Is it just me...

...or do vegetarians seem to pride themselves on the aspect of being members of the highly-exclusive "vegetarian club" almost to an annoying point?? I myself am sort of a vegan, but I eat fish. I kind of call it "pesce-vegan". I have some friends that think i'm crazy, like "You can't POSSIBLY be a vegan if you eat fish!!" but then i don't quite understand why they are so concerned with my dietary choices. It seems like you have to "prove" yourself to the vegan community, and those that call themselves vegan yet who eat the occasional egg are SHUNNED and insulted. Maybe its just me, but Vegans especially are always looking for ways to insult those who eat animal products. I personally am a vegan because i am 1)lactose intolerant, 2)grossed out by meat and eggs, 3)concerned for my health. I also feel better about myself knowing that I can eat a whole meal without harming animals in any way. But however I do sometimes eat fish. And for this reason, I have had so many friends actually get ANGRY with me for referring to myself as a vegan!!! I know that technically I am not a vegan because I eat fish, but I almost feel like it shouldn't matter what my diet choices are. It's my life, my diet, and my decision as to what goes into my body. Why are all my friends so concerned with labelling me?/?? It just HAPPENS to be convienent that the term "vegan" applies the closest to what my diet is. If people asked,"So, what do you eat?" and i replied, "OH, i eat everything except red meat, chicken, beef, pork, eggs, butter, milk, dairy products, and honey." people would be probably quite annoyed with me. Therefore, I use a commonly known term, "vegan," to describe my diet. And yes, I do eat fish so you can go ahead and slam me for being a liar about what I eat, butSERIOUSLY. it's MY diet!!!! why the hell does anyone even CARE about what i eat!?!?!?!? AHHHHHGHGHGHGH!!!!!

ok, sorry for that REALLY LONG VENT.....ahh but i needed that. ok. the end i promise.

Sometimes we all need to vent! 

It can be frustrating that the "righteous vegans" will be angry over what you call yourself, but most people would understand you easiest by calling yourself a vegan. After all, it's something easy that most people have heard of by now.

As for the "righteous vegans", well, they are probably protective of the label simply because being a strict vegan is hard, and they don't want to add confusion into the matter if normal eaters find out that you eat fish. 

It's the definition of the term. While vegetarians don't eat meat for the reasons you listed, vegans go further to shun ALL animal products (yes, fish!!!) because we believe using and murdering animals IS WRONG. You don't believe that. You are not a vegan.

You eat fish, you aren't even a Vegetarian!! You're just a plain omnivore. It's people like you who ruin our name, not us.

You are not vegan and every vegan on this planet will hate you for calling yourself one. Please stop calling yourself vegan.

/endrant

Why do you need a label for your diet at all?

Just curious...

Maybe when asked about your diet you could say it's "similar to vegan although I eat fish." 

If asked what vegan means, you can say it means eating no animal products.  They should get the picture.

Let me start this off by saying that this post is not meant to be seen as judgemental in any way and is just my humble opinion. I've seen these posts on this forum a lot and I hope I can help clarify my feelings, and those of some other people on the site as well I'm sure. It seems that it's not so much that your friends are labeling you, but to me, more like you are adamant on labeling yourself a vegan. It would be one thing to say you eat a predominantly vegan diet. Of course you can call yourself anything you want, you are entitled, it's your own business, but the true meaning of vegan is that one does not consume or use any foods or products that come from an animal.

Someone who eats fish is definitely not a vegan by that definition, and I agree with the statement above that a person who eats fish is also not a vegetarian as well, as far as the definition of the word. Because a person eats vegetables along with their meat, fish or dairy (etc), that does not make them vegan. A person could definitely say they eat a vegetarian diet mostof the time and have that be true, however when used out of that context by saying they are a vegetarian, I think that's where the statement makes the most waves.

I don't understand why someone would feel the need to label themselves a vegetarian, even if they "only eat white meat" or eat mostly vegetables on occasion. Personally I think that it just detracts away from the meaning behind the word, that makes almost anyone a vegan or vegetarian if we count people who eat meat as well. Just about everyone in my life eats meat and dairy, I love them with all my heart and would never think any less of them, but I would be incorrect if I labeled myself an omnivore or carnivore, so why would I label myself as such?

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind my asking Emmilie, why is it that you label yourself a vegan?

I guess the reason that some people get all up in arms about it is that it's almost like a religion to some, including myself. They don't just eat a vegan diet, but live a vegan lifestyle, do not eat meat or dairy...do not wear leather or wool or use products that have been tested on animals. It would be like saying, I'm a Christian, but I worship Satan on occasion or I'm drug-free, but smoke crack once in a while. I know I'm going out there a little with the comparisons, but I'm just trying to really illustrate how frustrating it would be for a devout Christian or someone who dedicates themselves to a life of sobriety to hear another claiming to be the same, but going against everything they believe.

I'm not judging you by any means, or telling you what you should label yourself, and I'm definitely not saying what is right and wrong or telling you what to do. Hopefully this clarifies a little bit why some people are sensitive about the issue.

Have a great rest of the weekend and hope this explanation helps in some way.

However, just to add--

Just because some people view veganism as a spiritual, philosophic, almost religious aspect of their life does not mean that everyone has to. These 'orthodox' vegans do not have the right to define veganism any more than non-orthodox vegans do. Now, before you go and haul out the dictionary definitions, remember that a social movement is always changing and, much like slang, gets it's meaning from the current social context rather than a strict set of rules written by one person or one group of people that have their own view of the movement.

