Foods
Moderators: chrissy1988, sun123


It seems pretty clear to me while surfing through the forums that there is this large fear of meat, milk, eggs or anything comming from an animal. While Veganism/vegetarianism is fine and dandy for some- it seems that people seem to denounce even a small amount of meat, egg or milk products as being some sort of evil taboo- NEVER to be ingested. Suddenly what appears to be a mild-mannered chicken breast is going to mug you at knifepoint. That glass of milk? It TOTALLY is plotting on going postal and shooting down everyone in a bank. A tablespoon of honey very well may be the one who killed your parents that dark night so long ago and lead you to lead a double-life as a vigilante. And let's not get started on the communist eggs...

But why?

Yes, meat is treated with chemicals and is overly processed. There may be hormoes in milk. That honey could be riddled with botulism. And eggs are commie bastards.

But many people fail to realize that soy is JUST as- if not more so- processed as prepackaged (not fresh butchered) meat, Agave nectar has everything in common with honey (calories, sugar, etc), and egg replacers are, more or less, all false ingredients and vegetable byproducts. Now I understand not eating meat and animal products because of ethical beliefs you have about animal rights, as well as certain allergies to things- but other than that, people avoid these things like some horrible plague.

Again, it's not like I have anything AGAINST vegetarianism, it just seems like its suddenly 'trendy' to not eat meat or drink milk from a cow or eat honey. But seriously, switching these things out will not aide you in weight loss, most of the time replacement items sold for 'convenient' swap-outs are just as- if not more so- 'unhealthy' as their counterparts made from animals. Not to mention, a lot of the time it is VERY difficult to purchase these items in any convenient grocery store or even find vegetarian/vegan friendly restaurants in many, many cities.

A good cut of meat will set you back about as much as processed tofu of the same weight and yeild, depending on where you live, and it isn't pumped full of chemicals, additives and preservatives. Most milk sold will have either a small label or comment stating if it has not been treated with hormones or chemicals (I have yet to find one that says 'This thing is CHOCK FULL O' YO' DAILY HORMONE NEEDS' and actually states otherwise), the cholesterol in egg yolks is not known to clog arteries and is naturally transfat free, Agave nectar- while yummy- is nutritionally the same as honey and probably costs less at a store.

The defense rests.

34 Replies (last)

thank you for posting this. I personally am a pescetarian...yes, a fish eating vegetarian. But I LOVE dairy products and WISH i loved meat, really do. I think that the vegetables we're consuming are more contaminated than the meat is. 

I mean, look at e. coli and that whole outbreak...innocent lettuce? NOPE! look at the pesticides being used to mass produce strawberries and other produce? innocent? NOPE. 

come on people. What is this CRAZY FAD that's got people for no apparent reason wanting to be vegetarian. It makes me mad because I can't make my typical meal choices without people assuming i'm one of the bandwagon-ers who are trying to lose weight so i've given up meat. SO NOT THE CASE. 

Meat, dairy, eggs, and honey will not make you fat any more than vegetables will. Its calories in - calories out right? (well, assuming you're eating whole foods and not processed junk all day). So, why is everyone crazily going to the opposite extreme? 

moderation is key. We evolved consuming these things and not until the advent of trans fats, HFCS, and processed crap did we become obese. We weren't fat when we were eating whole foods (butter included) which did include meat, dairy, cheese, eggs, etc. and they weren't fat free either. 

Chrissy1988- I'm much the same way as well. I don't eat most meat save for fish because it's just easier for me to cook and I am unable to ingest dairy products due to my lactose intolerance. But if I got to a person's home for dinner, by no means am I going to simply turn up my nose when I am told they are having chicken or beef for dinner. It's just rude, and heck, I'm even willing to eat something with cheese if it's served because i don't believe it's right to demand some special plate MADE FOR ME when i go to a person's house.

So glad I'm not alone in thinking this whole thing is a little 'Bodysnatcher'-esque here...

Another pescetarian here. I actually like meat and could eat it again, but I'd like to only eat organic meat when I eat meat again, if ever.

I just wanted to say that since I'm technically a meat eater (since fish is flesh), that I love it and I feel I'm living a very healthy lifestyle now. I cut out the fake meat a long time ago and eat real foods. I have noticed some contempt from some folks on both sides of the fence and I don't get it. The veggie/meat argument is as ongoing as the Christian/Atheist argument in the Lounge lol.

