Fitness

I lost about 30 lbs by running an average 500 calorie deficit from September through May.  This month I did a sprint triathlon, and don't have the same motivation to maintain a deficit for now.

I'm considering a "lean recomposition" approach through the summer, while I train for another triathlon or two, and would appreciate some feedback on the approach and some specific questions.

I'm not that lean. I weigh 153ish and have 32% body fat.  I'd like to be leaner, but want to improve cross-training performance even more than I want to look ok in a jersey.

I'd like to eat somewhere between maintenance and a mild deficit (200-300 cal).  I've got a food scale, and just got a heart rate monitor, the better to track calories out.

The "lean recomposition" recommendations I've seen focus on high-protein/low carb diets, but I'm not sure that's quite right for a tri crosstrain schedule.  The day after I finished the triathlon, I was very hungry and was craving carbs. I suspect it's because my body needed some more carbs.

After the October triathlon, I'd like to focus more strongly on fat reduction, with a calorie deficit and some boot camp / more intense weight training.

Any feedback on the overall approach, and specific advice?

 I think low-carb diets is mostly a gimmicky way of achieving a calorie deficit without actually counting calories, so I wouldn't worry about it - the important bit about a lean recomposition plans that I've seen is that you're in a calorie balance on workout days and only a mild deficit on non-workout days.

 I'm trying that approach myself at the moment, taking a slight break after spending close to a year on a diet and losing roughly 60lbs in that timeframe. My carb percentage hovers somewhere around 50% most days, and I don't think I would see any faster results from making my workouts feel harder by being carb-deprived.

"non-workout days" - what does that mean?

The Figure Athlete article suggests running a deficit on cardio days but not weight-training days, which would be 3-4 days of deficit. 

Since my performance goals include faster swim/bike/run, and stronger hill climbing, is it really the right thing to do to have more of a deficit on days that I do hills and intervals?

I tend to work out 5 days per week.  One full rest day at least. Maybe a day with only yoga and 4 miles of bike commuting.  A deficit 2 days a week isn't much.

wondering how to tailor this to my goals...

Congratulations on losing 60 lbs in in a year!

Thinking about this a little bit more, there are a few kinds of workout days when I could tolerate a deficit:

* long bike rides (2-4 hours), when I have a hard time eating that many calories, and then eat maintenance the next day. Some day I'll once again have running days with the same property (90-120 min. running), but I'm not close to that now.
* an easy cardio day, where I run, bike or swim for 30 minutes easy.
* a day with only yoga and bicycling for commuting/errands

Using those days for deficit makes more sense than interval/hill days.

Well, that's me being a musclehead again - somewhere in the back of my head only days you push iron 'count' :-P

 Personaly, I'd go with having a deficit on aerobic activity days - since intervals and hill climbing tend to be anaerobic activity they'd get lumped in with weight training on the anaerobic side of thing. Anaerobic activity tends to be carb-dependent and steady-state aerobic activity can use more fat for fuel, so steady state wouldn't suffer as much from having a deficit that day. Which means it depends on how often your're doing hills and intervals - if you're doing that 3xweekly, that's still 4 days to run a mild deficit; minus any strength training days that don't coincide with interval training days.

Cool. The aerobic/anaerobic distinction makes sense.  I'm not totally sure how the workouts will shake out this summer, but my guess is that there will be 2 rest-ish days, 1 long day, 1 easy day, and 3 days with various combinations of weights, intervals and hills.  So that works.

I'm looking forward to eating moderate amounts of bread, cheese, occasional desserts; and working out without worrying about bonking.

p.s. Thanks!

Most of the lean recomposition articles ive read stress the importance of having your low days "light" cardio days, remeber you really can't build muscle if your tearing down the previous days efforts with heavy intervals.

Every day you do a muscle building exercise should be followed by light cardio so you don't undo the good youve done, or at the very very least you should make sure you arn't working the same muscle groups.

Your deficits should be on the light cardio days, im currently re-compositioning, i have lowered my carbs (but not atkins low) this is what my shedual and average macro's (carb/protien/fat) look like.

• Monday - lower body weights - calories 1900 -Macros  50/25/25
• Tuesday - Light cardo - calories -1,400 (500cal deficit) Macros - 20/40/40
• Wednesday - Weights upper body  cals-1900, Macros  50/25/25
• Thursday -  Hiit (becasue it follows Upper body im not hurting my legs)- calories -1,400 (500cal deficit) Macros - 20/40/40
• Friday - Weights - Full Body cals-1900, Macros  50/25/25
• Saturday - Light cardo (not gym based, usually take the kids th park, go swiming some other fun "activity") - calories -1,400 (500cal deficit) Macros - 20/40/40
• Sunday - Rest Day - calories -1,400 (500cal deficit) Macros - 20/40/40

 

So, folk who are doing lean recomposition, how are you measuring results?

