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Here ya go, Hata. Teach us.

344 Replies (last)
Original Post by hatamoto:

So far, swallow is decisively the preferred state...

But was there ever really a question of that? I thought the question was more "is she a rude b*tch that the guy would rather leave than compromise with if she prefers not to?"

There haven't been many comments from women saying that they won't, but more that they will not be forced to do so just to keep a man and/or to keep from being 'rude'. And if they are forced to make that choice then the man is better gone.

Original Post by michaelduff:

Original Post by hatamoto:

@michael: That much I can agree with. I reject outright the idea that she seems to profer, though, that the source of such "darkness" is entirely the pervue of men, or that the more extreme stuff she's focused on is a ubiquitous feature of the masculine sexual landscape. It doesn't take more than hooking up with one girl into blood play to know that the feminine mind has cracks and corners that are every bit as dark.

 I think the cultural handcuffs on men are probably more a complete cultural jail for womenfolk.  Luckily a few are able to escape from Alcatraz

 Very true. Society generally accepts men to have a strong/varied sexual appetite (example: rake, womanizer) where as women with strong appetites run the risk of being slutty and/or a skank. But that's a whole other discussion :)

Original Post by rachd:

Original Post by hatamoto:

So far, swallow is decisively the preferred state...

But was there ever really a question of that? I thought the question was more "is she a rude b*tch that the guy would rather leave than compromise with if she prefers not to?"

There haven't been many comments from women saying that they won't, but more that they will not be forced to do so just to keep a man and/or to keep from being 'rude'. And if they are forced to make that choice then the man is better gone.

 THANK YOU.

Original Post by nasuoni:

Original Post by rachd:

Original Post by hatamoto:

So far, swallow is decisively the preferred state...

But was there ever really a question of that? I thought the question was more "is she a rude b*tch that the guy would rather leave than compromise with if she prefers not to?"

There haven't been many comments from women saying that they won't, but more that they will not be forced to do so just to keep a man and/or to keep from being 'rude'. And if they are forced to make that choice then the man is better gone.

 THANK YOU.

The question was stated as follows:

I've been in a discussion on another forum about the overall distressing lack of oral skills in the modern woman, and the discussion has taken an interesting turn. To help prove (or disprove!) a point I've made, I'd be interested in people's opinions about oral sex: specifically the 'spit or swallow' debate.

Please vote in the poll, and in comments, if you could, expand on WHY you prefer that option. Also, how would it affect your sex or relationship status if she doesn't want to do what you prefer?

I think a lot of women are really not "in the know" when it comes to why guys like BJs, why they like to finish in the ways they do, and how important it is to us generally. It's an opportunity to clear up some deeply held misconceptions.

Thanks!

~Hata

... and as a matter of fact...

I do *dearly* love the blowjobs though, I wouldnt classify a crappy ending as a deal breaker for me, but I would classify it of major value, if she didnt make up for it in other ways maybe it would've been a deal breaker

And...

Not a deal breaker:
*if they don't swallow (you can train them)

Deal breaker:
*if they take it in their mouth and make a fuss/drama about ti
*if they don't make an effort
*if they don't give blow jobs

And also...

- swallow - but swallow and like it! just as testy said.
- don't swallow if you actually hate it. and don't fake orgasms, either.
- spitting it out is disappointing and anti-climactic, breaks the blissful state afterwards - don't do it if it's so horrible!
- a deal breaker if she gets vocal about it just after I came. seriously, girl - what are you thinking?

Notice the theme: If I'm not worth your time, don't bother. If it's going to cause drama, don't bother. I'm sure you've read up above where a guy considers it like a "spit in the face". To men, this matters... perhaps it's not ALL important, but clearly VERY important. The fact that you don't recognize it doesn't diminish its importance. Trying to do a little hand-wavey nonsense to make it seem less consequential isn't going to make it so. If I've learned anything from this, it's that I underestimated the intensity of response. Historically, I've found it annoying... for others, it's like the worst insult imaginable.