But as always, to each his/her own. I can respect everyone's decision to eat or not eat whatever they want. As a wise man once said, "What you eat don't make me sh**"

well i WON'T eat the things i don't eat but i won't demand special treatment at all, i just make do with whats there. it has nothing to do with these things being weight jeopardizing or me fearing them in any way. i just don't eat it. 

why don't you just take something for the lactose intolerance? 

tikiremy - Those are some powerful words there, haha

I don't even see why there IS a fence there. Both sorces of food provide energy, repair and maintain healthy cell function and repair muscle and all those good things. Food is food is food, correct? The whole thing seems so... silly to argue over, but rarely is there ever anyone to the defense of beef or 'real' milk and ther like, I'm just glad to know I'm not the odd-person-out here in this.

Chrissy1988 - True, I didn't mean to say you did- I'm simply mentioning about people who do (bad experience there but another story for another day). As for the lactose intolerance, I do when i know i'm going to be ingesting something that will not sit well later on, and for me, sometimes it's just less hassle to avoid which foods make me sick and which don't. For example- ice cream and many types of cheeses sit worse with me than other dairy products, and I can have things like the occassional glass of milk or yogurt and be fine. I do like Light vanilla soymilk though...

Wow, that's a lot of time and energy spent worrying about someone else's personal lifestyle choices.

Ambereva - It was not meant to attack those who make a lifestyle choice and who become vegetarians or vegans out of their moral convictions, its simply written because I notice that people seem to avoid these things because they think it will be a quick fix to a weight problem, or because its 'cool' or because they want a title, or because they have some inexplicable fear for such food items.

I'm sorry if you viewed it as an attack to a lifestyle, I did not mean to convey it as such- just to simply speak in defense of animal products as a part of a healthy diet.

Just as one can be a healthy Vegetarian or vegan, one can be a healthy person who eats meat and drinks milk and eats eggs.

Original Post by fenrik_reinsdyr:

Ambereva - It was not meant to attack those who make a lifestyle choice and who become vegetarians or vegans out of their moral convictions, its simply written because I notice that people seem to avoid these things because they think it will be a quick fix to a weight problem, or because its 'cool' or because they want a title, or because they have some inexplicable fear for such food items.

I'm sorry if you viewed it as an attack to a lifestyle, I did not mean to convey it as such- just to simply speak in defense of animal products as a part of a healthy diet.

Just as one can be a healthy Vegetarian or vegan, one can be a healthy person who eats meat and drinks milk and eats eggs.

"I notice that people seem to avoid these things because they think it will be a quick fix to a weight problem, or because its 'cool' or because they want a title, or because they have some inexplicable fear for such food items."

I don't even consider those four topics (weight loss, "cool", title, or fear) when I make my food choices. For instance, I stopped eating beef 20 years ago when I saw the damage that public lands grazing does (and became aware of how it affects other countries). Since then, I became aware of many other (mostly health related) reasons to not eat beef and that just added to my convictions.

OGR

Oldguysrule - Again, this post was not to be aimed as an 'attack' towards people who make the choice to not eat meat as a lifestyle change. I'm also not saying you shouldn't watch your intake of unhealthy foods- fatty red meats being one. Too much of anything is a bad thing, but if someone chooses to have a steak once every month or less or so isn't going to die of colon cancer right after, or is a heartless person for doing so.

Surely you still ingest egg, milk or other meat products?

ALL - I see my initial point was lost somewhere in there. This post is in no way an 'attack' on vegetarians and vegans. it simply bothers me that some people seem to get the idea that all people who eat eggs and meat and milk are ignorant or unhealthy. there's this sweeping generalization on CC that the only way to be healthy is to be a vegetarian or vegan.

Again, I please ask that BEFORE YOU POST ON HERE YOU READ THE INITIAL POST instead of automatically assuming I'm saying 'tofu is bad for you' and yadda yadda.

I'm not

I'm simply saying you can lose weight, be healthy and happy and not be a monster and STILL eat animal products.

 

Original Post by fenrik_reinsdyr:

I'm simply saying you can lose weight, be healthy and happy and not be a monster and STILL eat animal products.

Yes to all of the above!  

Eat meat!  Eat seafood!  Eat dairy products!  Eat eggs!