When I was keeping a 500 cal deficit, I'd weigh daily and look for weight loss of 4 lbs per month.  This was consistent, even though the weight loss came in "chunks" with periodic plateaus.

In lean recomposition, what to look for?  I know the fitness results I'm looking for.   Should I be using measurements?  Body fat percentage? I have a Taylor scale that has inconsistent body fat results from day to day, so I don't want to rely on it.  Should I get a Tanita? A professional test? (seems like a lot of trouble).

What are you folk doing?

 Covert Bailey's home body fat test, mostly :) Which is to say, I use a tape measure to see that I'm still making progress in the direction I want, though with agonizing slowness compared to the effects of dieting and working out a year ago :)

Original Post by melkor:

 Covert Bailey's home body fat test, mostly :) Which is to say, I use a tape measure to see that I'm still making progress in the direction I want, though with agonizing slowness compared to the effects of dieting and working out a year ago :)

actually melkor, my friend & i found some interesting results using that calculation. she has an apple shape. great legs, not so great on top. im the opposite. i found that calculation to be seemingly correct for me but she believes she has more body fat than it stated. i think its because the calculations only really takes your lower body into account.  but i know once you do it you can use it to see to track progress.

i use measurements as well.  i weigh myself once a monthly...at most.  in the article by jen heath, she reminds that fat loss happens in chunks (no pun intended).  so if you don't see results for a bit, try not to get frustrated and abandon ship...because one day you'll just wake up and be a leaner version of you.  i found that to be 100% true.  it makes it difficult to gauge whether what you're doing today is "helping," but do your best to just kind of bury yourself in a consistent routine, track your measurements, and trust that one day it will all "work."  give it some time. 

OK, this is probably a question that you guys have answered a bzillion times but are you all saying that on days that I do my weight lifting I should be eating as many calories as I burn and then on alternate days when I run I eat 500 cal. less than my burn....for weight/fat loss????

Also, what should I eat before a weight workout to get max results and how soon after do I need to eat? p.s. I cannot eat dairy

this info is new to me so thank you....I never see results so this is hopeful

Yup, that's what a lean recomposition looks like - you only lose weight Very Slowly while doing it since you're only having a deficit 3-4 days a week, but when you don't have a lot of fat to lose or you've been dieting for a long while it's good to give your body a break. Besides, even if you don't have a calorie deficit at all you'd still grow leaner if you increase your activity level; the energy turnover in your body from exercise uses some bodyfat for fuel, and in a calorie balance that fat doesn't get replaced.

 Which means that while you might not lose scale weight very fast by only having a weekly deficit of 1500-2000, you'd still lose fat mass on a regular basis.

 If you're already within a normal BMI range and don't need to drop scale weight at all like Leleia lean recomposition is where it's at - actual dieting isn't very productive in the lower end of a healthy BMI. Or if you've been dieting for a while (12-16 weeks) it can be a good idea to take a break from hardcore dieting and do lean recomposition or even maintenance for a while to let your body regain some equilibrium before returning to a stricter dieting regime. It's also better for athletic perfomance - your body has limited adaptive and recuperative resources, and dieting claims most of them. So if you're looking to improve athletic performance a lean recomposition is better for you than a straight-up diet.

 It's not a good strategy for anyone who are just starting out, aren't very close to their goal weight or who don't have athletic performance goals - it works, but for the initial dieting phase you're better off with a traditional diet.

 So whether following a plan like this is a good idea or not depends on your individual goals and where you are in your weight loss journey. However, if you haven't been seeing results with the traditional dieting approach, trying something different is definitely a good idea :)

As for pre/post-workout nutrition, check out What (and when) to eat before/after a workout? - dairy ain't neccesary as long as you get some protein and carbs pre/post-workout. A random soy protein product that I found by Googling soy protein would work. (There's nothing special about the protein in powders, bars and shakes - it's strictly a matter of convenience. Well, speed of absortion makes a difference for immediate post-workout nutrition, but protein synthesis is elevated for at least 24 hours post-workout and regular food works just as well for that. It's just that immediately post-workout getting some protein to your muscles fast gives you even better results.)  

Anyone have any links on info for lean recomposition?  I am not finding much on google (other than this thread) and I'd like to read more about it.  Never knew there was a term for this.  I have been eating like this for a long time, unofficially, and will lose .3-.5 pounds per week if I am paying attention.  I was able to keep most of my muscle as well.  I started eating this way because my workout schedule and a daily calorie deficit were not able to coexist.

