Is Anyone Here Involved in "Fat Acceptance"?
I'm really getting curious about all the different people and groups that are represented here.
I don't recall anyone ever piping up about being involved in the "fat acceptance" movement, but I could have overlooked it. Or maybe they are shy?
I know this is a site geared towards weight loss and a healthy lifestyle, but I would think that there might be some fat activists (that is probably so un-pc) lurking around here.
I'm very curious about the movement. What do you guys think of it? Have you been involved to any degree?
I would love to meet and talk to someone who is involved in these efforts. It seems radical to me, and definitely very radically different than my own attitude towards my body and fat in general. Maybe it would do me some good to talk to someone on the way, way other side of the fence.
Fat acceptance? I guess heart disease, diabetes and possibly setting yourself up for an early grave is considered sexy now...
You'd be surprised just hot many women in fact accept and even flaunt it
I accept that fat is a tissue in the body that serves as energy reserve. Given that I live in a modern society and have access to food regularly, I don't need much of it. I just want enough of it for other functions such as insulation etc..
I neither condemn or glorify fat. Treating it as any thing beyond what it really is doesn't make sense to me.
Well the media's current ideal of beauty is being so underweight your organs fail and your hair falls out right? I mean it's really just the opposite extreme, it's more the media has tried to get us to believe that being crazy thin is something to be desired and that being fat is practically a mortal sin. I'm slap bang in the middle of this debate. I have no problem with whatever people want to do with their body and if they want to be fat and be happy with it, wonderful for them! If someone wants to starve themselves into being tiny and underweight go for it! It's none of my business. It's their body not mine! How dare I judge someone based on their weight whether they be fat or thin. I think fat acceptance isn't a bad thing because I think if people want to be happy with their bodies being that way then it's their own choice. I may not find it attractive but no one needs to please my personal ideal of beauty. Wouldn't life be wonderful it we could accept how we looked. Also I believe fat acceptance doesn't mean staying fat or not trying to lose weight, it just means the person is accepting to love their body no matter what. This in fact might make someone decide to eat healthier because they want to appreciate their body.
edit: my feeling is that everyone has a right to feel wonderful and comfortable in their own body regardless of weight.
I've been thinking and trying to figure out why Fat Acceptance seems so much more extreme to me than the obvious societal and media pushes for people (women especially) to be as thin as possible.
Perhaps it's because they deliver their message in a more extreme way?
I can't think of any movements or organizations designed specifically to promote thinness. There are pro-ana websites, for sure, but are there pro-ana meetings and clubs and demonstrations?
Question for the mods: One of the guidelines for posting here is that there be no content promoting an eating disorder, and it cites pro-ana pro-mia, but what about the opposite extreme? If a person involved in the fat acceptance movement were to post in favor of gorging (without purging) and eating to extremes and avoiding exercise in order to maintain an overweight body type...would it be modded?
Hum that is an interesting point. Well I suppose maybe it's so different from what we normally see in the media maybe it feels more extreme? Since it's the opposite of what is portrayed in the media then we notice it more?
Well I mean the modelling industry is pretty much designed to promote thinness but I do get what you mean. It's not specifically designed to promote thinness. But I suppose being underweight and being pro-ana isn't the same thing?
Maybe part of the Fat Acceptance movement is they want it to be very extreme to catch our attention?
well....I've tangled with fat acceptance folks, as the FA movement tends to run into various bits of feminism. Needless to say as an outsider who has spent some talking talking to these folks, there are facets, like any other movement.
On one end of the spectrum, you have HAES (Health At Every Size). These folks generally promote the idea that skinny doesn't not equal healthy, and that all body shapes can be healthy. So, a size 14 woman may be considered 'fat' and 'unhealthy' to the mainstream, but that size 14 woman could be solid muscle and an expert in judo. Essentially don't hassle larger folks, they may not be visually appealing but they very well could meet all the internal markers for health (bp, cholesterol, blood glucose, etc) Here's their website if you're interested: http://www.haescommunity.org/
On the other end of the spectrum you have militant Fat Activist. In terms of the militant factions I can't find a cohesive website detailing their...ethos...but like most fundamentalist they have a tendency to go off into crazyville (i.e. the belief that doctors/gov't are colluding to send fat people to interment camps? mmhmm) Overall FA types are mainly concerned with discrimination; legal, workplace, educational, etc. they aren't' too concerned with the medical aspect of obesity, mainly just ending all manners of discrimination towards fat people. Here's their website: http://www.naafaonline.com/dev2/
Other than that most of the FA sphere is comprised of snarky fat feminist who like to crusade against mainstream beauty ideals, the patriarchy, creep-o fat fetishists, vanity sizing, abuse of photoshop, etc. etc. Their blogs are full of sycophants and are heavily moderated, so good luck saying anything other than fawning praise. http://www.therotund.com/ and http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/ are some good blogs to check out in the FA feminist persuasion.
my two cents: the HAES movement is laudable; there really is no need for everyone two strive to be a size 2, and if you are completely healthy (per the doc) at a bigger size/weight, then 'eff the haters and go on wit yo' bad self. NAAFA does have an admirable goal of trying to end fat discrimination; if we're to be honest, good people then there is no need to discriminate against ANYONE on a legal basis. We can't control physical attraction to people, but we don't have to stoop so low as to abuse a fat person simply because they are...fat. People are people right?
