "epidemic" due to American "laziness." I ask because I do. I just sit there, seething. I would like to tell them they're wrong and in fact they're idiots.

Mocking and deriding other human beings is not ok. It just reeks of elitism, and it's far more telling that the overweight (inferior, unhealthy) majority just seems to take it. Why don't we take control of our own humanity and inherent worth as human beings and stop this?

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/fat- bias-worse-for-women http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8 327753.stm

Extremely well written post.

And I do think, for many overweight people, you've hit the nail on the head. If you speak up when your slimmer friends (and I use the word friends in a very broad sense - not close, personal friends) make degrading comments towards fat people, you're basically putting a target on your back.

On the radio this morning, they had Jay Leno making a fat joke about Kirstie Alley. Hasn't she suffered enough? She was made fun of less before she tried to lose weight and failed. Why ever try again? Are people going to make fun of ME if I gain back again?

All I could think was what a frigging lazy comedian Leno is to do yet another fat joke. That's why I refuse to watch the snarky ****. It's just this attitude that drives the hate directed at overweight people.

I remember how low I was before I started here, and I happened along a forum where people were fat bashing. Thin people talking about how much they hated bigger people. I was so appalled and disturbed. I don't think people realize that making negative comments that make people hate thier bodies more might be beneficial if your aim is to help keep them imprisoned in a ball of shame, but it is not helpful if you want to help empower them to do better.

Original Post by vertigal:

So...why is it that a majority of people in the US are overweight but we seem to be accepting of these kinds of attitudes and everyday insults? Self-loathing? Fear?

More societal reinforced self loathing, IMO.  The overriding message in most media is that being overweight is a character flaw.

I believe that the reason some people behave in hateful ways is fear and self-loathing.  They are afraid that they are not "good enough", so they must find some other group to hate in order to feel okay in their own skin.   They feel that it validates themselves to attack someone's body type, skin color, religion, whatever.

When someone I know makes hurtful comments (not a friend, my friends don't do this) about any individual on the basis of the group they belong to I find a good response is to ask them "Why would you say such a thing?".  (Try to cultivate an innocent expression while asking this question.)  They usually stammer to a halt in trying to justify themselves, but it does let them know that I am not willing to listen to their hate.  I doubt it cures anyone, but it at least keeps me from seething silently and tacitly endorsing their prejudice.

Since we are supposed to love the sinner, hate the sin, I try to find pity in my heart for these people.  But, as much as possible, I find it best for my own peace of mind to simply avoid these haters.

I have found myself involved in conversations just like the ones described here.  People making jokes or snide comments about other people due to their physical appearance.

My response, "you know, my mother is ______" insert the appropriate entry here, fat, old, republican, hispanic, african american, asian, catholic, jewish, etc. 

The trick is you have to say it with a deadpan face.  I wish I had a camera to catch the reaction of some of the people I've done that to.

In most cases, they learn the lesson.  You never know who you are speaking to, so if you are going to spew out a bunch of idiotic rhetoric, just shut up.

Original Post by tciherr:

I have found myself involved in conversations just like the ones described here.  People making jokes or snide comments about other people due to their physical appearance.

My response, "you know, my mother is ______" insert the appropriate entry here, fat, old, republican, hispanic, african american, asian, catholic, jewish, etc. 

The trick is you have to say it with a deadpan face.  I wish I had a camera to catch the reaction of some of the people I've done that to.

In most cases, they learn the lesson.  You never know who you are speaking to, so if you are going to spew out a bunch of idiotic rhetoric, just shut up.

I like this.  I think I will do that.

I actually tend to have this policy: if you're comfortable saying the joke in front of whoever you're deriding, then you can say it.  If you want to make a Holocaust joke, you can- so long as you wouldn't mind saying it in front of a Holocaust survivor.

I can remember overweight kids being made fun of in school. How awful for a child, who isn't even at an age where he is responsible or accountable for his own diet. A real shame that some adults never grow out of it.

Different but related-- I see the same stigma against people with addiction problems, such as alcoholism. Being treated like a second-class citizen is never helpful in causing a person to make healthy changes.