Right now, all formal weight training is on hold (tapering for an endurance event and also broke my finger).  Currently, I am not in a deficit for the same reasons, but my bodyfat is still trending down to 13.5-14% and I am gaining maybe .2 pounds per week (which I assume to be muscle/water-glycogen stuff).

For athletic performance, I'm finding that it feels better to eat maintenance the day before a hard workout than the day of. I'm not sure about the relative impact on fat loss, though.

Have you read Jen Heath's article?  She indicates that it's common for some people, particularly those who train in the afternoon or evening, to have schedule their maintenance days the day before a rigorous workout.  my guess is that if your body is asking for energy and using it, you're doing just fine.  the goal of the program is to optimize your energy for the times when you need it most and that sounds exactly like what you're doing. 

Heres links to the jen heath articles ... use the first one to gain some good muscle mass to start up with and then the second to lean out.

http://www.figureathlete.com/article/bodybuil ding/lets_get_jacked&cr=

http://www.figureathlete.com/article/bodybuil ding/lets_get_jacked_part_ii&cr=

I went straight to part 2 because i already had a good amount of muscle, i was at about 24% body fat ... i've lost about 1.5% body fat since i started (3 weeks ago) and over 1 inch from all my vitals .. i'd really recomend it because it's REALLY working.

Thanks laura for the reference and leiela your example is inspiring. 

So far this is frustrating, for the last two days I've woken up hungry at 4am, after days of respective deficits of 500 calories (swim intervals; previous day was maintenance) and 200 calories (rest day).  I'm getting plenty of fiber and protein, and decent amounts of fat so it's not carb-driven hunger.  What I should be doing is just eating til I stop being hungry, under the assumption that my body will get used to the new level of intensity soon enough.

waking up at 4am hungry doesn't sound like a fun side effect of trying this new plan.  it's hard to say what might be going on with your hunger without seeing what you're eating.  i know that i experienced some raging thirst issues that coincided with starting this program.  carbs attract water in the body, so cutting carbs usually means losing water weight...and that left me super thirsty.  so one source of your hunger may be related to thirst issues.  i suggest working extra hard to hydrate around the big exercise days.  if the hunger continues, you'll want to look harder at your food.  low cal/high bulk foods like green veggies can help and you can eat those without abandon.  if the hunger is real, though, you'll probably want to up your calories.  it looks like you're doing lots and lots of exercise (and maybe even started a new, serious training program?), so adding more calories may be just what the doctor ordered.  the whole point of this program is that you shouldn't be starving yourself, so if it feels like that's what's going on you do need to tweak something.

in summary, try to finesse the hunger first with water and bulky low-cal foods.  if your body sees through your tricks and still demands food, give it what it's asking for. 

I find the low carb days pretty hellish my body seriously hates them i spend the day craving everything i shouldnt and its wierd but no sooner have finnished one meal im thinking about the next it's very frustrating, i spend te day starving. 

However high carb/cal days im 100% fine ... as i get the same amount of protien and fat and add the extra cal's in the form of carbs which makes high days yummy i even get to splurge abit because i get to eat maintainence.

Sadly i think the whole idea of the calorie/carb cycling is that your body can't adjust to it, and it can't get used to it.... I guess thats why it supposed to be better than things like atkins etc ... with atkins your body gets used to the new amounts of carbs and when you start "eating" them again the weight piles back on because your bodies forgotten how to deal with them.

With carb cycling you starve your body of carbs enough days of the week to force your body to break down fat, and have the duel benifit of giving your body carbs for muscle building when it "needs" them and eating carbs often enough that it can't forget how to process them.

All in all i think low carb/cal days are always going to be days of starvation, i hope im wrong but 3 weeks in im still finding them horrid.

I struggle on though as i have the comfort of knowing its only a few days a week and a high carb/cal day is just around the corner... which has to be easier to deal with than atkins where you have to go though weeks of starvation before your body adjusts.

 

i should add that i'm not 100% strict on this plan, since i don't really have true "rest" days; i have days when my lifting is less intense and those i select for my low-er carb days.  i don't go as low with the carbs as the plan would recommend, because i'm still exercising on the lighter days and my cardio is more substantial than the plan would call for.  so for me, it's low-er carb and high-er carb days.  maybe that's why i never get attacked by hunger.  i've still experienced some "success" with the plan because it's still an alteration of my typical carb intake and both my low-er and high-er carb days have a lower percentage of carbs than someone not on the plan would typically have.  i also plan my low-er carb days on days when i'm pretty busy and don't have time to think about wanting more carbs.  i'm not sure if you have the luxury of planning your training schedule in that manner, but it could be worth a shot.   

leiela, i'd be starving too if i had to eat 1300 calories any day, so i think the issue with your hunger is more about the calores than the carbs.  that's just a guess.