Beyond that, most everyone else in the FA sphere are full of hate, snark, crazy, and grudges. Do not tangle with them, for they are legion.
The problem I have with the Fat Acceptance movement is that it is promoting an equally unhealthy way of eating food. Being fat, I'm not talking healthy BMI here, is inherently dangerous to ones health. By being in denial of one's need to lose weight, it promotes the advice that moderation is in fact stupid.
I believe that everyone has different body types, but please do tell me that being 200 pounds at 5'4 is healthy. Don't spit on my cupcake and tell me it's frosting.
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Question for the mods: One of the guidelines for posting here is that there be no content promoting an eating disorder, and it cites pro-ana pro-mia, but what about the opposite extreme? If a person involved in the fat acceptance movement were to post in favor of gorging (without purging) and eating to extremes and avoiding exercise in order to maintain an overweight body type...would it be modded?
Promotion of starvation diets or habits that exhibit signs of an eating disorder ("pro-ana", "pro-mia", etc.) is prohibited.
pro-ana and pro-mia are by far the more common variety of advocacy - but if someone were advocating gorging and eating to extremes, that would be a sign of binge eating disorder.
And there are other symptoms that signal disordered eating (ED-NOS Eating Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified).
All promotion of harmful practices or habits is prohibited.
nomo
volunteer mod
Thanks Vonapathy. That was really helpful.
I'm on board with the healthy at every size thing, for sure. I'm beginning to be able to focus more on fitness and physical health rather than my visual weight and pants size, which is rather liberating.
So...we thinks feminism plays a pretty big role in Fat Acceptance?
Thanks for all of the info Vonapathy. It's really interesting. I didn't actually know that there were different forms of fat acceptance movements, although it would make a lot of sense. I've never really seen like Fat Acceptance groups promoting gorging on unhealthy food and such though but maybe that's just what I've seen from my cosy little internet screen. Also I'm living in Ireland where we don't have the same obesity rates as other countries so fat acceptance groups are far less common here. However there has been a lot of the Healthy At Every Size movements lately, which I think is really good since it can be true for a some people.
Although I don't like being told that someone who is obese is completely healthy it is a case that a friend of mine is very overweight and she hasn't had a single health complication. I don't think it's far for her to have to hate her body but very thin people (who aren't ana, as that's a mental thing and has very little to do with actual weight) but are underweight and "healthy" ie. they have no complications to do with being underweight yet are told they're beautiful. The case I'm provided is rare I know but both of these people don't have currently health problems associated with their weight but one is told to hate their body and the other is told to love it. I don't think it's any of my business to make any judgements on people based on their weight.
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Thanks Vonapathy. That was really helpful.
I'm on board with the healthy at every size thing, for sure. I'm beginning to be able to focus more on fitness and physical health rather than my visual weight and pants size, which is rather liberating.
So...we thinks feminism plays a pretty big role in Fat Acceptance?
I also think that the real discrimination that overweight people face has a part in it too. I've been a variety of sizes several times in my life for different reasons. There is actualy discrimination and prejudice that fat people face just for being fat. I might be losing my job in the next 9-12 months. As soon as I realized this was a real possibility, I started to make losing weight a higher priority. It will be harder to get hired at my age and overweight.
Original Post by teatoddy:
The problem I have with the Fat Acceptance movement is that it is promoting an equally unhealthy way of eating food. Being fat, I'm not talking healthy BMI here, is inherently dangerous to ones health.
My point exactly.
Being overweight shows a certain disregard for your health and well-being. If you don't care enough about your body to be a normal weight, how do you think that reflects on you as a person when someone meets you? If you show up to an interview and you are clearly overweight the first thing that the interviewer is going to think is that you don't care about yourself. (s)he will wonder if that means you don't care enough about other things which could affect your job performance. It's like showing up to an interview looking unkempt. You won't get the job, if the interview at all.
Original Post by armandounc:
Being overweight shows a certain disregard for your health and well-being. If you don't care enough about your body to be a normal weight, how do you think that reflects on you as a person when someone meets you? If you show up to an interview and you are clearly overweight the first thing that the interviewer is going to think is that you don't care about yourself. (s)he will wonder if that means you don't care enough about other things which could affect your job performance. It's like showing up to an interview looking unkempt. You won't get the job, if the interview at all.
In theory.
But in practice, more than two thirds of all Americans are overweight or obese. So the odds are that the person interviewing you will also be overweight or obese - maybe bigger than you - making you look like you care more about yourself than the interviewer does (sticking with your logic).
