Food and Fitness.

I've been eating clean with a calorie defict for a while now, and my body composistion has changed drastically over the last few months as i've gained abit of muscle and lost quite abit of fat.

Thus far the scales don't really show my progress but thats ok because the tape measure shows some good progress losing several inch's all over.

Now i've recently started with a personal trainer to help push me that bit further and sessions are going well ... however she has a problem with my calorie intake because she thinks it's waaaay to low.

Infact she'd rather i didn't count calories at all, she says that having never been a "fat" person that chances are i "know how to listen to my body". She belives that mostly there is no difference bettween fat people and thin people except thier ability to listen to thier body to tell them when to eat and how much.

She seems to think because i've never been fat and because i have improved the quality of my diet that alone should be enough to maintain my fat loss and she also thinks im harming myself and my ability to train by restricting my calories because she thinks even if i did need to count calories im cutting them too harshly.

The problem is that before i counted caloires i was a cronic undereater, not purposeful but it wasn't till i joined the site that i realised how much normal people ate ... the only reason i didn't waste away was because when i did eat it was calorie dence junk.

It took me a while to build my calories upto a normal level ... i stuggled to eat 1,200 then 1,400. A few weeks ago before i started with the trainer i'd gotten myself to a point where i cycled bettween 1,400 - 1,800 dependent on the days workouts, mostly i tried to stick to a 500-600cal deficit which was working great.

However since i've started with the trainer i'm finding im almost always hungry, within an hour of eating i'm starving again, my trainer thinks it's my body telling me i need more food, but im not convinced.

I'm not really losing on 1,400 - 1,800 cals per day and im not sure upping my calories is such a good plan. Im already eating more than CC suggests for my activity level, so i don't think the problem is "starvation mode".

What do you think?? im 5ft3 118lbs body fat about 22%.  I work out 5 days a week for 45mins burning bettween 300 - 500cals per day according to CC, and CC recommends i eat 1,500cals per day ... my trainer thinks 2,000 is better which puts me at roughly maintenance.

should i up my calories??

 

 

 

 

My trainer has suggested drinking a "recovery beverage" after work outs.  basically a protein/carb shake, or something similar.  This seems to help the "after work out hunger."  See what your trainer thinks about that. 

It sounds like you aren't really wanting to lose weight, but continue with building muscle and losing fat.  Therefore, I would think you would want to be eating at your maintenance calories as your trainer is suggesting. 

I would agree that if you are really hungry after your workouts you should eat something.  Maybe the protein shake as suggested above or something that will fuel the recovery.  Just make sure it's really hunger and not thirst.

It's not really post workout hunger as much as all the time hunger.

Well, considering the example of Petite_Powerhouse who needs 3500cal/day just to maintain - and she's 10 pounds lighter than you - I'd say that your consistent strength training has probably boosted your metabolism to the point where it's a good idea to increase your calorie intake regardless.

 There's also the experiment Dr. Berardi did a while back when validating his G-flux concept - he took a bunch of athletes, put them on a calorie-equilibrium diet+exercise regime, and measured their hormone/enzyme activity at various intakes. He found that the activity and efficiency of their lipase enzymes - the ones that move fat out of your fat cells and into your bloodstream so they can be used for fuel - it was 30% higher at 2300 calories than at 1800 calories. So even if they theoretically were in the same net zero energy balance at 1800 and 2300 calories a day, they actually grew a bit leaner at 2300 calories due to higher enrgy turnover and increased protein turnover at the higher energy balance.

 Now, counting calories still makes sense for you to make sure you actually eat enough - but your evil-minded trainer is making you do a lot of really high-intensity workouts, right? Sounds like she's looking to increase your energy turnover - get it up high enough and you'll grow leaner even in a calorie balance ;)

I feel as though I myself should be following the advice given to you Leiela -from Melkor, not your personal trainer that is.  I'm really hitting the gym hard these days and I am really trying to lower my body fat, but I feel like the more I constrict my calories the worse it gets.  I recently have upped my daily intake to between 1800-2100, but STILL, I feel like I should up it even more.  What do your workout's look like leiela?  I'm trying to get an idea of how to learn from you?  I work out 5-6 days a week most days 2x's a day.  Conditioning and circuits for about 20-30 min in the a.m., varying day by day with HIIT, Jogging, running, walking with resistance, and heavy weighlifting during lunch hour (40 min of workout time) and on the weekends I go for long runs usually between 6 and 9 miles.  I feel like back in the day when I didn't count calories I was happier with the way my composition was, but I felt like I ate really bad!  These days I balance with proper nutrition and I just don't feel like I have the results or am coming close to the results I desire.  I'm a little frustrated if you can't already tell!

Bah trust someone to be logical about it....My trainer is pretty evil and she is pushing me insanely hard, bettween weights, skipping and Hill sprints there is not really an "easy day at the gym".

I work out 5 days a week atm 45mins per session ... all weight training sessions are lifting heavy circuit training, with only 10-30 second break bettween sets.

• Monday - Back/Legs + Hill Sprints
• Tuesday - Arms / Shoulders
• Wednesday - Core/Abs + HIIT ... and it really is High intensity....
• Thursday - Traps and Glutes
• Friday - Full Body + Hill Sprints.

