Feelings about the death penalty?

So the "Sniper" execution is slated for Tuesday evening. I have been very affected by this case not only because I am from the DC area, but also I am related to one of John Allen Muhammad's defense attorneys. I have great disdain for capital punishment, and I wish with everything I have that this execution would stop.

I would like to hear some thoughts on this issue. Either the death penalty in general, or this case in particular. I have never understood the reasoning behind killing someone, and I would be interested to hear someone articulate their views in a rational way.

He took the life of others. It wasn't his duty or his right. What reason should he have to live? What would be a good reason for him to stay alive to the families of those affected?

I think that a better question would be, "What good will it do for him to die?"

The United States justice system is not meant to sentence criminals based on the emotions of the victims. Rather, it is about justice. This man will no longer hurt anyone if he stays in jail. The families of the victims have suffered, of course. But why, then, should that mean that John Allen Muhammad's children and siblings must suffer?

His children and siblings with suffer regardless of if he gets the death penalty or rots in jail. 

I'm not 100% either way for or against it. I need to do more research but I think it's thrown around a bit too much. I don't necessarily believe this guy should be put to death. 

I would encourage anyone who is on the fence about this issue to research it in-depth. Many people have false notions about the death penalty, whether it's about cost or humanity. The fact is if you look up which countries still have the death penalty, we are not in very good company.

I personally believe the the death penalty is a perfect example of "an eye for an eye" punishment, which is a system the US court system itself debunks. Why should this theology still be present in any part of our justice system?

alibsam-- True, his children will suffer either way, but you cannot deny that there is a clear difference in whether your father is dead or your father is put away.

On a moral level, my feeling is that sentencing someone to death is more about revenge than about justice, because when something precious has been taken, the life of another person, the taking of another life does not provide redemption or true solace.  It might make the survivors feel a little better temporarily, particularly if they are religious and they believe in some kind of punishment in an afterlife, but they will still suffer the absence of their loved one.  This doesn't mean I don't feel a death penalty has it's place, but I'd just assume be honest about its real intent.

Legally, my biggest problem is with how it is more determined by back room bargaining, politics, and the amount of money the defendant has available for an attorney.  I've said it before:  if OJ Simpson were a blue collar nobody, he would have been executed a long time ago.

Just a side note - it's also been shown, on a purely financial level, that because of appeals and the amount of security involved on death row, keeping a person in prison for life actually costs the taxpayers less than capital punishment. 

Santonacci, you're on point. That's true about cost, and it is the tax payers who pay to put someone to death. But I do not think the death penalty has a place anywhere, honestly. .

Elizabeth Young, a juror from the sniper trials in Virginia Beach, has spoken out about her regrets as a juror. It is clear that she wishes she had chosen life, and has willingly participated in the appeals for Muhammad's life to Governor Kaine.

Call it what it is - revenge. I wish we would be more honest about that. It's not about justice. It's also extremely costly. And those who advocate one appeal then done should keep in mind the number of people who have been found innocent after being on death row (look up Innocence Project). The appeals process is necessary so the cost issue isn't going away. Finally, the death penalty is applied disproportionately to minorities and poor people - those who can't afford the best lawyers - making it an even more immoral choice.

Here is a scenario I would like you all to think about.

A man murders a person or multiple people. He is sentenced to prison. After his sentence is up, he comes and kills your child/spouse/parent/relative.

I do not agree 100% with the death penalty. I think that people who receive the death penalty should have multiple murders and counts of domestic violence/etc. rather than just one case. That way, it would be very unlikely for a person to be wrongly framed if you require multiple charges.

Again, I am not 100% for the death penalty. But then again, I have never had my child raped and then brutally murdered. Then my views may change.

Original Post by mmachica:

He took the life of others. It wasn't his duty or his right. What reason should he have to live? What would be a good reason for him to stay alive to the families of those affected?

It is also not our duty or right to decide when someone dies, regardless of the crime they committed.  Who are we to decide the value of a person to society, murderer or not?  What good does it do to kill him?  What benefits does that bring to society?

I believe that the death of anyone, including a murderer or a rapist is a tragedy.  While I do not condone their actions (obviously), I also do not think it should be the right of other people to decide if that person lives or dies.  That is no one's right.  Jail for life (without possibility of parole) is an appropriate punishment, in my opinion.

It is also not my duty, as a tax payer, to pay for a murderer to live his life in prison.

Again, if it was a one-time murderer, I would rather pay for them than have a wrongly framed person die. But a murderer who has caused multiple deaths? I don't know if I want to pay for them to live. Really.

You may look at a murderer in court whose sentence is being decided. He may look like a person there. But I'm sure if you saw a video tape of that person committing the murder(s), you may think differently. Or if you found the end result of that murderer's actions, your child's mutilated body, you may think differently.

I am not in this position, nor have I ever. I am just trying to get you to see how the family members of murder victims may feel.

If someone is convicted without a doubt--I firmly believe in the death penalty.  Why keep scum around?  What good will they do sitting in jail for the rest of their lives?  It is our duty--that is why we have court systems and rules to follow.  Yes I know not every case is cut and dry but for the ones that are--death penalty.  Common sense people.  I'm sure you all could relate if it was your child or mother or father your husband/wife killed and raped and God knows what else--but then again some people can forgive and I say good for you if you can but I know that I'd personally watch him/her die if it was a family member with no feelings at all.

Original Post by mmachica:

He took the life of others. It wasn't his duty or his right. What reason should he have to live?

And what gives anyone else the right to do the same?