Additionally, claiming that women are 'forced' to do so is just misandrist bullsh**. Women are no more 'forced' to do it than men are 'forced' to go down on a woman - if it's necessary for her sexual satisfaction and he's not delivering, he should quite rightly be kicked to the curb. Why should men be expected to accept that situation without complaint then, when the option to kick her to the curb and move to a more sexually compatible woman is available?

Original Post by rachd:

 Very true. Society generally accepts men to have a strong/varied sexual appetite (example: rake, womanizer) where as women with strong appetites run the risk of being slutty and/or a skank. But that's a whole other discussion :)

One that's already been had here, ages ago. Personally, I don't believe there is such a thing as a slut, only women with more or less experience exploring their options. Kind of pointless women calling each other sluts now that women generally have far more sexual freedom than they did a generation or two ago, but I suppose old habits die hard... and die strange. Check out the movie "Easy A" sometime to see the (hilariously dramatized but) odd dichotomy of being considered a "promiscuous" teen.

Additionally, claiming that women are 'forced' to do so is just misandrist bullsh**. Women are no more 'forced' to do it than men are 'forced' to go down on a woman - if it's necessary for her sexual satisfaction and he's not delivering, he should quite rightly be kicked to the curb. Why should men be expected to accept that situation without complaint then, when the option to kick her to the curb and move to a more sexually compatible woman is available?

Maybe 'forced' was too strong a word. Not forced physically...feeling forced as in "if you don't you're rude and not worth my superb sexual prowess, so I'm going to leave you to find someone who will...no matter how good you are at other bedtime activities"

However to say that all women are rude and/or not good at BJs if they don't is a generalization and one that your findings don't seem to support.  The deal breaker isn't if they don't swallow, it's if they don't make an effort and/or just don't give BJ's at all.

It seems to be general concensus from your other forum that #1 yes men in general prefer swallowing but #2 more so he prefers that the woman enjoys the act and #3 swallowing is not the deal breaker

Seems like a pretty common theme...they're gonna take a BJ without swallowing to no BJ at all :)

Obviously a couple should be compatible in the bedroom. If there's any act (not just swallowing) that one person significantly prefers and the other is unwilling, that could spell trouble.

It comes down to, if swallowing is that important to the dude than he should find someone that enjoys and/or doesn't mind the act. Same goes with a woman.

Original Post by hatamoto:

Original Post by rachd:

 Very true. Society generally accepts men to have a strong/varied sexual appetite (example: rake, womanizer) where as women with strong appetites run the risk of being slutty and/or a skank. But that's a whole other discussion :)

One that's already been had here, ages ago. Personally, I don't believe there is such a thing as a slut, only women with more or less experience exploring their options. Kind of pointless women calling each other sluts now that women generally have far more sexual freedom than they did a generation or two ago, but I suppose old habits die hard... and die strange. Check out the movie "Easy A" sometime to see the (hilariously dramatized but) odd dichotomy of being considered a "promiscuous" teen.

 Oh I definitely think there's such a thing as a slut, male or female. I just don't necessarily think it's a bad thing Tongue out Just a lifestyle decision.

Heh, fair enough. I've always seen the word "slut" used mostly as a form of girl-on-girl violence. For men, it's completely content-free if not a mild compliment.

For women, it seems like any woman who "cheapens" the traditional lock on sex is doing damage to women everywhere... how dangerous is a threat of withholding sex if a guy can just walk out and tap the girl next door? Any woman who did that is then instantly reviled... so "slut", it's like swahili for "traitor to all womankind".

But that's from decades ago, when there was social ramifications to being sexually adventurous. Doesn't seem viable any more since the 60s happened. It's just a word with barely any context now.