She's also asked me to add more "none exercise" Activity, and 15mins skipping daily as of this week.

I dunno it just feels wrong ... im losing fat thats blatently obvious but i don't seem to be losing it super fast and the scales arn't budging to i guess i'm scared that if im "technically" maintaining right now (ie my weight is consistant)...

 if i up my calories i'll gain weight and i'm feel im working very hard and deserve results which i am getting but i guess part of me has the "if it aint broke don't fix it" mentality... and i don't want to risk upseting what is already working for me all be it slowely....

I understand the whole concept of In Vs Out and although i can't deny im working much harder now than i was 6 weeks ago so logically i can put my calories up slightly i find it hard to belive im working "that" hard that i can still lose on 2,000cals a day.  

 

 

Why pay/use a trainer if you don't take/trust their advice?

From the sound of it, your trainer plans to push you up to 2000 calories a day, and then have you burn off 2500 - I'd go along with that if I were you. Don't forget - more food means more fuel for your workouts, means more intensity when you train, and more intensity means better results.

Original Post by whooshi:

Why pay/use a trainer if you don't take/trust their advice?

 yeah i know i should but eating so much is SCARY!!!

deff eat more than 1500-thats for losing weight and is still not enough.  eat more!

I thought to lose body fat you still had to create a deficit though, i figure im burning about 1,800 on my workout days less on my other days... so 1,500 seemed a good deficit to create.

 

Hey I am struggling with the same concept.  I notice my weight loss has stalled out a little over the last couple of weeks.  This only happened because I dropped  my calls to around 1600.  I have to bring it back up to about 2000 to lose weight again.  Don't ask for advice and not take just because they are not telling you what you want to hear.  You need to eat more to fuel your body for the workouts or you will end up cannibalizing your muscles you worked so hard for.  Stop being silly.  We both need to stop being silly and eat enough.  I was doing it too.

Ok then guys in your expert opinions how much do i need to be eating?? and how should i start thinking about getting my calorie intake there ?? slowely or just leap up??

 Well, what kind of calorie intake does your trainer think you need? You might want to ramp up there by adding 150-200cal/day to your menu so you don't get the shock of going from 1500 to 2000* overnight. That 'shock' is mostly mental, btw - your body is a finely tuned machine that can react a lot faster than you think to calorie changes :)

 But yea, go for the higher rate of energy turnover - your trainer will see to it that you're burning off all those extra calories and more :)

 And don't forget - after a few months of consistent strength training your RMR is elevated by about 6.8-7.8%, so you need 6-8% more calories just to maintain. Which explains why you need to ramp up your calories to keep losing - you're a calorie-burning machine :)

 *Number is ficticious example

Thats the thing she refuses to give me a number because she doens't want me counting the calories in it.

All she says is MORE!! she tells me to eat reasonably every 2-3 hours and that at the moment she doens't think im not eating anywhere enough.

"i need to eat a normal amount... eat when im hungry let me body tell me when to stop"  But as someone who used to cronically under eat i have no concept of what a "normal" amount is... to me 1,200 ish is normal.

I was using this to get my numbers so i thought i was doing everything right

http://www.phord.com/cc/?m=US&a=1--1-1-1- 1-&q=f-30-160.02-53.64-1.55-68.58-83.82-2 2

I even upped the number it gave me so i was eating bettween 1,400-1,800 to take into account the intense sessions ... and still im told to eat more i just don't "get it".... each week i hand in my diet sheet to her and i get told off for under eating ... but according to the calc im eating more than i should to lose wieght and even if i do up my activity to the "next level" even though im not working out 6-7days per week

http://www.phord.com/cc/?m=US&a=1--1-1-1- 1-&q=f-30-160.02-53.64-1.725-68.58-83.82- 22

It still suggests less food than im already intaking ... 

i just have no clue what i should be doing any more???!! I know im not really losing much weight atm but is it still newbie muscle gains?? Have i stalled because im not eating enough?? or am i eatting to much?? ... i really have no clue anymore.

But everyone seems to be telling me to eat more including my trainer so im willing to give it a shot.. but i just know i can't "not count" because i know i won't hit the right macro's and i won't eat enough.

 Given the variety of BMR-boosting activities you're doing, and considering that you don't really need to lose weight so much as increase energy turnover to cause your body to burn fat while maintaining muscle, you could aim for maybe 150-200 calories below maintenance - Phord's estimate - most days, and let the boost in your RMR from your weight training and intervals account for another couple hundred calories 'off the books' as it were. And since your trainer wants you to add in even more daily exercise, you'll burn off a couple hundred calories jumping rope and walking. Which means you should really be using the higher bracket to see how much you burn - so if you just eat at maintenance for the lower bracket and push harder during your workouts, you'll grow leaner still.

wow that is one truck load of calories.... do people REALLY eat that much??? because it seems like a ton for little olde me haha...

Don't get me wrong i can eat that many if we include burger and fries on the "clean" list ... but thats a hell of alot of chicken breast and spinach !!!