I'm pretty strongly opposed to the death penalty.  Among the reasons:

 - Killing others should be avoided whenever possible

 - State-sanctioned homicide opens the door to a general societal belief that homicide can be legitimate.  Historically speaking, humanity has done a pretty terrible job of deciding on what bases people can be legitimately killed, so it is a discussion I would just as soon avoid.

 - Execution is irrevocable and our criminal justice system is far from perfect, even in so-called 'black and white' cases.  The risk of an unjust execution is simply too high (see the case of Cameron Todd Willingham, for example) and over 130 death row inmates have been exonerated and released since 1973.  If there is a capital punishment system that does not put the lives of innocent people at risk, humanity has yet to implement it.

 - Although I find it repellent to enter into a cost-benefit analysis on anyone's life, it is worth noting that there is evidence that execution, on average, costs more than life imprisonment.  So, although some may not like the idea of (indirectly) paying for prison accommodations for murders and such, they would be paying more for the process by which that same person is executed.

 - Vengeance is not the principle upon which our criminal justice system is or should be based. Wanting to watch someone die for what they did is a base reaction, not a reasoned application of justice.

 - There is little to support the suggestion that capital punishments deter people from committing capital offenses.

 - Not only does capital punishment put innocent people at risk, it is unevenly applied by race and other factors.

 - Finally, on a personal note, two of my ancestors were wrongly executed, using questionable evidence, for a crime that we would all agree does not warrant execution in the first place.  I have no doubt that their executioners felt very strongly about the justness of their actions, but no amount of self-righteousness justifies a wrongful death. 

Whenever I see really horrible cases (like multiple murder serial killers, ie. Gary Ridgeway or the recent case up here of Robert Pickton), I think that we'd all be better off if these people were dead.

But at the same time, every society that has ever enforced the death penalty has executed innocent people. Therefore I can't, in good conscious, support it. 

Original Post by lyssalou76:

If someone is convicted without a doubt--I firmly believe in the death penalty. Why keep scum around? What good will they do sitting in jail for the rest of their lives? It is our duty--that is why we have court systems and rules to follow. Yes I know not every case is cut and dry but for the ones that are--death penalty. Common sense people. I'm sure you all could relate if it was your child or mother or father your husband/wife killed and raped and God knows what else--but then again some people can forgive and I say good for you if you can but I know that I'd personally watch him/her die if it was a family member with no feelings at all.

It is our duty to perpetuate bloodshed? Why is this "common sense" to you? When is a case ever "cut and dry"? Why is this our duty? This man will not harm anyone else in jail, and there is no chance of being released.

I am absolutely positive that if my father were murdered, I would not want the killer to face the death penalty. As angry and heartbroken as I would be, I would know that killing this person would not heal my pain.

And even if it could help me heal, the justice system in America is not meant to serve my personal vendetta. It is meant to keep us safe from further harm.

Original Post by muttlover:

It is also not my duty, as a tax payer, to pay for a murderer to live his life in prison.

It is more expensive to give someone a death sentence than a life sentence. If you are not willing to kill this person yourself, by your own hand, then you should not be willing to pay for his death.

My bad, I didn't know that.

People escape from prison. It doesn't happen that often, but it happens. Just type into google "Murderers escape from prison" and you will see enough examples.

Also, murderers in prison--this may be shocking--murder people in prison, too! So if your brother goes to prison for drug possession, he could be murdered. Does that sound fair, either?

I don't want people to be killed, really. I just think that it is considered a "sacrifice for safety." In killing one person, you could save many innocent lives.

Yeah, but try another google search: 'Wrongful execution' or 'wrongful conviction, death penalty'. 

Since 1973, 139 people in 26 states have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence, and the majority (71) of those released have been African American. (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-lis t-those-freed-death-row)

While I agree if there were some way of being 100% sure it'd be different, but there never will be. The justice system is flawed and will always be at least a little flawed. There is always room for error. 

Even putting aside the moral dilemma of whether or not we have the right to take a murderers life, I think we can all agree killing innocent people is wrong. And history shows us that innocent people, have, are, and will be executed if we as a society continue to use the death penalty. 

(I also find it kind of ironic that the Americans who are so scared of the government taking over their lives (through -eek- socialism) are oftentimes the same people who want to give said government to have the power to take lives.)

ANYWAYS, yeah. That is my general opinion. xD

Original Post by muttlover:

My bad, I didn't know that.

People escape from prison. It doesn't happen that often, but it happens. Just type into google "Murderers escape from prison" and you will see enough examples.

Also, murderers in prison--this may be shocking--murder people in prison, too! So if your brother goes to prison for drug possession, he could be murdered. Does that sound fair, either

True, people do escape. I think it's safe to say that these escapes are not from supermax facilities like the one John Allen Muhammad is in. The most recent escape was from **** State prison, which has a limited staff and a history of terrible inmate abuse.

Also, most prisons are separated, so that murderers are not among those in prison for smaller crimes.

Original Post by lyssalou76:

If someone is convicted without a doubt--I firmly believe in the death penalty.  Why keep scum around?  What good will they do sitting in jail for the rest of their lives?  It is our duty--that is why we have court systems and rules to follow.  Yes I know not every case is cut and dry but for the ones that are--death penalty.  Common sense people.  I'm sure you all could relate if it was your child or mother or father your husband/wife killed and raped and God knows what else--but then again some people can forgive and I say good for you if you can but I know that I'd personally watch him/her die if it was a family member with no feelings at all.

I totally agree with you.  I am absolutely, 100% in favor of the death penalty.  Period.

As an aside, I find it strange that so many people (NOT necessarily those in this forum) oppose the death penalty for murderers, but then think it's okay to murder innocent unborn babies.  Just my opinion.