Original Post by hatamoto:

 

To men, this matters... perhaps it's not ALL important, but clearly VERY important. The fact that you don't recognize it doesn't diminish its importance. Trying to do a little hand-wavey nonsense to make it seem less consequential isn't going to make it so. If I've learned anything from this, it's that I underestimated the intensity of response. Historically, I've found it annoying... for others, it's like the worst insult imaginable.

 But this is where communication comes in, no? I'm not saying that a guy doesn't consider it a slap in the face, but that's something you need to know beforehand. Personally that's something I want to know before going down :)

True that. Could be dangerous though... at the start of a relationship, that sort of thing is very good stuff to know. What if you're a couple years into it, or married with kids, and suffering silently with an unsatisfactory sex life for the whole time because of other things that seemed like a higher priority at the time?

Reveal it and potentially put your relationship in crisis. Don't talk about it, continue suffering until you either figure out how to sublimate or it breaks out as an affair or something. Sucky either way.

I don't understand why some people try to minimalize issues of sexual incompaibility, or act like it's something that has to be 'coped with'. Stuff like that festers; better off knowing early and moving on to someone more compatible 'cuz there's a good bet it's going to happen anyways, weeks or months or however long down the line. Just with more pain and drama because of the emotional investment. I couldn't imagine how soul crushing that would be over a period of years or decades.

Now lets get in a boy-girl-boy-girl circle and sing kumbaya.

In other news the Israelis and the Palestinians are now best friends.Tongue out

Original Post by michaelduff:

Now lets get in a boy-girl-boy-girl circle and sing kumbaya.

In other news the Israelis and the Palestinians are now best friends.

 OK OK.

*Holsters Desert Eagle, puts fighting knife in ankle sheath, and sings with southern twang

kumbaya mah lawd, kumbaya...

Original Post by muttlover:

... Guys, can you please do your girl a favor? Pineapple makes sperm sweeter. I forget what foods make sperm bitter *goes to google*, but PLEASE. DON'T. EAT THEM. if you're expecting to get a licking from your partner.

 Diet makes a difference....do not eat asparagus!!!!!!!!

Original Post by kae03:

Original Post by muttlover:

... Guys, can you please do your girl a favor? Pineapple makes sperm sweeter. I forget what foods make sperm bitter *goes to google*, but PLEASE. DON'T. EAT THEM. if you're expecting to get a licking from your partner.

 Diet makes a difference....do not eat asparagus!!!!!!!!

 Hmm... this explains my penchant for cooking beef curry with pineapple and coconut milk.

So far, swallow is decisively the preferred state... and the most common comment left is not the mechanics, but rather the acceptance/rejection as a symbolic act. Vis. this from a 29 year old Canadian guy (from someone in toronto, apparently):

So it's really not about the pleasure but about the emotional state of men, and society tabs us as the unstable ones. Really not swallowing their wad is rejection. Undecided  I kind of feel sorry for you guys now, seriously.

Men prefer it if women swallow????

Why was I never informed of this????

 

 

oh yeah, that's right: Duh.

Speaking of oral. A well cushioned Sonicare tooth brush works well in a pinch.

I've been using a mouth wash specially made for braces, and my ortho said I take excellent care of my teeth.  I'm great at oral!!

Original Post by r4eboxer:

So far, swallow is decisively the preferred state... and the most common comment left is not the mechanics, but rather the acceptance/rejection as a symbolic act. Vis. this from a 29 year old Canadian guy (from someone in toronto, apparently):

So it's really not about the pleasure but about the emotional state of men, and society tabs us as the unstable ones. Really not swallowing their wad is rejection.   I kind of feel sorry for you guys now, seriously.

 What I've gathered from the last 10 or so years of dating is that men are in fact more emotionally unstable then women. I'm guessing that if everything I did in life was indirectly connected to my vag I'd be a wreck too.

Original Post by mjsophia:

I've been using a mouth wash specially made for braces, and my ortho said I take excellent care of my teeth.  I'm great at oral!!

Wish I could say the same. I can't afford to go to the dentist. Ick.

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