And live to be a ripe old age.

--------

Or don't eat any of the above.

And still live to be a ripe old age.

Eat and live healthy!  

And if you have Dame Fortune on your side that doesn't hurt either.

Original Post by fenrik_reinsdyr:

Oldguysrule - Again, this post was not to be aimed as an 'attack' towards people who make the choice to not eat meat as a lifestyle change. I'm also not saying you shouldn't watch your intake of unhealthy foods- fatty red meats being one. Too much of anything is a bad thing, but if someone chooses to have a steak once every month or less or so isn't going to die of colon cancer right after, or is a heartless person for doing so.

Surely you still ingest egg, milk or other meat products?

ALL - I see my initial point was lost somewhere in there. This post is in no way an 'attack' on vegetarians and vegans. it simply bothers me that some people seem to get the idea that all people who eat eggs and meat and milk are ignorant or unhealthy. there's this sweeping generalization on CC that the only way to be healthy is to be a vegetarian or vegan.

Again, I please ask that BEFORE YOU POST ON HERE YOU READ THE INITIAL POST instead of automatically assuming I'm saying 'tofu is bad for you' and yadda yadda.

I'm not

I'm simply saying you can lose weight, be healthy and happy and not be a monster and STILL eat animal products.

 

If you look at your initial paragraph, it comes off as an attack. It is saying that people on CC make their choices for foolish reasons. Milk shooting people in a bank? Muggings by chicken breasts? I realize that you were exaggerating, but I mostly see fairly sensible discussions about whether or not to eat meat products on CC.

OGR

PS Yes, I do eat eggs (from chickens that run around in a field and eat insects as well as plants). I also eat rabbits, when they overpopulate my yard due to the fact that I chase the coyotes away (I have cats).

Oh, fine.  You lured me out of lurkerdom.  Well played, again. x)

I had a traumatizing experience as a child wherein I was assaulted by a raw chicken.  I never fully recovered from it.  I still have frightening flashbacks to that fateful day...

I wish oh I wish I could eat dairy.  It breaks me out, though.  I enjoy butter occasionally and will sometimes spring for full-fat ice cream, but otherwise I have to avoid it.  But I would dive head first into a vat of heavy cream and snuggleglomp it forever if I could.

I tried agave.  It tasted like sweet and didn't satisfy me.  I prefer honey.  It actually has a flavor.  Yum.  I also enjoy blackstrap for the same reason.  It actually tastes like something.  So.  Good.

The thought of eating meat nauseates me.  I became veggie partially for the environment, but mostly because if I have to gag down another bite of dead animal, I will do something very disgusting that resembles the effects of an ipecac doubleshot.

I love eggs.  Whole eggs.  Savory yolks and all.  Yum again.

I can't eat soy.  See the above post about meat, but imagine said ipecac administered in the bum.  Gak.  Sorry.  Was that too vivid? >.<;;  I also can't eat gluten for the same reasons.  It gives me a sad.

You bring up several great points, and I had to concur with you, but also share my dissenting perspective. ^_^  

I maintain: Your wit never ceases to make me quite amused.

 

Ok I see your point. I know a lot of people who won't eat anything "processed" or eat any animal products because of the "hormones", but have no problem with all the processed soy faux-meat stuff. I also know quite a few "vegetarians" who still eat vegetable soup with chicken broth, and don't mind that there's a bit of gelatin in their skittles, and still eat dad's chili because its just so good. But for the most part, I think vegetarians and vegans are just sticking to their convictions, trying to do something they think is right. The meat and seafood industry really do have a huge impact on the planet, and the way the animals are raised really can be very cruel. And while I'm sure soybeans also take their toll on the planet, by not eating meat I'm breaking one more bad habit. Every little bit counts. And as for my health, I just got my vitamin and protein levels tested last week and everything was perfectly normal. So I'm going to continue avoiding that chicken breast.

I am not a vegetarian- too lazy.  But while it maybe a fad sometimes if you do it right it is usually a healthy lifestyle.  I think studies have shown that vegetarians do seem to weigh less and have better bmi then meat eating counterparts.  It is not a quick fix but those that I have know work hard in finding foods that provide enough nutrients and protein and are very careful about what they eat.  I think that this seems to help the process of taking care of yourself and feeling healthy that inspires you to keep it up. 