For what it's worth, I've noticed an equal amount of skinny/fat bashing here on the CC site.

Original Post by sayanything7:

For what it's worth, I've noticed an equal amount of skinny/fat bashing here on the CC site.

Really?  Because the only "skinny bashing" I've seen on this site has been concern that a given poster's eating habits sound like they could be ED-related.

And if you think honestly think that fat people and skinny people get treated with the same amount of disdain out in the real world, you have never been fat.  There is a massive difference between how your average person treats someone who is thin compared to someone who is significantly overweight. 

Thank you for this post. I wish more people in this world shared these views.

Think of how the people on this forum act about super-skinny models.

That's the mindset that's causing this, and a lot of people who think they're against it are actively doing it. There are all kinds of things we discriminate against in our daily lives. If a very unkempt person who didn't seem to have shaved or bathed or changed his clothes in months came up to you, would you accept him for his personality and not his outward state? What if they were wearing extremely tacky clothes?

To a certain extent, it's something you can't fix. Because when it comes down to it, humans are judged by their appearance. I don't think there's a real answer to the "problem"; just that if you want admiration you have to work for it, I guess. And if you don't, that probably makes your life a lot easier.

There is an innate human tendency to reject the 'other'.   We are herd species... we feel comfortable with people who look & behave like us. Being different  - whether it's by carrying excessive weight, having another skin colour, choice of dress, sexual orientation, physical disability - attracts attention.  In a civilised society it stops there and differences are tolerated.  In an uncivilised society, the extra attention can quickly turn into bullying.   Having watched a BBC Panorama documentary recently where a woman was pelted with stones and had abuse & threats hurled at her simply for wearing Muslim dress... I'd say that a few jokes or a wry remark about buttock size has to be kept in perspective.

Verbal abuse & prejudice doesn't have to come from outside.  Lost count of the number of CC members (overweight or otherwise) that refer to themselves as 'fat and disgusting', 'fat and horrible', 'fat and ugly'.... etc.  If that's how they refer to themselves, what does that say about their opinion of others?

You need to read this

Time Magazine - Fat & Healthy

Fat doesn't always equal unhealthy.  On the other hand, being underweight is even more deadly, yet underweight people are not reviled.

I don't agree with that.  Underweight people are increasingly reviled.   Magazines now do the 'look how shockingly thin XYZ celebrity has got' photos quite frequently.... although the models in the adverts are allowed to pass without comment.     I've seen for myself just this week a very emaciated, hollow-cheeked woman being stared at and given a wide berth in a supermarket.  

I have a theory on people who call themselves fat: By "owning" the word for themselves, they take the power away from the other group(s). You see this also in the dreaded "n" word. Blacks "own" it now and you are a complete **** if you dare utter it when you aren't Black.

I don't think labeling yourself fat perpetuates hate. I think it steals the hater's thunder.

Referring to yourself as fat (assuming you are actually fat) is fine because it's just an adjective like any other.   But it so often gets teamed up with something more insulting that it goes beyond self-effacement or 'ownership'.   'Fat and disgusting', 'fat and ugly', 'fat and horrible'.... etc.  And when a very thin person says 'I feel fat'... you know what they really mean is 'I feel bad about myself'.

Original Post by tomatotomata:

I don't think labeling yourself fat perpetuates hate. I think it steals the hater's thunder.

 I call myself fat all the time and people get super upset with me over this.  I call myself fat because, let's face it, I'm fat.  I have nothing to hide, I'm just stating a fact.  But I think people associate labeling yourself as fat with, as gi-jane said, really meaning "I feel bad about myself" even if you're not very thin.  I don't get it.

I completely agree with GI-Jane on this.  I (accurately) describe myself as fat while I am working on getting slimmer.  But I refuse to call myself anything like "horrible", "disgusting", or "ugly" along with it, as I often see posters do on this site.

My question is always --would you describe someone you care about (mother, father, friend, sister) as "fat and disgusting"?  If not, why would you describe yourself in that same way?  We all deserve to treat ourselves as least as well as we treat others.  That is the flip side of the golden rule.