Personally I would only call her a vegan for convenience sake (trying to explain her diet to a stranger, for example). But I might say she eats like a vegan, or she is a lenient vegan-- just like I might say I am a Jew even though I don't eat kosher, or that my brother does not believe in Thanksgiving but he still celebrates it with us, or that my friend is Catholic but doesn't ever go to church. Sure, the more 'orthodox' people of all these groups might resent the choices of people who do not do as much as orthodoxy requires yet still label themselves Jews/Catholics, but in this modern world that's just tough luck isn't it?

http://caloriecount.about.com/forums/post/611 07.html#3

^^ Those are my thoughts on the situation that I have posted previously.

I will repeat that I have yet to ever find it even remotely onerous to explain that I am pescetarian and what that means. Pretty much no one understands it, so it usually does require an explanation if I use that word. Or, I just say the only meat I eat is seafood. Regardless, it's not hard for me to do so, and I do it out of respect. For me it would be disrespectful to claim I am vegan or vegetarian, even though the vast majority of my meals are vegan. It's just not true to make that statement, and it muddies water that doesn't need to be muddied further, as I stated in my other post.

The way I see it, it's a lot easier for me to explain my unusual diet to people and keep the labels they are more familiar with pure, than to make unclear the familiar labels and force more veg*ans in the future to have to explain themselves because I couldn't be bothered to explain myself.  :)

Calling yourself a vegan when you aren't is what causes confusion of the definition of the word. As an example of what I mean, my mother's friend thought that all vegetarians and vegans eat chicken, because her cousin is a "vegetarian" that eats chicken. Because of this she made me a special rice casserole with cream of chicken soup and I had to feel like a jerk while explaining to her that I couldn't eat it.

YOU ARE NOT VEGAN. If you really feel the need to have a label to call yourself use lactose intolerant pescatarian, but you are in no way vegan. There is no reason why you should be upset about me saying this to you. It's like saying "You are not a tree", you aren't!

Wow, thanks for all your replies!!




And yet, this is just what i'm talking about when people feel the need to reply to these kind of posts saying YOU ARE NOT VEGAN. No duh! I eat fish! which is meat! therefore, i am not vegan! Yet it highly simplifies things to call myself a "vegan"! But also, fish is not the only food i eat. I must say, I only eat seafood about once every few weeks! I never feel like seafood is an "indulgence", or my only "meat" allowance. I only eat it because my parents would never allow me to be only a strict vegan. they are way too concerned and freaked out by my diet already!




Thanks for all your thoughts on the matter, though!

Instead of calling yourself a vegan you should just tell people you are a  Flexitarian or a Semi-vegetarian. In my opinion I would think that would be more accurate.

Flexitarian/Semi-vegetarianYou don’t have to be vegetarian to love vegetarian food! “Flexitarian” is a term recently coined to describe those who eat a mostly vegetarian diet, but occasionally eat meat. ----such as fish and other seafood

Original Post by akakibbles:

**A) You're just a plain omnivore. It's people like you who ruin our name, not us.

**B) and every vegan on this planet will hate you for calling yourself one. Please stop calling yourself vegan.

/endrant

In comment **A you just proved the OPs point about veganism being PERCEIVED as elitist and snobby.  "Just a plain omnivore" ... so we're "low and common" and you're "special and wonderful"?  That's a load of crap.

In comment **B), you are just out and out WRONG.  I have vegan friends and when we have gatherings, and those of us who are not vegan try to make a point to have foods available for our vegetarian and vegan friends ... you know what they say to me?   "Don't worry about it, I'll bring my own, this is MY choice and you shouldn't have to make special accommodations for me."  NONE of my vegan friends are "haters." 

Maybe you're just a bad example.

I'm this, your that, label, label, label, blah, blah, blah.

 Eat Beef. The west wasn't won on salad!

Original Post by jdelong15:

I'm this, your that, label, label, label, blah, blah, blah.

 Eat Beef. The west wasn't won on salad!

Give me a break.

Hehe, how did a guy with fly fishing and hunting as his interests find his way into the Vegetarian forum?     Thank you John, you gave me my chuckle for the day.  (Not to say I am laughing at you, I am just finding humor in your post. :) )  I think we tend to take ourselves very seriously in this forum, and it's good to step back, when we can. 

When we can...

I have never met anyone who cared about what I do or don't eat.

An example of why it can be confusing to others...Since I've come to work for my company and the head chef found out I was vegan, they actually put a Vegetarian Station in the cafeteria. (Which is one reason why I love my company so much, they are SO accomodating and caring.) Anyway, they always have about 5 dishes and sides (for example today was red pepper hummus and grilled pita bread, cajun tofu, quinoa salad, etc.)...

...Lately I've been noticing that as one of their dishes, they've sometimes included foods such as Calamari, Mussel salad, and today Poached Salmon. None of these things are vegetarian and in my opinion would be better placed in the salad bar or somewhere else. Apparently the chefs and kitchen coordinators believe seafood is vegetarian as well, and most likely this is from coming across people or being informed that vegetarians eat fish/seafood. This also would lead others who go to the cafe and see the seafood in the vegetarian station, to believe that seafood is vegetarian as well.

I'm not making any sort of complaint or argument, just giving an example of how there is a misconception about what vegetarianism is and what it includes.

Have a great day guys :o) Hope all is well!

haha hmarcos, I can totally relate to that actually.
I went over to a friends house, and her mom asked if it was ok if she made pancakes with butter, milk and eggs, right after I explicitly told her that vegans do not eat butter, milk, or eggs. I think she was just nagging me about becoming a "vegan". So I politely replied, "Oh yes I can eat pancakes as long as they do not contain butter, or milk, or eggs." and then she backed off my case. :)