I think that for those in it for quick results that do not understand the dedication required quickly give up because just eating salad greens and plain vegetables does not give enough calories and protein and they will feel bad and crave a burger. 

Personally I wish I could commit to the the lifestyle but I am doing good to get my family to eat any vegetable much less only vegetables and way to lazy to make any more separate meals.  I do that enough as a mom of 3 anyway.

fenrick while I see your point, you set this tread up for failure. Any diet plant or animal/plant based consumed naturally is going to give that person a pretty good base from which to thrive....

All of my animal based foods except dairy are from farmers I personally know, and while there not totally organic these people practice responsible farming and are all part of the slow food movement to which I've been a member for over 20 years  http://www.slowfoodusa.org/     and when ever I can get my plant based foods locally I do, but that can be challenging.....practicing seasonal eating is a good way around getting your vegetables irradiated, flown then trucked in thousands of miles.

The one point I do agree with you is when some people make a total denouncement of any animal protein, thinking they were elevated to a new human understanding of purity..........the problem with that kind of thinking is ,if these people fail, some of them blame themselves, thinking they were failures, which generally fuels any eating disorders they might have had going in....

As a fellow meat-eater and advocate of sensible eating, I say "hear, hear!"

I prefer to structure my dietary choices in a more European way....I don't shun meat, eggs and butter, I just try to consume them in modest amounts. I'd prefer to make up the difference in exercise and yummy veggies....you can't keep weight off without getting your butt off the couch!

My personal downfall is more in the sauce category and my limited budget. Working on that one and harnessing my love of home cooking in the process!

Original Post by without_a_doubt:

As a fellow meat-eater and advocate of sensible eating, I say "hear, hear!"

I prefer to structure my dietary choices in a more European way....I don't shun meat, eggs and butter, I just try to consume them in modest amounts. I'd prefer to make up the difference in exercise and yummy veggies....you can't keep weight off without getting your butt off the couch!

This!

A cow, a chicken, a pig, lamb, ducks...They can all be tortured and treated cruelly through factory farming.

 You can't torture a soybean.

Original Post by phoebe_luvs_smallville:

A cow, a chicken, a pig, lamb, ducks...They can all be tortured and treated cruelly through factory farming.

 You can't torture a soybean.

 I find this quote both frightening and amusing at the same time.

Bet you I can find a way to torture a soybean... just not sure how to do the waterboarding juust yet, haha

But in all seriousness, I completely understand for making the choice to become a vegetarian/vegan for animal rights.

But I'm wondering- if you had your own farm and could harvest your own eggs and milk and could slaughter your own meat through your own means (No 'assembly line' slaughter for cows, chickens don't have beaks removed, you control how happy their lives are) would you eat it then?

This has been on my mind a lot, also. I used to raise chickens and goats and things for eggs and milk so I knew how they were being treated, save for the 'You stupid animal, MOVE!' comments on crabby days, they lived happily. Would a vegetarian/vegan who made the choice for animal rights feel OK with eating an egg that they knew came from a free-range, well fed and happy as a chicken could be? Milk as well?

Modern man with his "assembly-line" killing of animals for consumption is the most humane of all the predators on this planet.  Compare the way we kill animals to how nature does:

  1. A pride of lions killing and beginning to eat a baby elephant while it is not yet dead. 
  2. A pack of wolves hunting down an elk and the fear and pain the elk feels before it finally dies.
  3. Killer whales tossing seals about before they kill them.
  4. Sharks eating its prey sometimes in parts, so it takes agonizing minutes for the prey to die.
  5. Etc., etc.

Domesticated animals being allowed to starve to death, such as dogs or horses, is a cruel thing, indeed. The owners should be arrested.  But nature also allows the very same thing to occur, especially in winter in different parts of the world.  Man should not be allowed to do that; we can't do much about nature, though.

The fact that this "factory" mentality of ours has created mass production of turkeys, chickens, pigs, cattle, etc. is not the cruel thing people often make out. Animals who are fed regularly are perfectly content, get use to crowded conditions, and are not being tortured.  Plus, they are dispatched quickly and humanely.  In general, man is much kinder to his butcher animals than nature is to animals in general.

In cases where people are clearly torturing animals, then, of course, they need to be arrested.

34 Replies (last)
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