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Thanks Vonapathy. That was really helpful.
I'm on board with the healthy at every size thing, for sure. I'm beginning to be able to focus more on fitness and physical health rather than my visual weight and pants size, which is rather liberating.
So...we thinks feminism plays a pretty big role in Fat Acceptance?
Indeed. If feminism and fat acceptance were venn diagrams, there would be a large overlap. To wit, 34 years ago a psychologist, Susie Orbach, wrote a book titled Fat Is a Feminist Issue. And thus Fat Acceptance and second wave feminism were in tandem, and laid the ground work for the fat-o-sphere populated by FA heroes like Kate Harding and Marilyn Wann.
A whole lot of navel gazing surrounding body politics and The Beauty Myth (c/o Naomi Wolf)
At this point in time it is fairly hard to extract fat acceptance from feminism, at least in the acedemic, 'I-have-too-much-time-on-my-hands-so-I-blog' sense. Are there gender neutral fat acceptance enclaves? I'm sure, but they either have a weak web presence or I'm suffering from confirmation bias in the blogs I visit. (i.e. feminist leaning)
Original Post by vonapathy:
Indeed. If feminism and fat acceptance were venn diagrams, there would be a large overlap. To wit, 34 years ago a psychologist, Susie Orbach, wrote a book titled Fat Is a Feminist Issue. And thus Fat Acceptance and second wave feminism were in tandem, and laid the ground work for the fat-o-sphere populated by FA heroes like Kate Harding and Marilyn Wann.
A whole lot of navel gazing surrounding body politics and The Beauty Myth (c/o Naomi Wolf)
At this point in time it is fairly hard to extract fat acceptance from feminism, at least in the acedemic, 'I-have-too-much-time-on-my-hands-so-I-blog' sense. Are there gender neutral fat acceptance enclaves? I'm sure, but they either have a weak web presence or I'm suffering from confirmation bias in the blogs I visit. (i.e. feminist leaning)
I wonder is this because women are judged much more harshly for being overweight then men are? I would personally feel that they are. I was reading an article (I think) that was saying that even the feelings associated with men being over weight and women being overweight are different, even among women. Apparently a lot of women feel that an over weight man, if he's in a suit, is assumed to be overweight because he's successful and doesn't have time to take care of his body but women are almost always judged as being lazy by both women and men when they're overweight. Now this was a women writing the article so I don't know how much of it is true but it was certainly an interesting read.
Original Post by armandounc:
Being overweight shows a certain disregard for your health and well-being. If you don't care enough about your body to be a normal weight, how do you think that reflects on you as a person when someone meets you? If you show up to an interview and you are clearly overweight the first thing that the interviewer is going to think is that you don't care about yourself. (s)he will wonder if that means you don't care enough about other things which could affect your job performance. It's like showing up to an interview looking unkempt. You won't get the job, if the interview at all.
I don't think that this is why people discriminate against fat people in the workplace. When it comes to employment, people prefer tall people to short people, pretty people to ugly people as well, and it's not like tall people worked harder to get tall and pretty people worked harder to have better genetics. People are shallow "either consciously or subconsciously" and want to be around people who look good.
In my experience, many hard-working people are fat in part because they spend all of their time working at their desks and eating takeout instead of exercising or preparing healthy meals. Many people I know got progressively fatter in college because of this, and they weren't lazy in school. Perhaps if they had spent less time doing work and more time working out, they wouldn't have gained so much weight.
I struggle with the idea of employment discrimination in regards to overweight people.
Actually, I struggle with the idea of "equal opportunity" altogether, but let's talk about fat people.
If I were an employer, and I had to choose between two people with the same level of education and experience and job related skills, and one was a normal weight and one was overweight, I would probably pick the normal weight candidate. Is that discrimination?
Idk, I feel like being overweight implies a lot of things about a person. I know that when I was overweight, it was because I was horribly lazy and unhealthy and unmotivated. Those are not ideal qualities for a potential employee. When I am taking care of myself and exercising and being healthy, I am not overweight.
Are employers (or interviewers) really expected not to make any assumptions or judgements about a person based on their appearance and the way they present themselves? That would be really difficult, I think.
You should also take into account that NAAFA is in fact purely about the fetishization of fat, gainer/feeder pairings and all the other mentally disturbed behavior filed under "creepy chubby chasers" in the HAES-sphere, so the Venn diagram between the core NAAFA and Feminism is about 0% overlap, and if the HAES-folk weren't concerned that they'd undermine their own messaging they'd do a better job of distancing themselves from it.
'Course, I have issues with Harding too, because she's fundamentally wrong about a lot of her assumptions about how the metabolism works what with the way she goes on and on about how the metabolism drops following deliberate weight loss and you're functionally anorectic and your body will just keep on fighting to regain your weight until you're heavier than when you started your diet. Because it's not as if there's one type of exercise that prevents a drop in BMR following calorie restricted diets.
